Cockpit

* User Profile

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Who's Online

  • *Users: 0
  • *Guests: 31
  • *Total: 31

Author Topic: BFF control loader  (Read 846 times)

Offline marcofa

  • CockpitBuilder
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: marco
  • Home Location: italy
BFF control loader
« on: May 01, 2017, 03:47:47 AM »
Anyone know if BFF control loader force feedback software http://bffsimulation.com/CL_Software.php work with Project Magenta?
User guide to work with Prosim is supplied by BFF http://bffsimulation.com/Manual-CL/Appendix_F.php , but nothing for PM.
Thank you for help
Marco

Offline Trevor Hale

  • Administrator
  • I am chained to this website!
  • *
  • Posts: 3,230
    • Cockpitbuilders.com
  • First Name: Trevor
  • Home Location: New Liskeard, Ontario
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 07:45:57 AM »
Hi,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think that the control loading software would read the FSUIPC/Simconnect offsets/controls from the control axis's directly to and from flightsim.  I would not expect the control loading would gather any information from prosim and or Project magenta.

Just my thoughts.
Trevor Hale

Owner
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com

Director of Operations
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

Offline navymustang

  • Simulation Engineer
  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 196
  • Building a 737-800 full scale cockpit
  • First Name: Jim
  • Home Location: Orlando, FL
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 08:24:56 AM »
Trevor - you are exactly right. The system uses FSUIPC to communicate with the flight sim. So any sim supporting that is compatible. Look at the diagram on the support page for the product, it's very clear how to interface.
Building a full scale 737-800 AATD for home use. Majority of hardware is from Sismo Solutions, software is Prosim under P3D.
Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

Offline marcofa

  • CockpitBuilder
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: marco
  • Home Location: italy
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2017, 09:00:33 AM »
Thank for your opinion.
Anyway I think is not so simple as you mention. In case of autopilot engaged from glass cockpit software, a comunication from PM and BFF software is needed, so, some line of program have to be write....I think
Marco

Offline Trevor Hale

  • Administrator
  • I am chained to this website!
  • *
  • Posts: 3,230
    • Cockpitbuilders.com
  • First Name: Trevor
  • Home Location: New Liskeard, Ontario
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2017, 12:14:15 PM »
I doubt it Marco... I would think it is easier then we said..  but do what you want.
Trevor Hale

Owner
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com

Director of Operations
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

Offline iwik

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 271
  • GA Jockey
  • First Name: Les
  • Home Location: Christchurch New Zealand
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2017, 01:08:16 PM »
Guys,
Think Marco is right. It's to do with getting the yoke to follow when
AP is engaged.

"In order to allow the CL system work with the ProSim A/P custom FSUIPC offsets are used to communicate the A/P status, and to send disengage commands from the CL software to ProSim. These custom FSUIPC offsets must be configured in ProSim 737 System application. See below for details.

Les
Marco, i run BFF Control loading software on a GA yoke and its
fantastic. Ian is a great guy to work with, just email him.
Les
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:12:16 PM by iwik »

Offline Trevor Hale

  • Administrator
  • I am chained to this website!
  • *
  • Posts: 3,230
    • Cockpitbuilders.com
  • First Name: Trevor
  • Home Location: New Liskeard, Ontario
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 01:54:33 PM »
Ok, I looked at it as if it was (SIMILAR) to a motion platform.  No matter what the autopilot is doing your control loading should be the same in my opinion.   Moving the yoke.

Anyway...  It would be interesting to find out... what happens with this.
Trevor Hale

Owner
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com

Director of Operations
Worldflight Team USA
http://www.worldflightusa.com

Offline iwik

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 271
  • GA Jockey
  • First Name: Les
  • Home Location: Christchurch New Zealand
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 08:15:44 PM »
Trev,
Yes i agree, control loading should work as BFF software just takes
FSX data and works out the Math to covert to load.
Les

Offline RayS

  • I may as well be Staff!
  • *
  • Posts: 600
  • Private Pilot, Sim Enthusiast
    • Anthony Scott Photography
  • First Name: Ray Sotkiewicz
  • Home Location: Seattle, WA
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 01:17:26 AM »
Been following this thread and have some questions...

Regarding control loading: I've always considered the forces on any control surface  a 'product' of IAS and Pressure Altitude. IAS being constant, controls will feel different at various pressure altitudes. Likewise,  pressure altitude as a constant, controls will feel different based on IAS.

I'm considering "Loading" a totally different variable than "Deflection"

Thoughts?

 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 01:18:47 AM by RayS »
Ray Sotkiewicz

Offline sagrada737

  • 737NG Home Cockpit:
  • I may as well be Staff!
  • *
  • Posts: 502
  • N737CM - Keep your airspeed up !
    • Imaging The Heavens
  • First Name: Mike
  • Home Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico USA
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2017, 07:49:49 AM »
In addition to the above comments, there is a major issue with using the BFF Control Loader system.  Ian Hopper provides excellent products, but in the case of the Control Loader system, it requires a very precise mechanical drive system to handle the required gear reduction and associated motors/encoders. 

This means that it is not just a simple matter of plug and play to add a BFF Control Loader system.  It is going to require careful loading calculations and precision machining to get this to work correctly.  As Ian puts it, "If there is any mechanical slop in the mechanism, it will not work correctly."  In part, this means that setting up a functional Control Loader system is not for the faint hearted, as it is a major project in and of itself.  This is one reason why I decided to skip the temptation of adding another complex system to my Sim.  That said, those with the patience and time and mechanical skill may find building and integrating a BFF Control Loader into their Sim a challenging Sim project.

Mike
P3d v3.x with Sim-Avionics (two computers), FDS MIP, 3-Optoma HD GT180 projection display driven by a single nvidia GTX980.

Offline 737NGer

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: Youssef
  • Home Location: Cairo
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2017, 08:08:23 AM »
Can't an OEM Control Loading Computer and a real yoke mechanism do the trick?

Offline bernard S

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 281
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: Bernard
  • Home Location: Austin TX
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2017, 09:18:50 AM »
you are 100 percent correct control is not for the faint of heart.. thst being said.. retro fitting ..by retro fitting i mean adding it later is just a nightmare of bibical proportions and really should be considered at the start of a build

there are two methods of doing it.. the classic version which is hydrulic however that requires 3 phase power a huge pump and a pile of other really really expensive items not to mention noise and safety items

the other is electric using plantary motors etc  neither method is plug and play  both very expensive

then you need software gurus

for those that dont know how it looks or how to intergrate it looks like this

Offline RayS

  • I may as well be Staff!
  • *
  • Posts: 600
  • Private Pilot, Sim Enthusiast
    • Anthony Scott Photography
  • First Name: Ray Sotkiewicz
  • Home Location: Seattle, WA
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2017, 01:16:23 PM »
I found these guys a few years ago when they first started out:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/irisdynamics/affordable-force-feedback-flight-sim-control-yoke

Control loading/movement via a magnetic drive system.
Ray Sotkiewicz

Offline Sam Llorca

  • I may as well be Staff!
  • *
  • Posts: 655
  • Aviation Enthusiast/Private pilot
    • Flight experience simulation center
  • First Name: Samuel
  • Home Location: Sarasota, Florida. U.S.A.
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2017, 06:08:51 AM »
https://youtu.be/szWz_gx62lQ

This may help!

Cheers!

Offline rs3tier

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: Robert
  • Home Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 07:26:10 AM »


there are two methods of doing it.. the classic version which is hydrulic however that requires 3 phase power a huge pump and a pile of other really really expensive items not to mention noise and safety items

the other is electric using plantary motors etc  neither method is plug and play  both very expensive

then you need software gurus

for those that dont know how it looks or how to intergrate it looks like this

Just as a side note, we have a prototype for a control loading system well underway that is actually using compressed air.  I am still not 100% confident about how well it is going to end up, but we are Definitely pot committed with the amount of time/money invested so far, so I am very hopeful.  The slightly ambitious schedule sees it installed in the Sim before 2017 worldflight.

Rob

 

Recent Posts

Prepar3D Version 4.0 Announced
by Nat Crea
[Today at 02:37:42 AM]
HELP with PM
by burgafilms
[May 29, 2017, 07:37:00 PM]
Happy Birthday Simlady/Karen!!!
by flymo
[May 29, 2017, 12:29:43 PM]
Advice on room size
by fsaviator
[May 29, 2017, 12:14:13 PM]
Visuals feel off center
by mdavenport
[May 29, 2017, 02:40:10 AM]
Oasis 737 Project
by mickc
[May 28, 2017, 09:30:34 PM]
Gear sound when using Prosim 737, P3D and Sismo hardware
by navymustang
[May 28, 2017, 08:53:17 PM]
New AFT OVH
by jackpilot
[May 28, 2017, 04:27:56 PM]
727/737 cockpit shell
by blueskydriver
[May 28, 2017, 01:05:34 PM]
747 1st class seats
by bernard S
[May 27, 2017, 08:57:31 AM]
Blueskydriver's New Hanger
by blueskydriver
[May 27, 2017, 08:23:42 AM]
EVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid
by Ridgenj
[May 26, 2017, 10:47:51 PM]
My Hangar
by sagrada737
[May 26, 2017, 12:35:20 PM]
Circuit Breaker Challenge- B737 or other type
by blueskydriver
[May 25, 2017, 04:59:29 PM]
Wire gauge?
by jackpilot
[May 24, 2017, 10:34:50 PM]
WANTED....FDS SYS1 card
by Caflyt
[May 24, 2017, 05:09:11 PM]
For Sale : One More FDS B747 PRO-MX CDU
by farrokh747
[May 24, 2017, 04:42:18 PM]
Cool Captain
by RayS
[May 24, 2017, 12:34:35 PM]
Simworld CDU Bay, Lower EICAS and CAN BUS For Sale
by mdavenport
[May 24, 2017, 02:10:19 AM]
747 Auto speed brake current query
by mickc
[May 23, 2017, 06:07:12 PM]
Flight Deck Solutions MX MCP + Captain EFIS for sale
by mdavenport
[May 23, 2017, 04:28:15 PM]
WorldFlight 2017 Route Is Published
by Trevor Hale
[May 23, 2017, 02:07:06 PM]
737 Visual using monitors
by Jimmerrelie
[May 23, 2017, 05:56:54 AM]
New supplier for your sim
by blueskydriver
[May 22, 2017, 04:26:06 PM]
Building to host a cockpit?
by mdavenport
[May 22, 2017, 06:45:17 AM]
UK insurance?
by jackpilot
[May 21, 2017, 01:03:28 PM]
Ipeco seat armrest removal
by Gallie
[May 20, 2017, 11:05:49 AM]
Guess the cockpit game!
by kurt-olsson
[May 16, 2017, 10:42:24 AM]
Just when I thought the MIP was complete....
by Trevor Hale
[May 16, 2017, 04:46:38 AM]
MCP speed setting problem
by Bob Reed
[May 14, 2017, 10:12:03 PM]