Wideview vs TH2Go

[XOrionFE]

Still not entirely happy with state of my X-plane setup I also am running Wideview.   Can Jon Boe, Nat or one of the other Wideview users answer a question?   If I want Ultimate Traffic working with Widetraffic do I actually run UT2 on the client computers or do I just install it but not let it load at startup.   I assume UT2 adds airplane textures so I installed on all 5 of my computers but I assume you don't actually run on the clients and only allow to run on the server.   Is this correct?   Note my server is still also acting as a visual also but it has 6 cores and a 680 card so I can't imaging it should have any trouble.   I still have to mess with Intellismooth on the other four clients.   Be nice to get this dialed in...

Scott

[sluyt050]

Still not entirely happy with state of my X-plane setup I also am running Wideview.   Can Jon Boe, Nat or one of the other Wideview users answer a question?   If I want Ultimate Traffic working with Widetraffic do I actually run UT2 on the client computers or do I just install it but not let it load at startup.   I assume UT2 adds airplane textures so I installed on all 5 of my computers but I assume you don't actually run on the clients and only allow to run on the server.   Is this correct?   Note my server is still also acting as a visual also but it has 6 cores and a 680 card so I can't imaging it should have any trouble.   I still have to mess with Intellismooth on the other four clients.   Be nice to get this dialed in...

Scott

Hi Scott,
I do not have UT2 but this ref. may help: http://www.wideview.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1130&SearchTerms=ut2
From what I can remember from my own experiments, it's more difficult to get the synchronisation right if you use the server for visuals too.

[Nat Crea]

GDay Scott

I dont have UT2 (only FTX AI Traffic).
My feeling would be that you should only have the AI aircraft installed on your clients.
Your Client traffic settings in FSX should all be set to ZERO, with only the Server traffic
turned on. (Looks like Jon Boe had it working)
Hope it works out.

Nat

[XOrionFE]

Hey guys,

I think I figured this out yesterday.  I have UT2 installed on all.  I only allow it to load on the master and don't allow it to run on the others.   Widetraffic then syncs it correctly from the master to the slaves and seems to work quite well.   Weather still is horrible syncing unfortunately but I got all else smoothed out.  Then after hours of work on this I finally get to the point where I can do a full flight from KLAS to KLAX.   Halfway there my right side view started showing what looked like a smoke trail (contrail) running right out the right wing tip and a few minutes later the master FSX machine dumped with the typical FSX Fatal error middle finger in your face message.   I just about picked up that sledge hammer to smash that computer to pieces.

Man this hobby sucks at times.   I finally decided that for me at least...Wideview is just way too much effort in order to get 5 screens running right at 1080.   X-Plane is so easy by comparison.   I have come to the conclusion of this testing and have gone back to a surround view with three screens for FSX running off one computer much like the projector setups.   Frames can get down to the low teens in heavy airport scenery but otherwise acceptable most of the time with the 680 running it.   

I took one of my computers off the cockpit to run a VC setup for PMDG birds (737 and 777) and will continue to await a stable and more complete X-Plane/Avionics combo which I hope will be the case within 6 months. 

One other thought on what I have learned...for a surround visual in FSX the least expensive setup from a dollar and time perspective still appears to be 3 projectors and a single albeit powerful FSX computer.  You won't get the clarity of monitors but there is always a give and take with any setup.   If you want the clarity of monitors go with 3 60 or 70" screens on one computer and give up the back window views.

Finally, after also breaking a yoke column yesterday and having to spend 4 hours fixing it I caution anyone getting into this hobby to limit what they do.  Stick with a desktop VC setup for the ultimate in maintaining your sanity and if you must brave the world of 737 cockpit building....buy a Jetmax and 3 large LCD screens and call it a day :-).

Scott

[Jon Boe]

Hi Scott,

I'm glad that you got the UT issues sorted.  What I did was install UT on just the server PC, then move a copy of the UT folder generated in SimObjects to the three IG's.  Then add the simobjects path from the server fsx.cfg file as shown below.

SimObjectPaths.6=SimObjects\UT2 Aircraft

You get the same result without having to load UT2 on each PC, then shut it down on the clients.

Regarding the Wideview weather on your wideview weather settings what are you using?  I have been using real world weather for a long time and while I get a re-synch or two during a flight it's not nearly as bad as what you are reporting.  I am using Active Sky on the Server and the textures from Ultimate Environment X for the IG's, therefore generating no conflict in the weather as no weather programs are being run on the IG's.

Also, if you have VHHX loaded do you have the BGL to add the UT traffic to Kai Tak?

Cheers,

Jon

[XOrionFE]

Hi Scott,

I'm glad that you got the UT issues sorted.  What I did was install UT on just the server PC, then move a copy of the UT folder generated in SimObjects to the three IG's.  Then add the simobjects path from the server fsx.cfg file as shown below.

SimObjectPaths.6=SimObjects\UT2 Aircraft

You get the same result without having to load UT2 on each PC, then shut it down on the clients.

Regarding the Wideview weather on your wideview weather settings what are you using?  I have been using real world weather for a long time and while I get a re-synch or two during a flight it's not nearly as bad as what you are reporting.  I am using Active Sky on the Server and the textures from Ultimate Environment X for the IG's, therefore generating no conflict in the weather as no weather programs are being run on the IG's.

Also, if you have VHHX loaded do you have the BGL to add the UT traffic to Kai Tak?

Cheers,

Jon

Thank you Jon,

That is great info on the UT setup.   

As for weather, I have tried each of the options and the best so far for me was the selection for interpolation in Wideview.   I have REX loaded on each but only for the textures.   The weather engine is ASE which actually runs on a seperate computer through Simconnect.   It is usually good across 4 of 5 but always seems to have one that is out of sync.   And the one out of sync changes so not specific to any one computer.   I have seen others report this on various forums as well.

A big difference is that my main FSX computer is also the front view which I know is not recommended so I am probably bringing some pain on myself but I just cannot fathom buying another computer for this setup.   That would be a total of 8 pcs to run the cockpit.  Yikes.

Scott

[sluyt050]

Scott, from my own experience I'm pretty sure that your problems with Wideview are caused by the server having also to  produce a visual. I only could check this for 1280 x 800 resolution and 3 clients. My setup is quite stable and runs smooth up to now (knock knock). In case of full HD and 5 clients I think it is of utmost importance to relieve your server from producing scenery. I agree that 1 FSX view with 1 PC is simple but you have to take the geometrical distortion on the side screens for granted. 

[XOrionFE]

Scott, from my own experience I'm pretty sure that your problems with Wideview are caused by the server having also to  produce a visual. I only could check this for 1280 x 800 resolution and 3 clients. My setup is quite stable and runs smooth up to now (knock knock). In case of full HD and 5 clients I think it is of utmost importance to relieve your server from producing scenery. I agree that 1 FSX view with 1 PC is simple but you have to take the geometrical distortion on the side screens for granted. 

Actually, there is no distortion because I still use 3 undocked windows each with a different fov just like a projector setup.   Only difference is that you cannot go all the way around but only 150 degrees on 3 60" screens running 50 degree each...but still off one computer with surround.   I just don't get nearly the frame rates I would if running individual computers and Wideview. 

Your right of course about the need for a dedicated server for Wideview.   I think that is a must based on all of the comments from you, Jon, and Nat and my own experiences.  No short cutting this...

Scott

[Nat Crea]

Scott sorry for the delay...

Ive been chasing my WideView tail since building new computers...

In the end the ONLY thing that gave me smooth results was Unlimited
frame rate on Server and Clients, contrary to what others are experiencing.

I also tried the Center Visual as the Server and there was no discernible difference
in performance (bear in my mind all three computers are 3770K @4.5Ghz!)
The Widvew settings are almost default + Booster + Force TCP Nagle.

As for Cloud syncing, "WX theme" works perfect as does "User defined" If controlled
by Sim-Avionics IOS.

Nat

[FredK]

I am very satisfied with my WideView setup.

I have a dedicated WideView server and three clients (each are nearly three year old I7 quad cores without any overclocking or tweaking so nothing really special there).......

I find that a dedicated server is a must for optimal performance. 

As with Nat I have found that setting the frame rate at "Unlimited" on server and clients definitely works best for me.  I have gone back and forth on that many times and am completely certain on that. I am using FSX real world weather set to update every 15 minutes.

Terrain display and UT AI traffic always sync very well....no stutters for terrain, some slight stuttering for AI traffic.  It all works solidly....frankly I cannot remember even one instance of WideView crashing. The only minor issue is that sometimes individual clouds do not sync.  This happens about 5% of the time during a flight and usually only when there is a heavy weather pattern.  Frankly I rarely even notice so it works for me. General weather patterns sync very well (cloud layers etc.).

Fred

[sluyt050]

I am very satisfied with Wideview smoothness too and use UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30 in FSX for my dedicated server and 3 clients. However, combined with the Nvidia VSync tweak (works only for full screen!). My projectors refresh rate is 60 Hz. It is thoroughly explained and tested by Kosta in his FSX/P3D Software and Hardware Guide ref. http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/.

[Maurice]

I am very satisfied with Wideview smoothness too and use UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=30 in FSX for my dedicated server and 3 clients. However, combined with the Nvidia VSync tweak (works only for full screen!). My projectors refresh rate is 60 Hz. It is thoroughly explained and tested by Kosta in his FSX/P3D Software and Hardware Guide ref. http://kostasfsworld.wordpress.com/fsx-software-and-hardware-guide/.

Strange! I don't use Wideview but I tried the Kosta tweak both in my old sim with 3 undocked windows and now with one PC and one view and the frame rates are much worse in large busy airports in most cases as compared to using unlimited fps.

Seems like I am the only one not loving this tweak for some reason or am I?

Maurice

[sluyt050]

In the contrary Maurice, Nat and Fred use unlimited frame rate as well. Anyway, I will test it on a busy place to watch the difference.

[Nat Crea]

You know, with a modern powerful cpu, the best
tweaks I found are NOTHING. Most tweaks are for older
cpus. If you ever get tired of tweaking and tweaking, 
delete your FSX.cfg and breathe

Nat

[markfire]

Guys

Great discussion by the way. If I may add my small contribution to the mix!

I have wideview running smooth as silk with very high settings. The server is running an outside view also. For me the biggest gain was using kostas tweaks and running all pcs at 30 fps locked.  I have now disabled wideview weather and am testing fsglobal real weather. Early days but initial tests show an improvement in wideview  performance.

Check my posts for updates.

Good luck

Mark

[iwik]

Nat,
You said earlier in the thread that you added another 3 3770k pc's to the mix.
Can you please elaborate at to what Motherboard/Vid card you used.
Thanks
Les

[sluyt050]

You know, with a modern powerful cpu, the best
tweaks I found are NOTHING. Most tweaks are for older
cpus. If you ever get tired of tweaking and tweaking, 
delete your FSX.cfg and breathe

Nat

With all due respect Nat, I disagree with you since FSX is not capable of taking full advantage of modern cpu's and gpu's. Imo Kosta proved by numerous tests on nVidia based systems that internal frame rate limiting together with other tweaks he describes, offer better performance and smoothness. One might say that FSX frame rate limiting would put a burden on the cpu. Here in a sense I agree with you that a fast cpu will help greatly. I also agree that deleting your FSX.CFG could help but I would do this only as a last step in case of a serious issue that cannot be solved, or just to create a fresh start for tweaking.

[markfire]

I agree. After years of testing fsx with various tweaks etc, the biggest improvements by far are with the Kosta tweak. I actually only use Bufferpools=0 and the rest is down to nvidia inspector. I can confirm the smoothness is not down to one CPU/motherboard/ram combination as I use a mixture of specs in my network. I do however recommend the nvidia 670gtx 2gb ram which is the only constant (great card).


My software consists of FSX sp1 and 2, a large selection of UK 2000 airports, Orbx airports and global, Rex textures ( copied and pasted throughout the network pcs) and only a couple of payware aircraft over the fsx default.


Fsx settings consist of all scenery sliders on high, no traffic as I use vatsim online,  I do use Orbx Go utility to set my config at 4096 and wideview= true plus startup my fsx. It's a nice piece of software that alters your fsx.cfg just before fsx starts, thus giving you many options to change the config without having to manually edit it. I also use LOD=6.5 through the same utility which seems to suit my system.
I'll post up a couple of screen shots of my wideview server/client setup later today (uk time) so you guys can compare with yours.


Mark

[Nat Crea]

Hi Edward,

I think we can all agree, that there is no single solution that works for every setup.
Some see better results with locked frame rates, some(I) get the opposite.
Some see benefits with Kosta's tweaks, some don't.
I was just adding my results to the discussion, and that with 3 networked 3770K's @4.5Ghz,
I get the best fluidity so far, so why tweak?
I still believe with powerful CPU's you don't 'need' to tweak any further (or as much as we used to. People usually tweak because they need to get more performance, true?(I was serial tweaker, trust me!).
Its like racing a stock V8 against a supercharged 4 cylinder I guess, the 4cyl needs a lot of
work to compete...?

Im still open to experimenting...what would you guys say are the 2 or 3 best tweaks to try?

@Les, I always use Gigabyte MB's (the EasyTune feature is the best), plus current GPU are 660Ti's.

Nat

[sluyt050]

Thanks Nat, I like the serial tweaker  !

As Mark said, an important part is done by nVidia inspector. Concerning FSX, for me the trio 'Bufferpools, UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT and VSync' are most important in terms of performance and smoothness.

(I use i7 and i5 overclocked quad cores on ASUS mobo's and Geforce GTX 660 & 680).

[markfire]

Here's my wideview configs.

[FredK]

An important consideration here is that we are sort of mixing apples and oranges with this discussion.....that is, what may be optimal for FSX nominally may not be optimal for WideView network performance.

I do most of my flying in the Northeast USA corridor.  My home airports are JFK/EWR/LGA including corresponding airport scenery addons and photorealistic scenery that covers much of the area that I fly in.  This is arguably the ultimate stress test situation for FSX.  I have read elsewhere that using "unlimited" FPS for WideView can be an advantage in such cases.  Again, it works for me as I have tested such a number of times. My actual FPS on the ground at JFK rarely dips below 23, usually somewhat higher.  Once in the air I am at 50+.  No system crashes ever.  This is with no tweaking and no overclocking.

But I agree that FSX has always been very system specific regarding optimal configuration.

Fred

[markfire]

Fred


Agreed, but I have found after numerous tests and many hours that there is correlation between a smooth, well performing fsx and wideview. Since setting up fsx with nvidia inspector and the tweaks mentioned below it's become a different animal, well behaved!


I know that the magic fix may not work for everyone's rig, but for me and a lot of other users out there it does.


I should mention that I used to be a TH2go user and swore by it, but after using wideview there was no turning back!  Yes you have to install everything multiple times (5x in my case), buy more hardware, buy another house and sell the kids, but the results are worth it. Not to mention the FOV and perspective from the cockpit which was never quite right with the TH2Go.


I guess to sum up, whatever you got, if it works for you, that's all that matters.


Nice to meet someone else who's happy with their Pit!


Good luck


Mark

[iwik]

Hi Guys,
Mark and Fred I fully agree. Really the bottom line is what you are happy with is all that counts. Its very hard for comparisons to be made when we all know rigs perform differently
even those that are identical.
Sometimes striving to achieve what others have done can just be share hell.
I to am a long time Wideview user and at max had 9 views with fs9
Really do like Wideview and agree the xtra agro is worth it if you are serious.

Les

[FredK]

Mark....Just to keep the record accurate......

I do use Nvidia Inspector but no other tweaks.  And yes, I agree that does make a difference.

Fred