Computer Problems

[HarryZ]

Computers...arrrggghhh!!!

My original test with the Nivida 660 and surround view for the 3 projectors proved very well with FPS sitting at 30, my max setting.  Yesterday, I started the computer and a problem I had 2 video cards ago returned.  Just as Windows 7 starts, I get the blue screen of death and within a few seconds, the computer reboots and all is fine.  I spent months a couple of years ago trying to find the cause of that and no success.  Only when I purchased the 570 card did it go away. Now it has returned with the new 660 and only happens when I start the computer after it's been off for a while. Rebooting under normal circumstances is fine.

As well, the system, on occasion, has run incredibly slowly, taking up to 10 seconds after clicking on an icon for a reaction. Flying this afternoon my sim dropped to 10 FPS, would go back up to 30 and then drop down again.  The clouds would flash at times, I would get some tearing and then all would go OK.  And of course, all of this is intermittent!!  I suspect something in the Nivida Inspector settings may be causing this but haven't been able find out what so far.

Tonight, I do another test and the FPS stays at 30. No problems. I've used AS 20012, Opus FX and FS X's own internet wx and it really didn't matter one way or the other.  I'll be damned what the problem may be.



Harry
Report to

[ColinB]

I suspect a RAM problem, I strongly recommend doing a full memory test if you could copy down what the blue screen error is (usually says in the first couple or 3 lines of the error) and put it here it would be helpful, you can also check your error log within windows.

Also check to see what process are running when your using Flight Sim and if possible post a screen shot of them in order of most memory used.

[Maurice]

"As well, the system, on occasion, has run incredibly slowly, taking up to 10 seconds after clicking on an icon for a reaction."

Harry, when the above happens, do you have enough time to start the task manager and see what process is taking up all the CPU time?

Also, as Colin mentioned, do a memory test by booting from a bootable CD which starts the memory test automatically. You don't want to run a memory test when Windows is running as well.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

I am thinking you have a loose ram chip(s) (strip). Likely, by removing and installing video cards, you caused the ram to be moved enough that the MB is reading a false contact error. In fact, I solved a similar issue with a computer that would be slow on start-up, work just fine for days, and then I'd turn it off to return the next day too see it getting BSD and etc.

First, I tried resetting the video cards, and then I unplugged and plugged in every connector, as well as I even replaced the MB battery. I went as far as actually switching the computer out for a different one because it was being used for my Capt's PFD/ND screen. Anyhow, I called it my "Gremlins" computer and when the problems happened to show up, I'd just say it was a Gremlin night and call it quits (until I switched it out).

After all that, I never thought about the RAM in the sense of pulling it out, and then putting it back in the same slots or switching them around within the slots. Well, I did that last week and can you guess what happened? It works perfectly! No more problems or GREMLINS!!!

Currently, it is not online for the sim, but it will be soon. If anything, I'll use it for PMSounds. So, I suggest you check it out or pull it out and put it back in...the RAM that is.

John

[HarryZ]

Harry, when the above happens, do you have enough time to start the task manager and see what process is taking up all the CPU time?

Maurice,

One of the first things I try and do is try and run the task manager but the response at that time is beyond slow.

I'll run the memory test and see what I come up with.

[HarryZ]

Hi John,

I'll check the RAM connection tonight.  Many thanks.

Harry

[HarryZ]

OK, here's what I've done tonight:

1. Checked the RAM chips....all securely inserted.
2. Did a memory test and all is well.
3. Did a one hour flight and all went well except one sector where the clouds got very thick and the frame rate dropped down to 12-14. Presume there were 3 or 4 levels of cloud being drawn by Opus FX which would explain the FPS drop.  As soon as the wx cleared a bit, the FPS popped up to 30 again.
4. Still getting the BOD on cold start-up. I'll change the Startup/Recovery setting tomorrow to stop the auto reboot from happening so I can view the BOD and write down some info.

I wonder what would cause that BOD on initial boot and then the problem goes away on the reboot.

Harry

[Joe Lavery]

Harry, I had a similar issue about a year ago and went through all the usual suggestions, but luckily for me I have a friend with a rather sophisticated set of electronic test instruments.
It turned out to be a hairline crack in the motherboard, or more correctly one of the tracks on the motherboard. When the system was first powered up it was cold and the lack of continuity in the track caused the BSOD. On the second reboot it had been on just long enough to expand the track and close the crack so everything worked OK.

Apparently he found the fault with an oscilloscope and some freeze spray.
I decided to replace the motherboard a couple of weeks later and it's been fine ever since.

Of course I have no idea if this is a similar problem that you're having, but it's another avenue to think about.

Joe.

[Maurice]

"Still getting the BOD on cold start-up"

I would certainly begin to suspect something which needs to warm up before operating properly like a disk drive for instance. If by cold startup you meant the first startup of the day or after a long cooling period, this is what I would try:

1: Power up the system but prevent it from booting to Windows by removing the power to the disk drive thus preventing it from warming up.
2: Keep the power on for a while until everything else warms up
3: Re-connect the disk cable and try booting up.
4: If it boots right away, the disk drive is not the problem.
5: if it does not boot the first time, shut the system down, let it cool and then power it back up but prevent it from booting to Windows by going into the Bios and changing the boot device to a CD for instance and loading a non-bootable CD. This will allow the disk drive to warm up.
6: Change the Bios back to normal and try booting up. If it boots the first time, then the disk drive may be the problem. It it does not boot the first time, then it might be the power supply needing to warm up or heaven forbid, the motherboard or CPU

Anyway, you get the idea. If it is a warming up problem, you should be able to isolate the cause. It's a long shot but sometimes you have to go for the long shot

By the way, are there any errors in the Windows event viewer?

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

Sounds like a classic over clocking issue to me.  Is the CPU overclocked?  If so I would set to normal and try that for a while.  If your problem goes away you have an over locking issue somewhere with one of your settings, voltages, etc.

Scott

[ColinB]

unfortunately BSOD is very vague unless you have the info from the report, you should be able to get that from within windows by looking at the events manager.

BSOD is a generic hardware error and can be caused by literally anything from a spec of dust in the wrong place to a full blown static surge which will eventually fry the whole system.

[HarryZ]

Joe/Maurice,

Thanks for the info and suggestions.  But the strange thing is prior to installing the new 660 card, there wasn't a problem. Before I had the previous 570 card (9800) it was the same problem.  The entire time I was using the 570, everything was fine. 

I'll keep plugging away.

Harry

[HarryZ]

Sounds like a classic over clocking issue to me.  Is the CPU overclocked?  If so I would set to normal and try that for a while.  If your problem goes away you have an over locking issue somewhere with one of your settings, voltages, etc.

Scott

Scott,

The CPU is overclocked but it has been overclocked for several months while I was using a 570 video card and it was never an issue. Perhaps the O/C now doesn't get along with the new 660.  I'll check that out.  Thanks for your tip.

Harry

[HarryZ]

unfortunately BSOD is very vague unless you have the info from the report, you should be able to get that from within windows by looking at the events manager.

BSOD is a generic hardware error and can be caused by literally anything from a spec of dust in the wrong place to a full blown static surge which will eventually fry the whole system.

Colin,

I'll have look at the Events Manager today.  Don't know if it gets a chance to register anything because the BSOD occurs almost immediately after the I see the Windows Logo at start-up.  Will let you know what I find.

Harry

[HarryZ]

I'll have look at the Events Manager today.  Don't know if it gets a chance to register anything because the BSOD occurs almost immediately after the I see the Windows Logo at start-up.  Will let you know what I find.

As I thought, the EM didn't show anything of any significance as to why the BSOD appeared.

But get this....the computer cold booted and for the first time in 2 weeks, the BSOD did not appear!! Go figure.  I've changed re-boot option to keep the BSOD visible until such time as I manually re-boot so hopefully I can get some info from that when it happens again.

Harry

[HarryZ]

Got the BSOD death late last night and was able to see the cause at the time:

IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

Windows issues a "stop" command because in most cases, a driver is trying to access a memory page that it shouldn't or a virus scanner is doing something faulty.  In this case, it's likely a video card driver. I can remember when I had the problem about 1 1/2 years ago that the fault indicator changed often so I'll wait and see what I get during the next few cold boots.

Fix suggestions are to access the last known good configuration (which won't likely work since it would be before I installed the new 660) or disable the memory cache in the BIOS.  Don't know the ramifications of doing that.

Stay tuned.

Harry

[Maurice]

I'm sure you have the latest video drivers but just in case, what version are you using (latest one being 310.90 )?

Maurice

[HarryZ]

I'm sure you have the latest video drivers but just in case, what version are you using (latest one being 310.90 )?

Maurice

The latest...310.90.

I got the BSOD again today on a cold boot but it didn't give a cause this time. That's a new one for me!

My performance problems appear to be fixed. I've removed the Active Sky 2012 cloud textures and replaced them with Flight 1's Flight Environment's clouds. Added a couple of more tweaks to the fsx.cfg file and a couple in Invidia Inspector and it kept at or close to the max 30 setting for most of the flight.

Harry

[Kennair]

Harry for BSOD's in Win7 I'd be suspecting Memory, Temps and/or PSU.  Given it only started after installing the 660 perhaps the PSU isn't up to the task, or at least the supply rail for that card isn't.

Ken.

[HarryZ]

Harry for BSOD's in Win7 I'd be suspecting Memory, Temps and/or PSU.  Given it only started after installing the 660 perhaps the PSU isn't up to the task, or at least the supply rail for that card isn't.

Ken.

Thanks Ken...perhaps that may be the problem. But it's a mystery as to why the problem existed for the  9800 card, not the 570 which demanded more power and then the 660 which draws far less power than the 570.  And it only happens on the first cold boot, not subsequent boots.

I got the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL  line on the BSOD again so that's appeared 2 out of the 3 last BSOD crashes.

Harry

[iwik]

Hi Harry,
Have you googled the error. It seems like many things can give this error, seems most point
to drivers. However i go along with Kens suggestion of the p/s. Been in electronics too long
now to question why should it be this or that. Beg,borrow or steal a p/s to eliminate one
possibility. Remember on a cold start max current is taken from the p/s. If it aint good
the pc will object.
Les

[HarryZ]

Hi Harry,
Have you googled the error. It seems like many things can give this error, seems most point
to drivers. However i go along with Kens suggestion of the p/s. Been in electronics too long
now to question why should it be this or that. Beg,borrow or steal a p/s to eliminate one
possibility. Remember on a cold start max current is taken from the p/s. If it aint good
the pc will object.
Les

Hi Les,

Yes, I've googled the problem and the list of possibilities is endless! Interesting that not one suggestion came up for the power supply.

I cold booted this evening and of course, it booted without a problem!!!  Go figure!

Harry

[Sam Llorca]

POWER SUPPLY.

[blueskydriver]

Hi Harry,

So, have you replaced the PSU yet? Just thinking a bit, if it's not that, it has to be the video drivers because of that IRQ error. Windows still does IRQ assignments like it always has since DOS days, so my question is this, did uninstall the old drivers before installing any new drivers with the changing of the video cards? Why? Because some folks download a new driver for the new video card, be it Nvidia or ATI, and they just install it without properly removing any old drivers for the previous card. A driver from either place is not an update/remover, as far as I know, so it has to be installed as in a new clean state; meaning the driver will not uninstall the old previous driver for previous cards, the user must do that.

Therefore, if you have changed cards a few times and have not properly removed the old driver(s) first, your Windows OS is likely trying to assign one or more IRQs to your current video card, and sometimes it gets the right one and other times it does not; thus, causing the error. I have seen that error code many times in my past, but just took me a little longer to remember...aging process...lol.

Anyway, try this, uninstall all video card software by using its uninstall procedure (look in the all programs listing under the card(s) name) or use the uninstall programs/software found in the control panel. Once you've uninstalled any current or old video card driver(s), shutdown and do a cold boot. Your video card should be in a basic VGA mode. Now, install the driver for your current card.

Here are two links to explain this process further:

ATI here:

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/GPU57RemoveOldGraphicsDrivers.aspx

Nvidia here:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_13955.html

http://www.nvidia.com/object/driver_rollback.html

John

[HarryZ]

Hi John,

Haven't tried another PSU yet and since I'm leaving for the sun in Arizona for 2 weeks this Thursday, don't think I'll have time to do that.

When I got the new 660 card, I totally removed the drivers from Windows for the old 570 and then did a clean install for the new card. I suppose I could do that again but not sure it will solve anything.

I'll keep on plugging away.

Harry