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Author Topic: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE  (Read 2924 times)

Offline jackpilot

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FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« on: February 29, 2012, 10:15:24 AM »
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 10:23:23 AM by jackpilot »
Jack

Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 12:15:54 PM »
Sorry, but my personal Opinions are below..  (If you don't want to hear me RANT....  Please don't read)
 
Peice of chit! LOL.  I am sure many of you have had the opportunity to try out the beta..  Anyway,  I wanted to have a "Clear" head when I tried it, so I have honestly tried to avoid reading much about it to see what I could experience as a "First time" user having used many Flight Simulator versions previous. 
 
Anyway, my opinion of it is as follows.
 
#1, download and install wasn't too bad. Pretty fast and honestly had me hyped up that it might be neat.. 
#2. While the installer was running.. saw things like (Fly into areas that you have bought scenery for) Bought Scenery?  Are you kidding I wouldn't buy more chit scenery from Microsoft.... Why do you think people like SimFlyers and Aeroworx, and others make scenery..  Oh wait...  it is so that they can make the scenery but have to distribute it through Microsoft so they get their cut!  HUGE Downer there.
#3. loading the software for the first time..  Got forced to fly around baloons in some homebuilt ultralite..  (Stuff that)
 
#4.  Deleted the game from my system.  Will be happy to stick with FSX and FS9.
 
Just my personal thoughts LOL.   

Offline blueskydriver

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 12:57:12 PM »
In other news, did you read that Aerosoft is now making scenery for Xplane 10? Yep, Aersoft jumped ship from MS and is now making Airports for Xplane. How many is that now who have left or almost left MS?

Honestly, I have used XPlane from years ago up until version 8 or I might even have 9 in a drawer somewhere, but my point is I am familar with it and was sitting two nights ago and thinking about ordering 10. Setting it up into the cockpit should not be extremely difficult. Although, I am not saying totally quit FSX, but in my web based training development days we would always start any new developing software program in parallel to the old one. So, maybe that should be how we go with Xplane or more so how we switched from FS9 to FSX...slowly.

As for MS Flight, it will do well for all those people who have never touched MSFS before or those kids that will play with it for a month or two, but who gave MS they're money already. As Bob says "MS doesn't care about builders or 3rd party Add-ons, MS is only worried about $$$$$$$$$$$ and the easiest way to get it". I'm not even going to download MS Flight as the previous "Web Episodes" said everything too me...

Finally, even if MS Flight changed up and somehow made it more "builder" friendly, it would be too late by the time they released anything and by then Xplane would likely have us working with them already.

Took MS three years to make a kids flying "GAME" and took 3 mintues for the real simulation community to "shoot it down" and we don't even have guns or missles on our sims...imagine that!

BSD

Edit: just to add, before someone says "but it's FREE"; well, you're right it is free. However, just think about what fish must say to themselves before taking the bait...oh look, it's FREE! In other words, MS is baiting everyone with it's "Free Release" today.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 01:24:50 PM by blueskydriver »
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Offline fsaviator

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 01:49:08 PM »
I'm not even going to bother....

Maybe it's time for a full court press with Prepare3D.  We should focus our efforts on convincing Lockheed Martin to continue to work with Prepare3D and to develop an flight enthusiasts/non-commercial version for a reasonable price.

Who knows?  A company that size isn't going to worry about a bottom line on something like this, but rather intellectual rights, trademarks and copyrights, and the operational security aspects of distributing it.  Those issues aside it may be a more viable option than watching support for FSX dry up down the road
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Offline Kennair

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 02:34:16 PM »
My money is on Prepar3D for any hope of future development if you want to stay with the FSX franchise.  I notice more and more developers such as Orbyx and REX offer direct support and porting for their addons.  Remember too that although $500 seems steep for P3D, it is the primary software platform for what is often thousands of dollars worth of hardware.  And you can sign up for a developer license at only $10 per month which will give you 2 licenses.  This is a very low cost option to try it out. 

As for MS Flight it appears scenery and frame rates are fairly good but I wonder about multi-monitor support?  Then there's the issue of hardware support given there's no SDK and if FSUIPC isn't available for it then we're all stuffed!

Ken.
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Offline Joe Lavery

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 03:58:06 PM »
Hi Guys,

I'm reviewing Flight for the mag and as Trev says it's not FSX but to be fair it was never branded as such. It's basically designed to get people who are not like us interesting in the experience of flight.
For a start it's free and you don't ever have to buy any scenery or aircraft if you don't want to. it doesn't stop working but above all you should give it a shot it's got a very realistic flight model.
When you first load it there are all sorts of help applied to get you started but take that off and it's very realistic, I guarantee that most of you will crash it on the first landing in the Stearman... I did! ???

Really I have nothing to do with Microsoft But I urge you to try it foe a while if only for the fun of it.

Cheers all  :)
Joe.
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Offline Maurice

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 05:11:16 PM »
Sorry, but my personal Opinions are below..  (If you don't want to hear me RANT....  Please don't read)
 
Peice of chit!

Aside from that, how do you REALLY feel about it?  ;D

Fully agree by the way. Definitely not for cockpit builders.

Maurice
Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

Offline Efe

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 05:12:51 PM »
Trev you old man thats not a home made ultralight but an Icon A5, the best thing that happened for the aviation community since sliced bread ;)

Just kidding... is it just me or did everyone feel that the game feels like one big shameless plug for the A5? The first few minutes, especially the trial missions etc. just made me think "I wonder how much cash Microsoft got from Icon Aircraft for this..."

I think they'll make add-ons for low prices, Apple Store app style so that MOST people will be like "oh just $2.99, sure why not?".
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Offline blueskydriver

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 07:20:13 PM »
The one thing that gives the truth of Flight was Web Episode 7 where the actual MS developers say what it is with things like "...where my 3 year old son can...", "...you don't need a joystick or controller, just mouse and go...", "...you can do things that you would not do in real flying...", "...we took the way of doing sounds from the previous franchise...", and so on. Here is something I've heard in life "never take a guy wearing a Hawaiian shirt seriously"...MS developer wearing one...opps!

Really, Joe you're right MS never labeled it as a "simulator"; however, they never did not label it as one either. It's all bottom line in the end like I said, yet to try it for free is worth doing so; although, I would not suggest trying it on your FSX (FS9) computer because you don't know what it will do to your setup and how that left over footprint will affect it.

Finally, a question I have is how are the file structures, as well as file types laid out? Are they like FSX with configs and ini's, do they have panel files, and can you strip them out like we do for flying PMDG? If it's possible then all you need is flight models and AIR files; if the graphics engine is working, it can be made to fly, but as Ken says "...FSUIPC..." is needed to make it work. The question is would you want too!

Here is a suggestion: Microsoft-We the people of the world flight simulation community protest "MS Flight"! In other words, let's start an online petition and get it going everywhere and in turn, that gives MS bad press, which eventually stops it from being forced to upon us. Add in the fact that the news outlets would like stories like this, it would smack MS in the face...

In other news, did you hear Windows 8 is being released?! HOW ODD AND JUST IN TIME!

BSD

« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 07:40:32 PM by blueskydriver »
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Offline Joe Lavery

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 07:49:44 PM »
What the head of the development team told me was that nothing was ruled out at the momnet. I did have a rather long question and answer session with him some weeks ago. I was working with the Beta then, which was not a lot different as it happens. But it seems they are prepared to give the majority of consumers what they want, regardless of waht that might be. Check out the website I'm sure it says as much.

But hey I'm not defending Microsoft for their policy decisions they're big enough to look after themselves. My only point was it's not in it's present form going to be any use whatsoever to us fruitcakes. But it's great fun once you get over that. You wouldn't slag off one of the car racing games because they had the wrong tyres on their muscle cars now would you.

As far as I know it doesn't use FSUIPC at all, they are not going to offer an SDK at present and all development of add-ons will be in house at the moment.

Having said that if you get a chance to see the Maule, it's as good as any aircraft from any third party developer, and a damn site cheaper too. And if any of you has seen the scenery it's a lot better than the default FSX, no popping of scenery as you approach and a more varied landscape.
BSD is write essentially Flight is a GAME first, it just happens to be a fine simulator as well. But it's FREEEE waht have you got to lose. It's a 1 GB download and will uninstall in under 10 seconds if you don't like it.

Still I knew I was putting my head into the lion's mouth when I wrote my first response. But I'll leave it there, that's the last I'm writing here, (on this subject anyway  ;)) Don't wish to fall out with anyone, If you want to see the rest of my thoughts you'll have to buy the next issue of PCP.

Joe.
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Offline simlady/ Karen

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 08:20:12 PM »
I had to say something about this statement from Joe "..... to us fruitcakes."

Priceless!!!!

Offline Efe

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 01:25:49 AM »
True to form, Icon sent this gem out with their newsletter yesterday:

Quote
   

Microsoft Flight Launches with ICON A5

The ICON A5 is the featured airplane in Microsoft Flight, their new PC game, which is available now to download for free (http://microsoft.com/games/flight/ ). While the game is a simulation with the inherent limitations of a virtual experience, ICON and Microsoft collaborated closely to ensure that the A5 is faithfully reproduced in the game, right down to how it sounds. The Microsoft team did a great job of approximating the A5 prototype during its development phase, prior to the most recent refinements such as spin resistance. The game requires no past experience or special hardware, making it ideal for beginners. Click the link below to watch a video that gives a behind-the-scenes peek at the collaboration between Microsoft and ICON.

Microsoft approached ICON last year about including the A5 in Microsoft Flight because both companies share the goal of bringing flying to the broader consumer audience. As part of ICON's continued effort to make flying more accessible, and to celebrate the launch of the game, ICON is lowering the required deposit for an A5 for a ten-day period from Wednesday, 29 February to Friday, 9 March. During these dates, the deposit will be reduced from $5,000 to $3,000. Visit this link for more details:

Reserve your position: ICON Microsoft Flight Sales Promotion

Video: ICON A5 in Microsoft Flight: Behind the Scenes

Read more: Microsoft Flight Launches with ICON A5 as Featured Aircraft
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Offline Joe Lavery

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 05:36:06 AM »
Not going against my own decision to bow out here, I just had to say hello to SimLady, I'm glad you liked my little jibe at our sometimes insane fraternity.  :idiot:

I'll have to start my comments with Guys and Gals in future.  ;)

Regards
Joe.
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Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 07:34:09 AM »
First off Joe, Don;t worry about what your saying or not saying.  EVERYONE HERE is entitled to an opinion and nobody will cut you down for saying what you are saying.  So please do not feel you have to keep tight lipped.
 
As many of you have said, and I quote "It is not a simulator" I agree with that statement, and thats why when I tried it, I loaded it up and flew it with my keyboard and mouse.  I wanted to look at it from a "Computer gamer" Just like I was before I started this fruitcake hobby.  So I evaluated the program based on my previous experiences with MSFS (As a whole).  Flying from the keyboard I notice some differences..  It is in fact a game, and it is in fact FREE.
 
 
However, If I were a teenager, looking to get a flying game, I would suggest getting FSX over this.  why?  because from the first few minutes playing with it, I saw an inferior product to that. In fact, I think the reputation of the whole MSFS Franchise will be destroyed by this "Clog in the drain"  Going from an open source project, with thousands of communities... to this toy.   This program has an "Arcade style feel to it" I do not want to play an arcade game, if I did, I would go play word whomp or bubbletown.
 
Just saying, LOL
 
BSD - Petitions don't work.  MS Doesn't give a chit about them, and they proved that when we all tried to save the franchise and Aces Staff.  100's of thousands filled it out and they ignored it.  M$ does what it wants when it wants, and nobody there cares about anything but $.. and what is bizzare about that is the ammount of man hours that were spent building this program, and they give it away for free? Thats why they will close the door to open source additions, because they need to make money on the add-ons to cover the cost of production of flight.
 
Efe..  LOL Still looks like an ultralight to me LOL.
 
Mau..  I will tell you how I really feel in June when we get together.  But wait till I get a few pops into me first then I will really tell you. lol
 

Offline fsaviator

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 10:54:05 AM »
I have to disagree with the comment that is being consistently made, "it is not a simulator".  If it's purpose was to expose young people to the wonders of flight, they missed their audience.

First, let me explain why I can say this with some authority.  Some know I am an E-9 in the US Army with over twenty-three years of mentoring young soldiers recruited from the "pool" MS is targeting.

So...  with that said, what have I noticed both about the kids that come in to the Army, and about the technologies the DOD is tapping into (based on a lot of research) to both train and equip these young soldiers?

Gamepad controller and XBox!

Yes, the XBox.  From firing guns, to flying small UAVs, to even diffusing IEDs...  it all works with a gamepad.  Why?  Because the youth of today may not have a computer at home, but they do have an XBox or PS3.  That is why those systems are able to interact with social networking, internet, mail, and such.

If they really meant to introduce more people to flying, they would have ported it to their own XBox as a game.  Instead, they kept it on the PC to try to maintain the large customer base that FS already has...  the simmer!  Not necessarily just the simmer that builds a 737 in his basement, but the guy that is interested enough in simming to add a yoke for a level of realism.

My opinion...  I think MS fully planned this as a simulator, but wanted in on the market-share it was missing with FS.  Add-ons, scenery, and missions.  After all, how much profit is there when you sell a package for $50...  once.  That same guy that would have bought FSXI for $50, will pay that and more over the life of Flight for new aircraft and places to fly.  How many planes and places do we all have sitting on the shelf?  We bought them all before we built cockpits.  Now we all only really stick to one plane and a little scenery.

Rant over!  I'm booting up FSX.  The funny thing is I've always wished someone would release a good Airline Sim ala PMDG meets Airline mogul for the XBox/PS3.
Warren "MTN385"
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Offline Maurice

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 11:29:16 AM »

If they really meant to introduce more people to flying, they would have ported it to their own XBox as a game.  Instead, they kept it on the PC to try to maintain the large customer base that FS already has...  the simmer!  Not necessarily just the simmer that builds a 737 in his basement, but the guy that is interested enough in simming to add a yoke for a level of realism.

My opinion...  I think MS fully planned this as a simulator, but wanted in on the market-share it was missing with FS. 

You make an excellent point here Warren. But their 'conniving' will only bear fruit if they eventually give simmers what they need to call this a real simulator. Until then, I believe it will remain a game with less market share than if it had been designed as a game for X-box.

But then again, I don't get paid big bucks to do market research. So maybe (and even very likely)  Microsoft did enough market research first before choosing this path. I don't think though that they even remotely considered cockpit builders which, despite our inflated egos, are just a very tiny & insignificant part of their overall market.

Maurice

Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

Offline blueskydriver

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 12:04:22 PM »
Hi Warren,

In agreement with you about the Xbox and PS3 use as a precursor, as well as those being used for Military Training. Simlady and myself both worked developing the training you speak of. You're familiar with AKO right? In addition to that, we developed for CD, DVD, Ipod's (when they were the hot item of the day), and Web based/online using COTS and custom programs.

One thing that we learned was that the younger soldiers loved "killing". It was not about points or tokens that they collected, it was body count and eliminating the enemy. BF3, MW, even the "America's Army" game with it's once over 500,000 real soldiers using it, were all mainstays of the tools to use for enlistments. We used to handout free copies of AA all the time...

Anyway, here is my point, MS Flight is a "Game" because its purpose is to lure you in by using a play-reward system to entice you further. MS is targeting beginners and young active console/pc owners who will get the money from somewhere...most likely their parents to buy items related to it.

If MS Flight were a simulator like FSX or FS9 even, the one thing you would hear boldly from MS is that "it's a Simulator". My opinion is MS finished what they tried in FSX and that was the adventures and missions. This time they left out "Simulator". Even more so, I don't say this because we have two full size cockpits, but because with a Simulator Program you could simulate or practice flying before going out on real flights. How many FSX or FS9 users went out in C150 or C172 and had their instructor say "WOW you learned a lot before you got here the first time, where did you say you got it from?" The answer is/was MS Flight "Simulator", be it whatever version, it was still "Simulator".

Finally, you know I mean no disrespect to you at all SGM. MS Flight seems more like Tom Clancey's H.A.W.X to me. Read this page and replace every instance of Tom Clancey or UBi-Soft with MS and replace every instance of H.A.W.X with Flight and you'll see what appears to be the same info MS used to debut Flight. Here is the link:

http://www.ps3attitude.com/new/2009/01/hawx-faq-general/

Sadly, IMHO MS did good for their target audience, but for those who have been with MS since Sub-Logic days or later were not even on the radar. Still, it's not all doom and gloom, we do have a mature FSX Simulator that even became a tool for Lockheed Martin and who knows, Austin Meyer, who might be reading this, and is now telling his staff from Xplane "Okay folks MS Flight Game (snicker, snicker, clears throat) is out now and like I told all of you, you have job security with me, so don't worry and by the way did the FAA call back about the latest version being on track for approval...oh never mind, it has been since version..."

Again, no disrespect to you or anyone else, so please don't take it that way. Now that I added to this dismay with humor, I hope that everyone else does the same, as well as give MS Flight a try because it looks like a fun "Game".

BSD



« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 12:12:42 PM by blueskydriver »
| FSX | FDS-MIP OVRHD SYS CARDS FC1| PM | PMDG 737-700 | UTX | GEX | UT7 | ASE | REX2 | AES | TSR | IS | TOPCAT | AvilaSoft EFB | OC CARDS & OVRHD GAUGES| SIMKITS | SW 3D Lights | FS2CREW2010 | FSXPassengers | Flight1 AE | MATROX TH2GO-D | NTHUSIM | 3-Mits EW230Ust Proj |

Offline fsaviator

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 03:06:02 PM »
BSD,

you are saying exactly what I'm saying...  my point is that if it was meant to be a game, and to target a gaming audience, they would not have ported it to PC but rather to XBox.

I believe they are targeting the PC based older audience who like to simulate flying with a payoff in points and credits to buy Aircraft and scenery (the same as us except our payoff is in the form of some kind of satisfaction or another).  That audience doesn't relate to XBox, but does like to buy a yoke or joystick to make it more real.  They also have the money to buy a scenery pack of say, the Grand Canyon, to go see it.  At the end of the day though...  the 30-50 year old guy didn't download it to fly through hoops in the sky to get points...  he bought it to pretend (simulate) he's a pilot.

To sum up...  a game would have been on Xbox.  The PC based games (Rainbow Six, America's Army, Jane's titles, etc were all very successful back in the late 90's early 2Ks because consoles were still limited...  where are all those games now?  All on consoles because at the end of the day, that is what game buyers own.

 :laugh:

I am convinced this is MS's way of shutting leveling the lucrative add-on field that they limited themselves on when opening up FS franchise.  I bet this time around there will be a fee or royalty involved if Flight is opened up to developers.

Warren
Warren "MTN385"
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Offline jackpilot

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 03:48:00 PM »
One thing is comforting, we lived fairly well without Microsoft for the last two years, addons continued to flow in, and that "peace" allowed us to improve tremendously what we have instead of chasing the  end of another FS 11 Rainbow.

Jack

Offline Maurice

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 04:07:31 PM »
One thing is comforting, we lived fairly well without Microsoft for the last two years, addons continued to flow in, and that "peace" allowed us to improve tremendously what we have instead of chasing the  end of another FS 11 Rainbow.

I'm still chasing the FSX rainbow myself...forever trying to squeeze a bit better performance. Come on comet...I mean Prepar3d :)

Maurice
Gravenhurst, Ontario - Canada

Offline Joe Lavery

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 05:34:28 PM »
A usual Jack chips in with a few pearls of wizdom that I totally agree with. He has a habit of doing that doesn't he?

Way to go Jack... ;)
'Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!'

www.pcpilot.net

Offline simlady/ Karen

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2012, 08:38:02 PM »

I'll have to start my comments with Guys and Gals in future.  ;)

Regards
Joe.

HI Joe, you don't have to start with Guys and Gals... I'm one of the "guys" now... only better looking.  ;D

Offline Joe Lavery

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Re: FLIGHT IS AVAILABLE
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2012, 08:25:37 AM »
Hi Simlady, looking at some of the mug shots here, I've no doubt that's the case. You notice I don't have one of my own here, my wife says it would only frighten the children.  ::)

'Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!'

www.pcpilot.net

 

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