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Author Topic: Shake and rattle Take off  (Read 3259 times)

Offline jackpilot

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Shake and rattle Take off
« on: February 04, 2017, 04:50:37 PM »
During each and every real take-off   the cockpit shakes and rattles like mad and steadies as soon as airborne.
My question is how to make this happen with the sim ?

Buttkickers are not the solution, the whole plateform has to be shaken. The stickshaker principle (unbalanced rotating part) could be applied. How ?
Would be a MAJOR plus for immersion !

Thinking caps on.........
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 04:52:14 PM by jackpilot »


Jack

Offline navymustang

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 05:07:48 PM »
The thought is nice, but here is the downside.  Most if not all of us build sims that are "stationary".  Meaning - the structures, the connectors, the fasteners, etc. are all designed to just hold with no movement. You go moving everything around, at high frequency (say 30 or more Hz) and after a while you will get failure after failure.

Stick with the seat shakers, it really does add a nice amount of realism.
Building a full scale 737-800 AATD for home use. Majority of hardware is from Sismo Solutions, software is Prosim under P3D. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors
Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

Offline FredK

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 05:10:24 PM »
The combination of P3D with SimA gives a pretty good representation of the audio part for rattle noises and pavement thumping on take-off and landing particularly if you have multiple sound module/speaker channels setup.  I also have my bass sounds channeled through a sub-woofer right behind my pedestal which does provide some vibrational feel in addition to the audio.

Fred K
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Offline jackpilot

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 07:56:41 PM »
The thought is nice, but here is the downside.  Most if not all of us build sims that are "stationary".  ... You go moving everything around, at high frequency (say 30 or more Hz) ...
Stick with the seat shakers, it really does add a nice amount of realism.

..I tried to "shake" manually the whole thing (platform on wheels with  brakes on wheels) and it does the trick, not talking  30 HZ , just kind of rocking  you get on a bumby road..  no harm for electronics
Rattle and thumping through audio do not bounce your body, just trick it. (and BTW could harm the electronic)

New approach, not through loudspeaker rumble, I mean Physical movement


« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 10:04:02 PM by jackpilot »


Jack

Offline iwik

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 10:32:16 PM »
Jack,
See what one of our fellow builders(Geneb) has done.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb/?p=351
Les

Offline jackpilot

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 10:22:43 AM »
Thank you.
The software  allows selection of moderate runway vibs as well as gear turbulence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2XzttgiM-8&feature=youtu.be
Engine vibes are not required for a 737

« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 10:27:55 AM by jackpilot »


Jack

Offline jackpilot

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Jack

Offline RayS

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 01:33:19 AM »
I have a few of these in my Beech 1900. After blowing up a few Bass-Shakers, decided I needed to get serious.


http://clarksynthesis.com/clark-synthesis-products/tactile-sound-transducers/

I have the TST329 Gold Transducer in my pit and if I crank them up, they literally make the sim feel like it's going to shake itself apart. Cranking that high usually would blow a ButtKicker or whatever they're called.

Ray Sotkiewicz

Offline MjTom

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 06:04:57 AM »
Hi,

I will test what happens, if I pinch my two buttkickers (Buttkicker Mini LFE) between the wall and the pedestal.
Perhaps it is enough to achieve a certain effect
In the worst case nothing happens or the house collapses.

so long....Thomas
website under construction:
https://pfaelzer-b737-homecockpit.de

Offline Jimmerrelie

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 03:27:51 PM »
Hi.  This might be of some interest to you. It is still in development but it seems like something we could integrate into our sims quite easily. http://www.immersit.com/motion/. I think there is a video on YouTube somewhere as well.
I7 4770k oc to 4.2
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Offline jackpilot

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 04:41:40 PM »
will follow up on that one ... :D


Jack

Offline bernard S

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2017, 08:34:24 PM »
6 doff motion platform ..only way end of story  :2cw:

Offline jackpilot

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2017, 02:05:27 PM »
of course... ::)











Jack

Offline 757Simulator

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2017, 12:53:22 AM »
Jack, get with me. Conquered this ( not me, but others more intelligent then me) some years ago.  ;)

Offline jackpilot

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 09:08:42 AM »

Thanks Mike
Lookin at your site


Jack

Offline sagrada737

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2017, 09:49:42 PM »
The BFF Shaker system is a very low cost approach to providing many of the "shakes and bumps and transition" that we might expect during various phases of flight.   I use this and it has proven to add a nice degree of immersion to the Sim flight experience - to the point, where when it is OFF, it doesn't feel like I'm flying.

The BFF Shaker audio card connects via a virtual USB Serial interface, and directly outputs an audio signal suitable for direct input to a amp for an audio transducer.   I use the ButKicker product that has its own PreAmp/Amp to drive the transducer.   This is quite nice and very important, as it is independent of the audio side allowing the shaker to be easily balanced for a more realistic combination of audio bass and actual physical vibration induced by the audio transducer.

Placement of the audio transducer is important.   Also, its mechanical security is important as well, as it is capable of producing some strong slow frequency vibrations.

The BFF Shaker application allows customization of various flight activity, such as taxi way bumps, flaps, gear, etc., in addition to adjusting overall amplitude.

As Barnard rightfully points out, a 6dof motion platform is perhaps the total solution, but few have such a setup, and in reality, our hobby Sim setups are not able to withstand the serious vibrations that a commercial flight deck can tolerate.   As was pointed out, vibrations can become quite intense, with everything on the flight deck affected.   This is not something I want my Sim subjected to, as it is simply not designed to handle such low frequency vibration levels.   A more than acceptable solution is to use a ButtKicker type of transducer attached to the seat or flight deck, to give a hint of vibration for what is taking place during the flight.

Mike
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Offline jackpilot

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Re: Shake and rattle Take off
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2017, 08:47:40 AM »
The BFF can drive an unbalanced motor assembly which can (in a subtle and adjustable way) rock the whole sim mainly for rendering some take-off/landing "wagging" of the cabin, and some degree of turbulence/spoilers when airborne. A sort of big stick shaker actually.
Not low Hz frequency generators, which I agree can be damaging. I have a small AURA thing in the back to simulate gear/flaps/runway rumbles which are more sounds than movement.
Even a very small amplitude of  physical movement is very convincing
 :2cw:


Jack

 

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