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CockpitBuilders.com - Main => General Discusion Board. => Topic started by: fsaviator on December 29, 2018, 09:20:20 AM

Title: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on December 29, 2018, 09:20:20 AM
I'm looking for a guide to setup a three projector 210 degree external view in P3D.

CAVEATS:
- Please refrain from comments on warping software opinions unless it provides a specific and pertinent capability others don't.  I'd like to focus the discussion on the process not the software.

- I already know that Nat does a fantastic job but that is not an option right now

- I am limited to using one PC with an RTX 2070 to drive the projectors.
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-I'm using P3D4 (recently switched from FSX)
-I have a 210 degree screen with a 15ft/3m diameter.  It is 80 inches high
-I have three Optoma GT1080Darbee projectors
-I have a Digital Th2Go available to use if needed
-I prefer butted edge views as opposed to blended edges

Questions to start with: 
-4:3 or 16:9?  I have the screen real estate for both and would like to get the most out of it

-Can I use the windowmaker tool with P3D4?

-What is the sweet spot as far as angle of view for each projector to minimize distoration and bending in the banks and climbs?

Thanks for your help!


Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: tennyson on December 29, 2018, 09:45:56 AM
Hi Warren.
These two video's which I just released a few days back may be just what you are looking for.

They are dedicated to Fly_Elise Calibration Pro and Immersive Display Pro and the integration using ViewGroups, into P3D V 4.4.

It is done via single PC with triple projectors.


Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7s0B0kWSIY&t=1095s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7s0B0kWSIY&t=1095s)

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVWaYmtK3E&t=169s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVWaYmtK3E&t=169s)


Hope this helps,

Kind Regards,


Frank Cooper
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on December 29, 2018, 12:39:43 PM
I was waiting on the second video!

It's a start.

Thanks Frank!
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on December 29, 2018, 02:06:50 PM
Hi Warren.
These two video's which I just released a few days back may be just what you are looking for.

They are dedicated to Fly_Elise Calibration Pro and Immersive Display Pro and the integration using ViewGroups, into P3D V 4.4.

It is done via single PC with triple projectors.


Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7s0B0kWSIY&t=1095s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7s0B0kWSIY&t=1095s)

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVWaYmtK3E&t=169s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBVWaYmtK3E&t=169s)


Hope this helps,

Kind Regards,


Frank Cooper

Frank,
I'll definitely reference your videos once I get to that point.

What I am not getting (or maybe I missed) in the video is how did you determine the mounting location/direction/distance for your projectors?

Does the Fly-Elise software tell you that?
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: navymustang on December 29, 2018, 03:37:26 PM
WindowMaker works perfect for entering the correct data into P3D v4
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on December 29, 2018, 04:11:52 PM
WindowMaker works perfect for entering the correct data into P3D v4

Thanks!  I figured as much but wanted to check.

Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: tennyson on December 29, 2018, 08:35:57 PM
Warren,
I did a plan of the room on the computer and mapped exactly where my projectors had to go according to the screen width.
My screen is 4.8 metres wide and my projectors, which are also positioned directly above the back of the cockpit, are just slightly ahead of the radius point of the screen. That is why I have set mine up as a 180 degree screen.


If I'd had a slightly bigger screen, or been able to move the platform that my cockpit is sitting on, I would have been able to increase the angle of view, maybe 200 or 210.

My mate, Richard, in New Zealand, has the same set-up. He is able to move his cockpit a little more forward, so, on his next calibration that we do, later in 2019, we will increase his viewing angle to 200 degrees.

The other governing factor in this is your overlap. Fly-Elise suggest 10% and I have stuck to that, which is very important if you are expecting a good merge and blend.

Regards,


Frank
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on December 29, 2018, 11:43:57 PM
Well, I've managed to apply the the windowmaker edits to the P3D4 fxml file as well as the 3-window vs 4 window changes.

Everything looks good on the LCD screen tonight.  I hope to have time tomorrow to output this to the projectors and onto the screen.

I redid the screen frame and it's set up in the garage right now.  I'll get it all working in there before transferring it all into the sim room.  That will let me get the projectors aligned on the floor as opposed to fighting gravity and the sim shell to get it done.
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: jmlohrenz on December 31, 2018, 11:16:15 AM
Is your 210 degree view more of a horse shoe layout than a constantly curving screen?  I'm in the same boat, same projectors, and single PC but looking at either getting a second 1080ti or trying with my single one to get it to work.
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on December 31, 2018, 11:30:23 AM
Is your 210 degree view more of a horse shoe layout than a constantly curving screen?  I'm in the same boat, same projectors, and single PC but looking at either getting a second 1080ti or trying with my single one to get it to work.

It's a continuous 210 radius.  Finished the gantry this morning.  I won't mount the projectors yet as I'll adjust them on the floor, but I need the gantry to tie in to the screen sides and keep them vertical.  It works like a charm.

Both the screen legs and the gantry legs are also height adjustable.  The gantry is at the lowest setting to clear the garage opener right now.

The trick is taking it apart and getting into my sim room.  Note to self:  when confined to a small room, upgrade visuals before building the sim and shell.
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on December 31, 2018, 10:28:09 PM
Well...  success I think.  Here's a video of progress so far.  Not sure why the video is such poor quality.

Initial try with 210 = 3 x 70 degrees was very distorted in the banks and climbs.  I changed it to 60 deg in the views and it is much better.  The zoom factor in Windowmaker also didn't work out.  I played with it a bit and settled on about 0.92 Zoom for the side views and 0.93 for the center.

I'm using Nthusim for the warping.  It acted a little strange the first few times I started P3D but settled itself out finally.

https://youtu.be/Bz3oG6xSxC0 (https://youtu.be/Bz3oG6xSxC0)
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: Trevor Hale on December 31, 2018, 11:06:44 PM
Wow Warren, The Screen video is awesome...  The Right Screen and Center Matches Perfect, Your Left Screen (Right Projector) Sitting in the cockpit seems like the warp didn't quite take.  But the blend on the the center to the right is outstanding and I can;t see the typical lines we can normally see in videos even though in reality they aren't there.  Your blend is damn near perfect.
Great Job.

Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: Garys on January 01, 2019, 01:05:08 AM
Hey Warren, Nthusim is no longer so would definitely dump it. Anything from windows or P3Dv4 updates could brick it with no option to move fwd.

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on January 01, 2019, 10:45:21 AM
Hey Warren, Nthusim is no longer so would definitely dump it. Anything from windows or P3Dv4 updates could brick it with no option to move fwd. Nat recommends Flyelise and that is what I and several builders are using to good effect.


Happy New Year!

Yep, I know...  Nthusim is working so far, though
I have downloaded Fly-Elise and using the demo but truthfully I hate to spend the time to figure out...  it definitely has a learning curve compared to Nthusim.

Thanks!  Have a great year!
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: FredK on January 01, 2019, 01:37:05 PM
Hi Warren

I have used Nthusim in the past and Fly Elise currently.

Do not be daunted about what Fly Elise appears to be.......

There are two approaches with Fly Elise....The "Camera" method (which can be daunting coming from Nthusim) and the "On-Screen" method (basically the same process as Nthusim with some extra features to simplify use with ViewGroups).

There are separate manuals for each....That said, both are not written very well.

I am using the "On Screen" method with very good results.  There really are only 10 or so specific steps in the process.  I came up to speed in about an hour following the manual closely page-by-page.

So if you have an hour of time and the extra bucks it is well worth it!

Fred K
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: MCrevot on January 08, 2019, 10:37:49 AM
Hello Warren,

the right solution to project 3 views is to use wideview, not very difficult and so nice, look at my web site (http://www.mya320sim.com/3-vdp-et-un-ecran-cylindrique/ (http://www.mya320sim.com/3-vdp-et-un-ecran-cylindrique/), 2 PCs are enough ; Fly elise pro works well.

Michel
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: Nat Crea on January 08, 2019, 07:18:14 PM
Quote
Hello Warren,

the right solution to project 3 views is to use wideview

Its a (old) solution, but not the only solution honestly, we've been running Single IG 220FOV
visuals for a few years for Pro and Private customers.
Same 200-220FOV view on one PC without the network headaches.

Nat
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on January 08, 2019, 08:18:05 PM
Quote
Hello Warren,

the right solution to project 3 views is to use wideview

Its a (old) solution, but not the only solution honestly, we've been running Single IG 220FOV
visuals for a few years for Pro and Private customers.
Same 200-220FOV view on one PC without the network headaches.

Nat

That's what I'm shooting for.  I've got the 220 with one IG.  So far so good in the garage, but once I got it into the sim room with the shell, i have some shadowing on the sides.  It's workable but I'm not happy yet.  Can't get the gantry high enough.  I'm going to play with positioning the side views a bit more.
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: Garys on January 09, 2019, 02:34:32 AM
I still highly recommend changing out your warping software Warren. Its only a matter of time until your stuck in the past while the rest of us move along with the updates that P3D and Xplane are pushing out.
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: blueskydriver on January 09, 2019, 05:45:05 AM
Hi Warren,

Can you just remove the garage door opener to get the gantry higher? You'll still have a functioning garage door, just no automation. Which is actually easier then you think to open by hand; garage doors are setup to only need a minimum amount of force to rasie them and it's really all about the spring tension anyway.

Thus, I suggest you try it out by pulling the chain release rope on the pully/chain bar. It should be easy to open. If not, lubricate the tension springs, the guide rails and wheels on both sides, as well as all the hinges in each door panel section.

Looking at your picture, you'll likely gain at least 18-24", if not more by removing the opener. Plus, Karen and I did this years ago when my sim was in our garage, back before we had the hanger/shed built, and it made all the difference in the world. Well, lol...in my sim world that is  :idiot:

John

Note: Do not use WD40, it only helps collect dust and dirt where you don't need it; instead, use a garage door specific lubricate. 
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on January 09, 2019, 06:16:11 AM
Hi Warren,

Can you just remove the garage door opener to get the gantry higher? You'll still have a functioning garage door, just no automation. Which is actually easier then you think to open by hand; garage doors are setup to only need a minimum amount of force to rasie them and it's really all about the spring tension anyway.
John, it's out of the garage and in the sim room.  No problem there.  I built both the screen and gantry so they come apart easily for transport.  They are also both adjustable in height.

The issue is that while the center of my sim room is 9 feet high, the outer edges are only 8 feet high, and that is what determines the height of my gantry (and what I failed to account for in design).

I'm going to play with flipping the side projectors right side up and putting them on the top of the gantry projecting down.
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: Nat Crea on January 09, 2019, 06:53:45 AM
Quote
I'm going to play with flipping the side projectors right side up and putting them on the top of the gantry projecting down.

Sorry mate, expect some psychedelic consequences if you try that  :o

Nat
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: fsaviator on January 09, 2019, 07:12:53 PM
Quote
I'm going to play with flipping the side projectors right side up and putting them on the top of the gantry projecting down.

Sorry mate, expect some psychedelic consequences if you try that  :o

Nat
;D ;D
Title: Re: Three Projector 210 degree with P3D4
Post by: blueskydriver on January 10, 2019, 04:12:26 AM
Hey Warren,

Sorry, I missed the part about you being in the sim room now... :D.

This will sound crazy, but can you build a boxed up higher ceiling just for the projectors? Kind of like having projectors retracting up into the ceiling, but you just use the space for mounting yours higher.

Take a look at this link:

https://medium.com/the-freerange-techologist/installing-short-throw-projectors-in-rooms-with-low-ceilings-bf2d0d12c477

Basically, the writer of the article was dealing with a similar situation, but not with a simulator; he was in a classroom environment.

If you have any space above the ceiling, even a few inches, it'd be worth trying. Usually, floor or ceiling joists are 2x6's" or bigger...

John

Note: I attached the photos from that page.