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FlightSimExpo 2018

Author Topic: BFF control loader  (Read 1766 times)

Offline marcofa

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BFF control loader
« on: May 01, 2017, 03:47:47 AM »
Anyone know if BFF control loader force feedback software http://bffsimulation.com/CL_Software.php work with Project Magenta?
User guide to work with Prosim is supplied by BFF http://bffsimulation.com/Manual-CL/Appendix_F.php , but nothing for PM.
Thank you for help
Marco

Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 07:45:57 AM »
Hi,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think that the control loading software would read the FSUIPC/Simconnect offsets/controls from the control axis's directly to and from flightsim.  I would not expect the control loading would gather any information from prosim and or Project magenta.

Just my thoughts.
Trevor Hale

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Offline navymustang

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 08:24:56 AM »
Trevor - you are exactly right. The system uses FSUIPC to communicate with the flight sim. So any sim supporting that is compatible. Look at the diagram on the support page for the product, it's very clear how to interface.
Building a full scale 737-800 AATD for home use. Majority of hardware is from Sismo Solutions, software is Prosim under P3D. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors
Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

Offline marcofa

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2017, 09:00:33 AM »
Thank for your opinion.
Anyway I think is not so simple as you mention. In case of autopilot engaged from glass cockpit software, a comunication from PM and BFF software is needed, so, some line of program have to be write....I think
Marco

Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2017, 12:14:15 PM »
I doubt it Marco... I would think it is easier then we said..  but do what you want.
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Offline iwik

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2017, 01:08:16 PM »
Guys,
Think Marco is right. It's to do with getting the yoke to follow when
AP is engaged.

"In order to allow the CL system work with the ProSim A/P custom FSUIPC offsets are used to communicate the A/P status, and to send disengage commands from the CL software to ProSim. These custom FSUIPC offsets must be configured in ProSim 737 System application. See below for details.

Les
Marco, i run BFF Control loading software on a GA yoke and its
fantastic. Ian is a great guy to work with, just email him.
Les
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:12:16 PM by iwik »

Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 01:54:33 PM »
Ok, I looked at it as if it was (SIMILAR) to a motion platform.  No matter what the autopilot is doing your control loading should be the same in my opinion.   Moving the yoke.

Anyway...  It would be interesting to find out... what happens with this.
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Offline iwik

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 08:15:44 PM »
Trev,
Yes i agree, control loading should work as BFF software just takes
FSX data and works out the Math to covert to load.
Les

Offline RayS

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 01:17:26 AM »
Been following this thread and have some questions...

Regarding control loading: I've always considered the forces on any control surface  a 'product' of IAS and Pressure Altitude. IAS being constant, controls will feel different at various pressure altitudes. Likewise,  pressure altitude as a constant, controls will feel different based on IAS.

I'm considering "Loading" a totally different variable than "Deflection"

Thoughts?

 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 01:18:47 AM by RayS »
Ray Sotkiewicz

Offline sagrada737

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2017, 07:49:49 AM »
In addition to the above comments, there is a major issue with using the BFF Control Loader system.  Ian Hopper provides excellent products, but in the case of the Control Loader system, it requires a very precise mechanical drive system to handle the required gear reduction and associated motors/encoders. 

This means that it is not just a simple matter of plug and play to add a BFF Control Loader system.  It is going to require careful loading calculations and precision machining to get this to work correctly.  As Ian puts it, "If there is any mechanical slop in the mechanism, it will not work correctly."  In part, this means that setting up a functional Control Loader system is not for the faint hearted, as it is a major project in and of itself.  This is one reason why I decided to skip the temptation of adding another complex system to my Sim.  That said, those with the patience and time and mechanical skill may find building and integrating a BFF Control Loader into their Sim a challenging Sim project.

Mike
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Offline 737NGer

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2017, 08:08:23 AM »
Can't an OEM Control Loading Computer and a real yoke mechanism do the trick?

Offline bernard S

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2017, 09:18:50 AM »
you are 100 percent correct control is not for the faint of heart.. thst being said.. retro fitting ..by retro fitting i mean adding it later is just a nightmare of bibical proportions and really should be considered at the start of a build

there are two methods of doing it.. the classic version which is hydrulic however that requires 3 phase power a huge pump and a pile of other really really expensive items not to mention noise and safety items

the other is electric using plantary motors etc  neither method is plug and play  both very expensive

then you need software gurus

for those that dont know how it looks or how to intergrate it looks like this

Offline RayS

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2017, 01:16:23 PM »
I found these guys a few years ago when they first started out:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/irisdynamics/affordable-force-feedback-flight-sim-control-yoke

Control loading/movement via a magnetic drive system.
Ray Sotkiewicz

Offline Sam Llorca

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2017, 06:08:51 AM »
https://youtu.be/szWz_gx62lQ

This may help!

Cheers!

Offline rs3tier

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Re: BFF control loader
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 07:26:10 AM »


there are two methods of doing it.. the classic version which is hydrulic however that requires 3 phase power a huge pump and a pile of other really really expensive items not to mention noise and safety items

the other is electric using plantary motors etc  neither method is plug and play  both very expensive

then you need software gurus

for those that dont know how it looks or how to intergrate it looks like this

Just as a side note, we have a prototype for a control loading system well underway that is actually using compressed air.  I am still not 100% confident about how well it is going to end up, but we are Definitely pot committed with the amount of time/money invested so far, so I am very hopeful.  The slightly ambitious schedule sees it installed in the Sim before 2017 worldflight.

Rob

 

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