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Author Topic: Gas strut newton for elevation  (Read 1846 times)

Offline kurt-olsson

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Gas strut newton for elevation
« on: December 06, 2017, 10:45:50 AM »
I have read and search this forum and it looks like most people are using gas strut for elevation and springs/rubberband for roll.

I am thinking of 100n and 10cm gas strut. U thing its realistic/good?

Offline jonesthesoftware

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 05:46:44 AM »
Hi
don't know if this helps but the 767 manual gives the following figures
Rotation of control wheel is +65 deg -65deg @37-50NM
Column angle is 9 deg fwd and 11 deg back @ 130-420NM. Rest position is 5 deg fwd.

so I guess if your strut is located at the base of a 1 metre long column then it requires 130-420 Newtons force? I assume these figures take into account the varying forces required by ascent/ descent wind/flaps resistance?

regards
geoff
Building a 767 cockpit

Offline bernard S

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 08:39:17 AM »
i assume you are using the strut for centering ..not feel

Offline kurt-olsson

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 10:35:03 AM »
i assume you are using the strut for centering ..not feel

I think both. To centering but i had in mind that the yokes will feel realistic with the resistance that comes from the struts. Maybe i am wrong and need spring aswell?


Offline kurt-olsson

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 02:34:32 PM »
Hi
don't know if this helps but the 767 manual gives the following figures
Rotation of control wheel is +65 deg -65deg @37-50NM
Column angle is 9 deg fwd and 11 deg back @ 130-420NM. Rest position is 5 deg fwd.

so I guess if your strut is located at the base of a 1 metre long column then it requires 130-420 Newtons force? I assume these figures take into account the varying forces required by ascent/ descent wind/flaps resistance?

regards
geoff

Hi, it does help! Confirms my 100-150nm strut. Thank you

Offline bernard S

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 08:56:20 AM »
emm.  well.bud there is a distinct difference between centering and feel...   

what i mean by feel is not the forces required recentre the control uprights .. .. may i suggest that you now do control loading .. this will give you the feel... you add8ng struts springs god knows what else ..lol.. your almost there in that dark place that requires a commitment    control loading even on x1 control surface is going to be the best bang for your buck in your entire sim build.


Offline jonesthesoftware

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2017, 07:18:21 AM »
Hi
 if you look at the attached pdf you can see how I used 2 gas struts(or gas springs) to give both centreing and resistance/force feedback to my column. I used adjustable gas struts to give different amounts of force for  back and forth
If you want the cad version let me know.
regards
geoff
Building a 767 cockpit

Offline kurt-olsson

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2017, 01:18:39 PM »
Thanks!
One question, are you happy with your implementation?
Does it feel good when flying?

Offline jonesthesoftware

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 03:56:08 AM »
I'm happy with it as it self centres and gives force feedback but as I have never tried the real thing I have nothing to compare it to
Regards
Geoff
Building a 767 cockpit

Offline Ed

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 06:10:19 PM »
I have read and search this forum and it looks like most people are using gas strut for elevation and springs/rubberband for roll.

I am thinking of 100n and 10cm gas strut. U thing its realistic/good?

I used both springs and struts for elevator, and springs for roll. You can see the details on my website. The struts give it that stiffer feel and the springs tend to help it centre. I like the way it feels and will do me until I have funds t go OEM or ACE.
Ed
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http://www.737ngxca.com/

Offline kurt-olsson

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2017, 01:45:58 AM »
I went with springs for the roll. Really easy to implement with the OEM part and it feels nice and centering is perfect 97% of time.

They are noisy but it will be covered in the floor and with other sounds i dont think i will be bothered.

Offline navymustang

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2017, 09:40:39 AM »
Here is another approach to using a spring.
The spring has a carriage assembly that travels through the middle of it. This means the spring can be pulled to compression from both sides.  In this photo, the floor of the sim is at top, the yoke column is coming through the floor to the right. The spring is attached to a  point at the base of the column below it's pivot point, then attached at the other end to the sim main frame structure. The control column can then move forward or back, compressing the spring in either direction. The photo is of the co-pilot side, left of photo is nose of aircraft. Other components visible here are rudder pedal and toe brake mechanics.
Building a full scale 737-800 AATD for home use. Majority of hardware is from Sismo Solutions, software is Prosim under P3D. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors
Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 05:11:30 PM »
Thats a slick Idea...  Spring works in both directions..  Nice.

Thanks
Trevor Hale

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Offline kurt-olsson

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2018, 03:30:17 PM »
I am bumping this again since i have implemented roll with a rubber chord. Clean installation and easy to adjust if i want to.

But the elevation had some problems. I use 8mm chords and they need to be veeery stretched to hold the weight of the columns. Either i have to use like 4-5 rubber chords on each side to get it stable but they are reeeealy tight when full deflected i have to have heavy bolts for making sure it sticks.

I would like to try heavy springs instead.

Can anyone point me into a spring that can give the right feel for elevation?
Maybe a spring used in your own setup.

Thanks.

Offline seedosip

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 08:01:44 AM »
Hi,
While constructing the dual yoke I have tried a lot of different set ups and ended up with 300N gas struts for elevation. It gave me the best centering and feel. Hope this helps and good luck in construction!

Cheers

Offline archen

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Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 08:36:49 AM »
Without mentioning the arm the force acts on 300N doesn't say much. I think you need to specify the arm as well.

Br
Anders

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Offline seedosip

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 09:08:26 AM »
Indeed, you are right, that’s was the reason for me that I had to change different struts and spring to test on huge arm produced. Attached is a rough schematics of the strut vs arm of the control column.

Offline bernard S

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 12:25:38 PM »
easier solution  buy elevator feel unit use springs for centring

Offline kurt-olsson

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Re: Gas strut newton for elevation
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 03:44:25 PM »
Small update. I think the 150nm feels fine, but i actualy dont like this solution and will prob change to rubberband in the future.

I dont like have to go over the ”neutral” position. I dont think you feel it in the real 737 once the hydralics is on.

 

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