Cockpit

* User Profile

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Who's Online

  • *Users: 3
  • *Guests: 44
  • *Total: 47

Author Topic: TQ - Motor mounting options  (Read 412 times)

Offline srisim

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: srini
  • Home Location: Boston, USA
TQ - Motor mounting options
« on: July 02, 2017, 03:46:13 AM »
For mounting thrust lever motors, I see these two (see attachments) options as popular among many here. 

In comparision, Option #1 is taking up less space horizontally, but needs extra right angle drive component. Also, in option #1, there is no additional bearing support at the sprocket end.

I am leaning towards option #1 due to its' compact nature. However, I am concerned with:

a) extra right angle drive (extra point of failure?)
b) lack of support at the sprocket end (any stability issues?)

Which one do you prefer/recommend?

Also, appreciate if someone please tell me the model/part #s for items marked as A1 (right angle drive) and A2 (sprocket) in Option #1 and where to purchase?

Thanks
Srini

P.S. To illustrate my question, I am re-using the photos posted earlier on this forum without prior permission from their original owners. Nick/Flying_Fox and Fred/FredK, hope that is ok and thank you.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 06:53:54 AM by srisim »

Offline mickc

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 385
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: Mick
  • Home Location: VIC, AU
Re: TQ - Motor mounting options
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2017, 07:22:17 AM »
Just a note before my reply, there are a lot of different ways to "skin a cat" as they say, and people have various ideas and build methods that work well for them.  My build was based on what I wanted to achieve, and the design I chose was based on my engineering experience.  my preferences are not in any way implying that other ideas or methods are inferior  ;) ;)


I use something similar to the second option, but with the motors overlapping to save space.  This way the ends of the motors to not go outside the outline of the TQ frame.

The motors and end support bearings are mounted on 3mm Aluminium brackets, and everything is bolted to a steel plate.
The brass shaft that goes through the end support bearing mounts inside the clutch and butts up against the motor shaft. 
Clutches are Polyclutch 16 plate, 6mm bore models, with the drive sprocket machines and pressed onto the outer case.

I would say the end support is essential in this configuration, as the clutches can flex quite a bit when the cables/chains are tightened.

The only slight downside with this option is that there is some inherent backlash in the gearboxes of these style of motors, which leads to a few mm of free play back at the handles (although the real aircraft also has a small amount of free play).

The right angled motors would likely have less backlash as they are a simple worm drive, not multiple spur gears.
Although the motors in option 1 have no end support, these clutches could be self supporting, as the motor shaft is quite thick compared to the Option 2 ones.

Also my pedestal is quite packed inside (build progress photo included below), and i have limited room available, so this method works great for me. 

In my opinion you don't need an overly large motor to drive the throttles.  They only have to provide a slightly higher torque than the slip clutch is set to.   I have measure the throttle handle tension in the real NG with a tension scale, and they need roughly 1.5kg of force to move.  I have this replicated in my setup and even these small motors only run at a 20% duty cycle during full clutch slip.


Offline FredK

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 344
  • 737NG Cockpit Builder
  • First Name: Fred Kurasiewicz
  • Home Location: Williamsburg, Virginia, USA
Re: TQ - Motor mounting options
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2017, 12:15:01 PM »
Srini -

I have a surplus pair of the exact motors in option "A".  Model is Crouzet #82048029.  They are rated at 42rpm running @ 24v, 21rpm @ 12v, and 10rpm @ 6v.  The right angle drive is integral with the motor.  You do not need to purchase that separately.

These are heavy duty motors (they weigh over 2 lbs. each) and the shaft assembly is very sturdy.  You would not need the shaft bearing support for this design.

However there is actually more shaft "free playback" with these than the motors in Option "B".

If you want to go in this direction or to experiment with you can have them for $25 each plus shipping.

But based on my experience with both of these motor types you do not need anything this heavy...the smaller 12v robotics motors work perfectly fine.  You could couple those with a separate right angle gear drive (readily available at Servo City etc.) if you wanted to go in the direction of a more compact footprint design.  I would venture you would need to have the bearing pillow support for the shaft though.

Fred
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 12:32:21 PM by FredK »
Boeing 737NG-800, Prepar3D v3.35, Sim-Avionics, WideView multi-channel (curved screen), Optoma 1080GT projectors (3), Fly Elise warping, FSGRW weather, FDS OH panels and CDUs, SimParts MIP, FDS SysBoards (OH), CPFlight MCPPro and pedestal panels, FI Gauges, converted motorized TQ (SIOC), Weber seats

Offline Flying_Fox

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 411
  • P3D / Win7-64 / FDS / 3 x Optoma GT720
    • My build blog
  • First Name: Nick
  • Home Location: Halifax, Canada
Re: TQ - Motor mounting options
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2017, 02:14:13 PM »

P.S. To illustrate my question, I am re-using the photos posted earlier on this forum without prior permission from their original owners. Nick/Flying_Fox and Fred/FredK, hope that is ok and thank you.

Hi srini,

No problem whatsoever! :)

A1
42-rpm @ 24VDC, 7 ft/lbs torque. Running at 12 V.   
Crouzet reversible high torque gearhead motor.
http://www.wisconsinpartsdatabase.com/INDIANA/Electrical-Components/Remove/New/Without-Warranty/Crouzet-reversible-high-torque-gearhead-motor.pl

A2
http://www.dynatect.com/mechanical-motion-control/slip-clutches/mechanical/slipper-clutch
SAS20 or SAO20 as far as I know.

Not sure where it's better to buy now, since it was 4 years ago and Rob aka 727737Nut was installing them.

Nick

Offline srisim

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: srini
  • Home Location: Boston, USA
Re: TQ - Motor mounting options
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2017, 09:56:01 AM »
All - Thank you so much for your detailed, helpful explanations..


MICK

I am quite inspired by your top-notch build quality. Wish I had the same skills/resources. I like how you solved the space issue and fitted both motors inside the frame.  I notice both you and Fred made the same observations about the motor rating/size. I am not sure what your motors are, but I am thinking of start experimenting with a 6 RPM motor that Fred suggested in this thread and copy your mounting solution (with your permission  ;)). I have already grabbed two of these 6 mm bore polyclutches on ebay.

I too realized early that in the option #2 design, extra 8mm to 6mm coupler can be eliminated by using sprocket with the same bore dia as motor (6mm) on the other end.

Could you share specs/source for your SPROCKET and the SPROCKET END BEARING please?

Btw, those simstacks boards and connectors arrangement looks like beautiful lego construction :)

FRED

Fred, thanks for the offer of the motors, much appreciate. However, based on your earlier recommendation, I am thinking of starting with the 6 RPM servocity motor (part #638210) unless you advise me otherwise. And will try avoid introducing extra right angle drive (as well as the 8mm/6mm coupler) if I could.

NICK

Thanks for the part details and your forgiveness for using your pic  ;)

For A2, it wasn't' the slip clutch, I already bought the clutch. I was asking about the details of the SPROCKET attached to the right of the poly clutch. 


P.S. Here is the (work in progress) google docs file that I am putting together with all the info I am gathering for others benefit.




Offline mickc

  • Forum GURU
  • *
  • Posts: 385
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: Mick
  • Home Location: VIC, AU
Re: TQ - Motor mounting options
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 10:06:43 PM »
MICK

I am quite inspired by your top-notch build quality. Wish I had the same skills/resources. I like how you solved the space issue and fitted both motors inside the frame.  I notice both you and Fred made the same observations about the motor rating/size. I am not sure what your motors are, but I am thinking of start experimenting with a 6 RPM motor that Fred suggested in this thread and copy your mounting solution (with your permission  ;)). I have already grabbed two of these 6 mm bore polyclutches on ebay.

I too realized early that in the option #2 design, extra 8mm to 6mm coupler can be eliminated by using sprocket with the same bore dia as motor (6mm) on the other end.

Could you share specs/source for your SPROCKET and the SPROCKET END BEARING please?


Hi Srini,

Sorry i just caught the reply to this.

I use 5 rpm motors with a 19 tooth size 06B chain plate sprocket, and the same Polyclutches as you have purchased.
The plate sprocket bore is machined out to be slightly smaller than the stepped down hub at the end of the clutch.

The sprocket & clutch hub are shrink fitted together :-

The clutch hub is then removed from the clutch and frozen for a few hours, and the sprocket is heated up in a small sandwich oven.

The hub is then pressed into the bore of the sprocket with a wooded drift, and both are left to return to room temp.

The sprocket shrinks and the hub expands as they cool/warm up which locks the 2 together as a single unit.

The end of the clutch hub is drilled out to 6mm.

Doing it this way saves a lot of space and allows the motors to be closer together.


Support bearings are just generic single roller bearings with a 6mm inside diameter and a 20mm outside diameter. 
These sit in machined housings and have a 6mm brass rod through them into the clutch hub.   Stop collars are clamped either side of the bearing to prevent axial movement.

The housings pictured were 3D printed, but i ended up machining some out of aluminium instead.
Also there is a pic attached of the bearing and shaft without the clutch /sprocket installed.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 12:25:28 AM by mickc »

Offline kurt-olsson

  • I may as well be Staff!
  • *
  • Posts: 513
  • Aviation Enthusiast
  • First Name: Peter
  • Home Location: Gothenburg
Re: TQ - Motor mounting options
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 06:00:21 AM »
I am still searching and hope to find a low rpm engine with clutch built in, that would be the best. But i havent found any.

 

Recent Posts

use pedestal circuit breakers
by mickc
[Today at 04:47:45 AM]
737-800 Arduino X-Plane Build
by kurt-olsson
[July 19, 2017, 03:19:26 PM]
737NG Cockpit Floor Rivet Sizes and Locations
by bernard S
[July 19, 2017, 12:38:49 PM]
New Cockpit Builder - Project Changes
by blueskydriver
[July 19, 2017, 10:14:24 AM]
Opions / Reviews on NFS Yokes, CFY TQ, and FDS Rudder
by airupthere
[July 19, 2017, 08:40:46 AM]
5VDC dimmer required
by Aerosim Solutions
[July 18, 2017, 06:46:12 PM]
New supplier for your sim
by Fcoq
[July 18, 2017, 05:29:29 AM]
Weber seat restoration
by blueskydriver
[July 18, 2017, 02:01:12 AM]
Tiller Steering Airbus
by eduardohbm
[July 17, 2017, 08:59:09 PM]
Air vents for sale (SOLD)
by 737man
[July 17, 2017, 01:36:40 PM]
HEY GUYS! WANNA SPEED UP YOUR COMPUTER?
by kurt-olsson
[July 17, 2017, 02:22:02 AM]
Eastern Airlines 727 Cockpit Layout Diagrams?
by DC9legacy
[July 16, 2017, 10:19:31 PM]
Revolution Simproducts V2.0 Plug & Play Throttle help
by Garys
[July 16, 2017, 04:45:57 PM]
WidevieW
by Ed
[July 16, 2017, 01:44:31 PM]
737 CDU for sale
by pierclav
[July 15, 2017, 04:15:39 AM]
P3D v4 Multi Channel
by Nat Crea
[July 15, 2017, 02:54:56 AM]
Calculating amp draw
by Mach7
[July 14, 2017, 10:49:53 AM]
CRJ cockpit for sale
by Goodenough
[July 13, 2017, 04:27:04 PM]
OEM Duct pressure gauge
by jackpilot
[July 13, 2017, 12:38:17 PM]
Looking for 2 eyeball ducts fr my 737 cockpit
by jackpilot
[July 13, 2017, 10:28:52 AM]
Advice on room size
by Caflyt
[July 13, 2017, 05:54:56 AM]
How to correct crab angle view question
by ebaw
[July 13, 2017, 03:35:16 AM]
Grayhill mini rotaries SOLD
by jackpilot
[July 12, 2017, 03:50:06 PM]
Hello from Versailles
by RJ85
[July 12, 2017, 02:07:04 AM]
Wanted - 2 Bay 737-300 Pedestal
by philb737
[July 11, 2017, 01:14:02 AM]
Simulators on Public Surplus in Wisconsin!
by blueskydriver
[July 10, 2017, 11:33:17 PM]
Jeehell: The AP does not follow the lateral guidance from the FD
by luisgordo
[July 10, 2017, 10:26:34 AM]
B737 Rudder adjusting crank unit
by Buster99
[July 08, 2017, 05:24:26 PM]
New BAe146 glareshield for VR MCP install...
by Mach7
[July 08, 2017, 09:06:14 AM]
TQ - Motor mounting options
by kurt-olsson
[July 08, 2017, 06:00:21 AM]