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Author Topic: Projectors or 4K Monitors?  (Read 5524 times)

Offline jackpilot

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2018, 01:22:35 PM »
I'll just add my grain of salt (for new members) as old timers already know me  :D.

Simulation allows me to keep on with what I love best: flying airplanes, and what a treat it is to have a full 737 in the hangar!!
This being said I spend all the time I need to prepare meticulously every flight in the 73, using ..."paper maps and approach plates" programming the CDU properly as a back up, and going through all preflight operations.
As I fly the airplane myself (vs VNAV LNAV pushbuttonning) the ratio of looking at my instruments and controls to looking outside the window is about 10 to 1.
Which brings me to my point:
I use ONE Optoma HD with which I manage to fill the two front windows from CPT and FO point of views.
Totally immersive for me from pushback to docking, when I make a turn, the airplane banks not the horizon, when I reduce power to initiate a descent I feel the nose dropping (all helped by a good speakers network) etc etc
Conclusion: Of course a 220 or 180 visual is fantastic and much better but a full coverage of the front windows is more than enough for immersion (IMHO) . Lets put it  that way, you will save thousands of dollars,tons of hair-pulling hours trying to match views, bend  blend, synchronize, change videocards, etc etc .

I single huge outside view is an option also worth  considering, allowing immersion at a fraction of the "panoramic" costs, delivering mamoth FPS with all sliders right and ..piece of mind/reliability.

PS: Nick: your sim is amazing...due respect  ;)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 01:26:12 PM by jackpilot »


Jack

Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2018, 02:11:23 PM »
Sadly, this debate always brings friction to the forum.  Every time I see the discussion come around, I want to lock the thread with a simple (Debated before a bazillion times... Use the search feature of the forum) LOL.

In any case, I hope everyone can keep this ON-TRACK..  Seems like Deja-Vu if you ask me though.
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Offline XOrionFE

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2018, 02:19:10 PM »
I don't think anyone is getting heated or anything.  We are all friends here.   This is all just good healthy debate where no one is right or wrong.    I learned something new out of it today from Fred so is a great thread.

Scott

Offline Trevor Hale

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2018, 02:42:10 PM »
I know, but feels like I could cut the tension with a knife LOL...
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Offline ifeliciano

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2018, 03:00:07 PM »
im·mer·sion
i?m?rZH?n,i?m?rSH?n/
  • Deep mental involvement in something


Everyone has a different threshold of immersion. When I started simming, I used a 17" CRT. It felt immersed to me. I moved on to a 21" CRT, so on and so on, and eventually to 3 32" IPS panels in viewgroups. I don't have a cockpit yet. Still a desk top setup and I feel immersed when I make my daily flights from KDFW to KIAH then KMIA.

Like Jack, my immersion level is not totally driven by eye candy, but by flight prepping and following procedures. If I need to look down at the ground scenery, I just pan the view :D

That being said. PJ or 4K monitors it up to each individual to make that choice. I go with the best I can afford.

Offline Ed

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2018, 04:33:13 PM »
Hi Trevor,

I have to agree with Scott: re: leaning something new,  with your comment as well re: tension. I think it's a good healthy debate though and there is/was a little tension, however   I also learned a few new things as well which is akin to getting a new sim part in the mail :). It's great to hear from those who have been there and have the different experiences.

 Yes it is true this has been debated a bazillion times before, but things in this hobby have also changed a bazillion times too so I hope the thread continues and remains fruitful.

 :2cw:
Ed
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Offline jackpilot

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2018, 04:38:41 PM »
Absolutely, I remember having my first projector image (about 6 feet wide) and the incredible "Whaoo" feeling as I was coming from a 19" monitor.
Then famous Maurice came up with a 180 deg.
Tripple Whaooo factor. And a giant leap forward.
And here I am back and happy with just one proj. with  close to 20 feet diag.

Just saying to the new guys that they can do for a while with only one projector or big TV as there are so many other ways to spend money on the Sim.

Just debating the subject a bit beyond the classic TV/Projector choice.
 :D


Jack

Offline jmlohrenz

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2018, 11:09:01 PM »
This is an awesome thread for me to read.  Having just ventured into this expanded immersion from my current setup it is great to hear everyone's opinions on this topic.  I've been struggling to figure out where and what to do as there are so many different options / aspects to look at and I'm not sure where to start.  Very overwhelming!!  I've looked at building my own cockpit, even got plans from sim-samurai.  Looked at purchasing some that are for sale here.  Wondering what panels I should investigate, etc...

I've got nothing beneficial to add to this topic, but it is nice to see a civilized conversation / debate about a topic.  Many other online communities I belong to, feelings get hurt, people get ticked off, and topics get locked right away so thank you all for being mature enough to have different opinions!!

Offline blueskydriver

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2018, 01:08:01 PM »
I am guessing the discussions will soon change:

https://youtu.be/imIrem-9hEc

or

https://youtu.be/KHSdObeUdxI

John

| FSX | FDS-MIP OVRHD SYS CARDS FC1| PM | PMDG 737-700 | UTX | GEX | UT7 | ASE | REX2 | AES | TSR | IS | TOPCAT | AvilaSoft EFB | OC CARDS & OVRHD GAUGES| SIMKITS | SW 3D Lights | FS2CREW2010 | FSXPassengers | Flight1 AE | MATROX TH2GO-D | NTHUSIM | 3-Mits EW230Ust Proj |

Offline Captbrian

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2018, 01:37:09 PM »
Well I sure opened up a big can of worms here,  And I am Glad I did!   Because I had not found much in the way of 4K TV's Vs Projectors with Flight Sims.  But this has been so Awesome and gave me some real insight.  While I don't have the budget of some of you to run 5 high rigs at this point it sure gives me and some of the other newbies some resolve on which way to go!   Thanks so go much!  I am sure I will have many more questions.  :)

Offline Marco ERJ

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2018, 12:37:28 PM »
Hi Jack,

How far from the shell does your screen sit? At 240" diagonal, how does the "patio screen" effect impact the quality of your visuals? How much do you notice the effect?
One of the things I've always wondered has been how large the projection should be in order to provide the feel that you are actually "siting in the real world" rather than looking at a projection screen. I know this is likely not too much of an issue; as others have pointed out here, we were all happily simming at some point using our little single monitors...meaning we eventually get used to whatever limitations are imposed on us. But since I am just starting to delve further into my plans for visuals, I want to believe I am pursuing the course that I believe will bring most satisfaction. And to your point, that may well be a single very large front view.
Thanks in advance!

Marco

Offline jackpilot

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2018, 03:11:08 PM »
No screen door effect from the pilot seat as the  projector is HD.
Distance to screen is about 10 feet.
The enclosed shell including backwall also helps to trick the brains...lol


Jack

Offline RayS

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2018, 04:23:57 PM »
Same here with Screen door effect. I just received my Optomo 1080p Darbies yesterday and did a dry run with 1 of them. Projectors will sit a bit closer to the screen with about 40% more resolution. Unless your nose is up against the display surface, any screen door effect is negligible. With eyes about 2 feet or more away, can't even tell.
Ray Sotkiewicz

Offline Bob Reed

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2018, 04:28:01 PM »
Same here with Screen door effect. I just received my Optomo 1080p Darbies yesterday and did a dry run with 1 of them. Projectors will sit a bit closer to the screen with about 40% more resolution. Unless your nose is up against the display surface, any screen door effect is negligible. With eyes about 2 feet or more away, can't even tell.

I would love to see some video! Always good to see what others are doing.

Offline RayS

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2018, 04:35:34 PM »
I won't be installing these units until the man cave is finished. Probably late Summer.

James is going to help me ferry the Beech to a Beechcraft Service Center, located in Boise, Idaho... probably in a few more weeks.
Ray Sotkiewicz

Offline Philip

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2018, 04:44:51 PM »
This thread is really a great read. I'm awaiting the base dual connection for the real yokes and columns that I finally have and will pop it on ,hopefully if it arrives by next week. Then off to figuring out what to do for the 210/220fov screen framing (anyone have plans for that?), then getting a screen from Carl's place. Unsure of what is an ideal height, length, and best material that they offer for the best image on the screen. Ideally I'd like to look out the windows and up/down, without seeing the framing of the screen, and keep as full of an immersion as possible.

Offline jackpilot

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2018, 06:19:55 PM »
Same here with Screen door effect. I just received my Optomo 1080p Darbies yesterday and did a dry run with 1 of them. Projectors will sit a bit closer to the screen with about 40% more resolution. Unless your nose is up against the display surface, any screen door effect is negligible. With eyes about 2 feet or more away, can't even tell.

I would love to see some video! Always good to see what others are doing.

If you scroll up this post look at the picture I posted. The outside view is gate 54 at Montreal Intnl,  no screen door effect


Jack

Offline navymustang

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2018, 08:27:49 PM »
Philip, go look at Northern Flight Sim and his screen. I have bought three rom him over the last two yeas and I really like the end result.

http://northernflightsim.com/circular-projection-screen/
Building a full scale 737-800 AATD for home use. Majority of hardware is from Sismo Solutions, software is Prosim under P3D. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors
Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

Offline Philip

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2018, 07:27:34 PM »
Philip, go look at Northern Flight Sim and his screen. I have bought three rom him over the last two yeas and I really like the end result.

http://northernflightsim.com/circular-projection-screen/

Yes thank you, I've seen his stuff. A neighbor of mine about a block away is actually a welder and has a side gig going on out of his garage. All he needs is the plans (still on the hunt for) and he will put it together for way less. Thank you though.

Offline Philip

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2018, 11:44:41 PM »
Would anyone have any insight on a good height to the 210ish fov projector screen? I'm thinking that the more screen that needs to fill in with an image, the less crisp and clear the image will be. Obviously the closer the projectors are to the screen the better, but trying to find the perfect balance. Ideally I would like to be able to look out of the windows and look up or down without seeing the frame of the screen. I've been reading anywhere between 5 - 7 feet in the height of the screen. The bigger the screen though, the less crisp and clear. I plan on using Flyelise, and am aware they have a screen designer program, but figured I'd see opinions of folks that have it up and running already.

Offline FredK

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2018, 09:13:39 AM »
With all due respect....I don't think we want to go through the agony of the screen size debate again that has somewhat painfully been argued in this thread and in many others over the years.

The agonizing debate on this has only served to confirm the very obvious conclusion on this.....if you increase the size of your screen area, you decrease the sharpness of your resolution clarity.  Anything in the middle is a compromise at both ends.

In that regard.....only YOU can decide what is right for YOU!  There is no other correct answer to the question that can be given!

The best and pretty much unanimous advice that has been given here is that you need to do your own homework on this.  Experiment setting up your projector at different differences from a wall...any wall....to get a sense of what you are comfortable with.  Also, arrange visits to see other setups.

Fred K
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 09:33:38 AM by FredK »
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Offline jackpilot

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2018, 09:56:34 AM »
Until affordable new tech appears ( as mentionned earlier here) basically all has been said on the subject (IMHO).
(Hey Nat, right ?)  :laugh:


Jack

Offline Sam Llorca

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2018, 12:16:44 PM »

Offline Flying_Fox

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2018, 09:45:13 PM »
Until affordable new tech appears ( as mentionned earlier here) basically all has been said on the subject (IMHO).

I know one new point. ;)
Using monitors/TV screens you will never be able to make life-like video/images like this:



So, one day real 737 captain contacted me through Instagram and said:
"Seen your videos, but could not believe my eyes... It can't be possible.. I really have no words.
Never seen anything like this. Fully functional simulator at home! Cannot tell apart from the real plane!"  :o

 :angel:

Nick


Offline XOrionFE

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Re: Projectors or 4K Monitors?
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2018, 11:04:35 PM »
Opinions may vary....

https://youtu.be/h9iNzqmg8kY

 

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