Projectors or 4K Monitors?

[Flying_Fox]

Opinions may vary....

https://youtu.be/h9iNzqmg8kY

Sure they may 

What's those black bars doing in a "real" picture? Hmmm, why every window has a different color hue?
The key word is the video/picture "undistinguishable" from the real view.
Yes, you  could make some pictures with TV screens, but only limited with narrow field of view, leaving the screen frames outside.

[XOrionFE]

I am not going to argue with you Nick.   Your setup is truly gorgeous.   On mine hues are off only because I haven't tweaked them and much more prominent on video than in naked eye. In this video my back displays are also running at slightly lower settings than the front 3 because I only have i7 3960s with 660TI video cards running those while the front 3 run off an i7700 with a GTX 1080.   I would upgrade the back but video cards too expensive right now.

And, yes, the bezels are there but your brain loses sight of them really quick when flying....this has been discussed too many times to count.    Bottom line for me is that my 5 60" displays fully wrap the nose.  The only way you see top or bottoms is right up near the windows which yours will be not much different if using a 12ft radius or greater projector screen.  I prefer to SEE ALL the detail like tiny little lights, airport beacons at 20 miles, Vasis clear on approach, etc.    I don't like looking at a blurry washed out view that makes me feel like I need glasses that even today's best projectors still have and nobody is going to put lipstick on that pig for me as I have been there and done that.    TVs much easier to setup and maintain and don't go through bulbs.   Look better in daylight (no need to turn down the lights).   No warping/blending needed and not hit on frame rates due to the added layer.    Fits better in a smaller space and lower ceilings like typical basements (sorry we all cant have giant spaces with super tall ceilings needed for projection).  Some folks on this site will have no choice but to go with TVs.   You going to knock them?

Again, it has been said over and over and over.....each type has pluses and minus and the only determination of which is better will be in the eye of the beholder, as well as highly dependent on space, time, and budget of the individual.      Both in the end will provide endless hours of pleasure.

[Flying_Fox]

>I am not going to argue with you Nick.   Your setup is truly gorgeous.   

Thanks Scott.

I am not going to argue either.       You points are well taken and I completely agree with most of them.

My point was just on the some aspects of the visual side. There are things that using LCD screens just cannot do, if one wants to make video/pictures where the sim looks just like a real plane.

Here is what I am talking about:

[Flying_Fox]

Yes, projectors have less clarity but the feeling of "being there" is just enormous. Especially when now I can afford 160 cm screen height instead of 124 cm (4 feet) that I had before. Now I can actually look down the side windows and still see the scenery passing by.



Yes, many people say they stop seeing the bezels after a while. To me, even thinnest seams (around 0.5 mm) that I have between screen sheets are not good enough.  I still use my old screen for now, just added some white cloth around to use the increased screen area since I switched to full HD projectors.  Going to get a bigger screen later.

(You can recognize the white cloth areas on this shot on the left and down side).

[Flying_Fox]

Compared to the screenshots that I took the liberty to get from your video.  (Sorry for the screenshots blurriness, that really is not present there).





I understand that the monitors hue can be adjusted, however, besides the bezels,  hue/brightness of several LCD monitors will never look equal to the camera, because of the angles the camera sees flat screens from.

[Flying_Fox]

With my new HD projectors immersion starts right when I enter the sim room 





Sorry for multiple posts - could not do it in one because of the long Google Photo links.



Nick

[Captbrian]

Ok,  thanks all for sharing the Awesome Info.  When I started this post I had no idea what can of worms I was opening!   

So I do want to ask this and maybe I should just start another new post.   Has anyone used USB Portable monitors for things like your PFD or ND?   They run using Windows for the rendering and power from USB.   I just am wondering how well they would work for things like Displays.   ASUS MB168B is the one I am looking at.  Since they are not using the GPU I would think they could be a really cool way to go.  I did find some info on it.  https://www.mimomonitors.com/pages/why-choose-usb

Just wondering if anyone has tried them.


Thanks

Brian

[Bob Reed]

Ok,  thanks all for sharing the Awesome Info.  When I started this post I had no idea what can of worms I was opening!   

So I do want to ask this and maybe I should just start another new post.   Has anyone used USB Portable monitors for things like your PFD or ND?   They run using Windows for the rendering and power from USB.   I just am wondering how well they would work for things like Displays.   ASUS MB168B is the one I am looking at.  Since they are not using the GPU I would think they could be a really cool way to go.  I did find some info on it.  https://www.mimomonitors.com/pages/why-choose-usb

Just wondering if anyone has tried them.


Thanks

Brian

Trevor will have to jump in here as he is using them on his side views. They have a place. Just don't except them to run your main view.

[RayS]

I know of a few builders using USB monitors for their secondary systems like avionics.

I know one in particular who sometimes struggles with the displays occasionally popping up out of order. re: the PFD is now on the lower EICAS, ND is now where the PFD should be...

This is mostly anecdotal though, as it may be something else coming into play.

[XOrionFE]

With my new HD projectors immersion starts right when I enter the sim room 





Sorry for multiple posts - could not do it in one because of the long Google Photo links.



Nick

Very nice Nick.   As long as you don't mind daytime flying in the dark   Seriously though, I would be just as happy with that setup as mine.   It is very nice for sure and would love to fly in it someday.     

One question, why is there this weird blurry circle at the bottom as you look down?   Is that a P3D thing or a warping thing.  I can see a definite edge to it where it looks like it gets very blurry looking down.   I can also definitely see the blending areas....I guess your eyes probably forgive those much like mine forgive bezels.

I will also say, you have so much nicer blue sky in P3D than what X-Plane has.   X-Plane generally sucks on daytime eyecandy but night time.....different story..

[Bob Reed]

I know of a few builders using USB monitors for their secondary systems like avionics.

I know one in particular who sometimes struggles with the displays occasionally popping up out of order. re: the PFD is now on the lower EICAS, ND is now where the PFD should be...

This is mostly anecdotal though, as it may be something else coming into play.

This has to do with Windows not being able to see a monitor that is setup. Windows "re-stacks" the monitors when one goes missing.

[Captbrian]

That's what I was planing on using them for was just my displays.  Still using my GTX1080 for my Scenery.  But would love to hear how it's working for others. 

[Flying_Fox]

Very nice Nick.   As long as you don't mind daytime flying in the dark   Seriously though, I would be just as happy with that setup as mine.   It is very nice for sure and would love to fly in it someday.     

One question, why is there this weird blurry circle at the bottom as you look down?   Is that a P3D thing or a warping thing.  I can see a definite edge to it where it looks like it gets very blurry looking down.   I can also definitely see the blending areas....I guess your eyes probably forgive those much like mine forgive bezels.

Oh, I don't mind  daytime flying in the dark  - I have fill-in lamps behind me that provide enough ambient light inside.

That blurry circle - It's neither P3D, nor warping.  As I said above, it's just a temporary white cloth thrown in below the actual screen, until I set up a new bigger screen. Similar cloth is hanging left of the screen.

Yes, the blending areas are somewhat visible sometimes, depending on sky color - they almost disappear closer to evening fly time. Wish I had more control on them - I tried the adjustments. Interesting, that with old 1280x800 projectors blending with the same Immersive Calibration Pro was much better, without that brighter blue hue that shows up practically in all sim screenshots that I've seen on the Net.

Nick

[Flying_Fox]

  Has anyone used USB Portable monitors for things like your PFD or ND?   They run using Windows for the rendering and power from USB.   I just am wondering how well they would work for things like Displays.   ASUS MB168B is the one I am looking at.  Since they are not using the GPU I would think they could be a really cool way to go.  I did find some info on it.  https://www.mimomonitors.com/pages/why-choose-usb

Just wondering if anyone has tried them.


Thanks

Brian

Three out of my 6 MIP monitors work on USB to VGA - no problems with that.

[727737Nut]

Nick, Scott, both setup's look amazing.................but....

Nick, To answer your statement on the Hue being off from TV to TV, i have noticed that about Scott's video's but since I have been there in person I can tell you this.  In person there is no perceptible difference in colors and or gama.  It all matches quite well. 

Nick, since you have these latest high end PJ's, why not take my 100.00 challenge I put out there for projector users?


Night time with room lights on and cockpit lights on, i'll even lower the distance down to a 10 mile final.  I must be able to see the 4 VASI lights and distinguish number of reds and whites.  For TV's its 15 miles hehe   

(for those who don't know, I went away from PJ's because I got tired of gray night scenes and blend areas that looked like sunspots)

As for the screen shot above that Nick took,  hate to say it but my cheap 4K tv's just blow away the PJ's for clarity.  With my ortho scenery and 4K you can count rocks from 15000ft!   To each their own, just enjoy what you have 

Peace

[Flying_Fox]

I know of a few builders using USB monitors for their secondary systems like avionics.

I know one in particular who sometimes struggles with the displays occasionally popping up out of order. re: the PFD is now on the lower EICAS, ND is now where the PFD should be...

This is mostly anecdotal though, as it may be something else coming into play.

It's even worse when it happens with the main displays.

Recently I had some glitch and my 4th monitor (besides 3 projectors), which I use for all sim applications control, disappeared. So I could not set it back up as I did not see anything on it and could not grab any application by the title bar.
Ended up running Windows in safe mode, removing the NVidia drivers completely and reinstalling them. But then Windows and NVidia renumbered displays - seems they have their own ways for setting up displays. I rearranged them in the same order as before.
Next, I could run the sim reassigning Display IDs, and it was fine.
Then I decided to adjust warping, and could not run the necessary  Immersive Calibration Pro project properly - second and third views changed places.
The only way to fix this, besides redoing the warping completely,  was to reassign projectors in  Immersive Calibration Pro server in its first screen that appears when you open your existing project.

[Flying_Fox]

Nick, Scott, both setup's look amazing.................but....

Nick, To answer your statement on the Hue being off from TV to TV, i have noticed that about Scott's video's but since I have been there in person I can tell you this.  In person there is no perceptible difference in colors and or gama.  It all matches quite well. 

Nick, since you have these latest high end PJ's, why not take my 100.00 challenge I put out there for projector users?


Night time with room lights on and cockpit lights on, i'll even lower the distance down to a 10 mile final.  I must be able to see the 4 VASI lights and distinguish number of reds and whites.  For TV's its 15 miles hehe   

(for those who don't know, I went away from PJ's because I got tired of gray night scenes and blend areas that looked like sunspots)

As for the screen shot above that Nick took,  hate to say it but my cheap 4K tv's just blow away the PJ's for clarity.  With my ortho scenery and 4K you can count rocks from 15000ft!   To each their own, just enjoy what you have 

Peace

Hi Rob,

Yes, the monitors hue may be adjusted and look right for the eye in person, but the thing I am pointing to - is that  hue/brightness of several LCD monitors will never look equal to the camera, because of the different angles the cameras see flat screens from.
So, in video/pictures monitors hue/brightness will be always off, and will not look like in "real thing". Beside the bezels. 

Some of my sim videos were (mis )taken for the "real thing" many times.

As I said above, I got the call from real 737 captain who could not believe his eyes. 

For the $100 challenge I will see what  I can do  from 8 miles

I am not arguing about 4k clarity - but beware - it may make the view unrealistic.   
BTW, with new Optoma GT1080 Darbee the night is not grey anymore.


Nick

[Jason L]

Nick,
I know a picture won't do it justice, but can you post any night shots?  I'm considering starting with a single Optoma Darbee as you mentioned and am curious what the night flying looks like.

Thanks,

[Flying_Fox]

Nick,
I know a picture won't do it justice, but can you post any night shots?  I'm considering starting with a single Optoma Darbee as you mentioned and am curious what the night flying looks like.

Thanks,

Sure can.

Here is one of night test videos - nothing special - was trying to find aurora lights in winter night, but did not succeed yet.

https://youtu.be/26jGHPZnpQk


And here is one of the dusk pictures:

[Flying_Fox]

Nick,
I know a picture won't do it justice, but can you post any night shots...

Thanks,

Couple more night shots: