B737-700

[jackpilot]

Hi Guys
Would someone know the best (engines out) glide data for the 700.?
Also, what is the recommended procedure to prepare for landing and land with high obstacle, (places like Sion, Kathmandu..etc) mean having to drop fast on approach without picking up excessive speed .

[Boeing Skunk Works]

I don't know the glide figures, but for getting down in a hurry about all you can really do is use the book values for a full flap landing. Lighter is better.

Not sure of the 737 charateristics, but the the 727 at a light weight can go all the way down to about 110 KIAS at 40 flaps and the nose pushed over about 7° down. I don't like doing this; it makes me nervous pointing the nose at the ground. It nets about 1200 FPM descent rate. Almost double of the norm.

London City is a prime example of this. The airplane just will not descend fast enough unless you point the nose down. It'll stall out first on that 5° glideslope. That is really a tricky approach in a big jet.

[saabpilot]

A B737-700 has a Vsig of 85 KIAS, at sea level, Flaps 30 and 36300 Kg GW.
Then you are in trouble 
- Stick shaker speed is 90 KIAS at same weight and level - 5 kts over stall speed.
1.23 x Vsig = 105 KIAS is min safe approach speed in the above case.

The slower you can fly the faster you are able to descend in terms of v/s after passing any obstacle in the approach path.

All engine out  in B737 - See FMC - ENG OUT CRZ page.
Approx. descend speed 210 KIAS at 52 tonnes all the way to a final   (also called MAX L/D speed.)
Add +5 KIAS for every 2000 Kg GW increase.

RoD clean will then be approx. 2000 fpm.
One 180 deg turn takes 2000 feet and a 360 takes 4000 feet.

Bjorn   

[jackpilot]

Scambling.. to check that on the sim
Thanks a ton
Jack

[MLeavy737]

Jack,
  Its all about configration on those types of approches and not allowing ATC to fly your airplane.. Sometimes they like to tell you to maintain 250kts until some point at which it becomes impossible to slow, configure and get down.

My advice without looking at a specific approach plate is to at least be GR DN / FL 15 on speed when the approach starts to get "steep". Sometimes you need to be  fully configured FL 30/40 to do these things.

Most airlines have a special page in the Jepps that give configuration information based on pilot data and historical problems encounterd with that approach. Basically all they say is where you should configure and what speed you should be at certain fixes.

Mike Leavy

[jackpilot]

Thank you Mike.
As usual, its all about being ahead of the airplane, not behind.
Not an easy one though.
Cheers
JP

[Boeing Skunk Works]

I wish many of the approaches in Europe had that configuration information on the chart. Some of it really is trial and error without it until you figure out what works at a certain airport for a certain procedure.

At LOWI I'm configured by RTT at 20° & 150 KIAS for the 26 approach, but that came about from experimentation. Same for Sion, London City, (the experimentation, not the configuration) etc. In terms of descent profile, London City has to the the hardest for me to get into and still stop in time. It can be done, but it's mightly close. Worse that trying to set a 727 down on the old Meig's Field if you ever saw that video.

For about anywhere else a 'normal' approach is performed I'm configured by at least the OM, usually a mile or two before.

I forgot about LKPR, Prague. The RACK 24 arrival is a real handful if you hand fly the entire procedure. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I go in to Prague, that arrival and approach never gets any easier. Throw in night time and crappy weather and you may as well be flying into Kai Tak without the mountain in front of you. It doesn't look so difficult on paper.

[saabpilot]

You like to test a hairy one ?

Then I suggest Paro Airport in Bhutan 
It is used by B737::s (one airline only) and has a MDA of 12500 feet.
Sits in a valley with steep mountains on the sides - I believe you can find older Jepp charts on the net.
Be aware - in FS you do need to download Holger Sandmanns Himalaya mesh as the mountain elevations are all wrong in default FS9 and the airport will sit in a "bucket".

LOWI is not too difficult nowadays except for a go-around or a circling.
Then you do have to know your procedure.   
LOWI is also used by B757 (Thomas Cook).

The more "difficult" ones requires special checkout for the crew so you will hopefully arrive well prepaired.
Also as Mike stated we have special airport pages in our IAL books (SAS) as reference that thoroughly describes what to expect and how to best handle it.

Bjorn

FLY SAFE - Slow and low   

[jackpilot]

Hi Bjorn

While we are at it, is the real LOWI loc (26) as offset  as it is in default FS9 ?

This thread is very interesting as it deals with slow flight, which is one of the basics of flight training and  is actually fun to practice with a 73 (within the limitations of the flight model)
My Posky 700 seems fairly close to Bjorn and Mike's data.
I tried manual, at different GW, 250KIAS level at 10 000 , then config GR DN 30° to 120KIAS and practiced the classic maneuvers,
Needs usual rudder and power adjust.....
Did not check what the FMC would indicate (if it does with PM!)  but I wrote down  the figures and will print a nice data sheet for my cockpit
Try it Guys, tons of fun, and I think it tests the quality of any flight model.
Jack

[jackpilot]

SLOW FLIGHT
Try that
LOWI to Linz

IMC (do not see trees on climb out) , Level off at  12000 ft and down to  120KIAS all the way thereafter...juggling with flaps, power and pitch ...did it and sheer fun!

Approach with the Posky 700 I can manage 1700 fpm descent, stable at 120 KIAS ,  Flaps 40 Gear down then on short final back to more standard VS for a nice greaser!

Totally nuts but fun!
Sorry Guys , I am in my Slow Flight Mooood!

[Boeing Skunk Works]

That must have taken over an hour to get to Linz at that speed.

[jackpilot]

You bet ! That's GA speeds. I was surprised how stable the AC was once configured, but I would not attempt "low and slow" with a real 73. (A nightmare config for an airline CFO!)