Post Your Pit!!!! 1000 Member Show and Tell

[Nlgravity]

Hi Nico,

Very nice setup! Simple question, what are the room dimensions; especially, what is the ceiling height requirement?

Thank you,

John

I dont have the exact room dimensions in the top of my head. But i can tell you this: i have only 1 inch of spare room on the sides with full roll and heave. And the cielings are 15 feet tall. The only reason i know this is because it took me a long time to find a place in nyc with cielings this tall that can accomodate the sim

[mickc]

The registration was the simple part, a few thousand for level C and another several thousand for level D (with is pending until imhave active control loading which i will have in 4 days).
Yes, i know it is the first in a global scale but i wanted to be modest.

I use p3d v4

Does the guy doing your Level D certfication work out of the back of a van? 

[bernard S]

you are not the first to have a level d sim.... enjoy the cerification process
😁😁

i am.just curious how you fitted 10 ft stroke on 10ft cab with 4ft support frame into 15 ft ceilings also how do you intend to qualify your visuals  i noticed yiu using cots software with wac system

[XOrionFE]

I cant help but notice how choppy your framerates look in some of the videos?   Don't you have to maintain a certain level of FPS to get certification?   With 4K tvs are you running multiple visual pcs?   With P3D v4 running 3x1080p screens with surround on one pc (Nvidea gtx1080 and 7700 cpu overclocked I get very good frames and no choppiness but I know if I went to 4K on each it would kill my frames.

Looks fantastic on your 4K screens but too choppy

Scott

[Nlgravity]

I had a real world 738 pilot and subscriber to my YT channel come over the other day and his first words were "holly shit your stream does not do justice to the visuals". And that is because im running 4k in 3 x 85 inch TVs. And im using go pro cameras to capture the images. Maybe you guys can help me out, but i still havent figured out how to make the image in the sim look as good in the stream as it does in person. i tried different settings and even bought 4 go pro 6 cams which im installing tomorrow.
Just so you know, i very rarely get fps below 60. And there are no studders. Im using 1 pc for p3d v4 with an i7 6950x 10 cores with HT off. Core 0 and 1 are clocked at 45, and the rest of the cores are all clocked at 43. I have 3x gtx titan pascal video cards in non-sli configutation.
As to all of the comments about the certification, do note that this is in my home, and is not a business and i dont ever plan to rent it out. Is just a very expensive toy. So if you think im lying and even bother to send me PMs claiming that im lying..... just know this: you will never be in a position where you paid me money, came to the sim and demanded a refund because you felt like the certification was false or fake. So who really cares? Enough with the sarcasm and the PMs about the FAA. All i wanted to do is share my toy with the community!

[blueskydriver]

I am glad you joined Cockpit Builders. Please keep sharing and posting anything you want...pics, videos, comments and etc. Please ignore the negative comments or PM's.

You have a very nice setup and I am grateful that you're sharing, it gives me something to aspire too.

Kind Regards,

John

Edit for spelling.

[blueskydriver]

Almost forgot, if you're streaming the video, it'll be network speed bottleneck slowing it down; especially, when on the same net as the sim. If recording with GoPro's what fps per second are they set at? Also, are the GoPro's running off the battery or are they plugged into 5 volt USB power while recording? Plugging them is better I think...

Keep at it though, it's all just a matter of tweaking.

John

[blueskydriver]

Are you using separate streaming software and a computer setup to do the streaming side? If so, which one...knowing this will help in finding the best settings for streaming your flights. Also, are you trying to stream 4k onto YouTube, if so what is your DSL/Cable speed and type, as well as bandwidth rates?

John

[Nlgravity]

Yes. Im using obs or xsplit sometimes running from a completely different networked machine that is not the best but is pretty legit. It is an alienware i7 cpu. I have 3 gopro 6 cams that are each hooked up to one of those hdmi to usb 3.0 capture cards (i forgot the name).

Im not trying to stream in 4k,but i might. The go pros are set up at 1080p and i have the google internet that is 1tb per se ong. So bandwidth is the least of my concers. But streaming to you tube in 1080p

[blueskydriver]

Nico,

Not knowing the full extent of your "broadcast" setup and your 1TB Google Internet connection, all I can do is offer some ideas of what the problem is. Here they are:

1. Even though you have 1TB Google internet, that only says the download speed most times, but for streaming the upload rate is what you look at.

2. On the Google 1TB, is the data rates locked in or is that the up to 1TB value. Again, not knowing how Google network is doing this for you, is this connection dedicated or shared. I read that it's usually setup in apartments and condos only in major cities where Google offers it, so if it's shared, much how cable networks work (it slows down when more users in the neighborhood connect). So, that is why I asked dedicated or shared. How about you do a network speed test with speedtest.net

3. What are the broadcast settings in OBS or XLS? These settings matter a lot for streaming, even at 1080. So, please post what these settings are.

4. Having an Alienware with I7 CPU is great, but says nothing about the motherboard speeds or it's bandwidth (or bus speeds). So, post more about the motherboard.

5. I am assuming with the Google 1TB they provide 1TB Network Interface Card (NIC) to go into the Alienware computer right? If yes, then go back to broadcast settings or the motherboard speeds. If no, what is the NIC you have then?

6. The HDMI to USB Capture Card(s), are they actual computer cards that are installed inside the Alienware Computer? If not, are they little boxes that you plug into the computers USB port(s) and are you using 3 of these boxes, with all 3 plugged into the computers USB ports? If I am understanding this right and you're using the little boxes, that means you're using only the USB ports that are a part of the same motherboard bus, in which case we're back to bandwidth of the motherboard.

7. However, I'd like too know why HDMI to USB? I am guessing again here, sounds like you're using a small cable that plugs into the GoPro 6 camera(s) micro hdmi port and allows you to have hdmi coming out from them, then you're using the little boxes to convert the hdmi to usb and you plug the usb into the usb port(s) of the Alienware computer's motherboard? If I am right, then that is your problem all together.
Basically, you are asking the motherboard to handle 3 cameras coming in through the 1 USB bus and depending on the camera settings, you are trying to push up to 640MegaBytes/sec (USB 3.0 rate). And, you're using three GoPro 6 cameras all at 1080 over the separate ports, but the same bus to come into OBS or XLS and each run at 1080, then push at least the main stream of 1080 out to upload to YouTube streaming.

8. If I guessed wrong in number 7, then please explain your entire setup; otherwise, if I am right, now think about that with OBS or XLS software? In other words, what you're likely trying to achieve will not work. You are relying on the consumer level hardware to do a professional level job. At the data rates or bandwidth (total) (not just internet connections) you are trying to push is way too much. What you really need is a high-end streaming broadcast system hardware inconjunction with OBS, more or less that means 3 each capture cards that actually all plug into the motherboard. Otherwise, you will always get jitters or better known as dropout or dropped frames. Although, you can change the settings in the OBS or the fps on the GoPro6 cameras to make it better, but that just compresses video rate even more and likely will not fix the dropout.

9. After reading all the above and you still have questions, please post them? Plus, I mean no disrespect to you in the way I ask things, I am just trying to help without knowing you or your skill sets. So, the more you post, the more I or others can try to help. Still, what you're trying to achieve would be high-end setups and you might need an actual tech person to come and check your setup.

Lastly, I am no broadcast tech, but I have done multicam setups at home, like you're trying to do and I've had the same issues or it was the upload speeds that held me back... Uh, lol...that sounds like I want you too hire me or something...no, I didn't mean it that way...lol, I just mean it as I have been there done that. 😀

One more thing, not all of the jitters or dropout are from your side, the people watching can have dropout due to their own hardware. Plus, there is a whole another aspect to this. The videos people are watching might be a recorded version of the live session. So, you did it live on such and such day and time, but you or YouTube recorded it for future playback. Thus, it could be those recorded versions that have dropout...

John

[Nlgravity]

Im the only residence in the entire building. All the PCs are hard wired with cat 6. But i do have speed tests done with my ipad on the witeless network.

[blueskydriver]

Nico, I was adding to my post when you just read it, please read it again 😀

[blueskydriver]

Nico,

If you answer these in your next post, it might be a while before I check back...I got doctor two appointments today 😀

John

Edit spelling

[Trevor Hale]

Im the only residence in the entire building. All the PCs are hard wired with cat 6. But i do have speed tests done with my ipad on the witeless network.

Wow we don't even get this kind of speeds at work. That network is awesome.

[blueskydriver]

Nico

Looking at that speed readout you posted has 400-500Mbps download and 200-300Mbps upload, but wouldn't those be much higher for a 1Tbps connection? By chance do you know the Optical Carrier (OC) connection number? Just trying to understand your setup better... Also, are you using a router behind the internet connection and if so, what is that routers speed? And, you must be using more then one device on this network right? Based on seeing 192.168.1.5 says to me you have the router at 192.168.1.1 and 4 other devices of 192.168.1.2, 192.168.1.3, 192.168.1.4 and 192.168.1.5.

Therefore, I am seeing all the more of reasons why your live streams might slow down. And, you say you use your ipad on this network, do you use your ipad while live streaming or any other items except the Alienware computer during live streaming? If so, those items are going to slow things down and cause dropout/jitters.

John

[blueskydriver]

Nico,

Just double checking here, is it possible you meant 1Gbps Google Fiber Connection and then you get a 1TB of storage on the their Cloud Storage or it's a 1TB storage hard drive they provided? I ask because Google only offers the highest of 1Gbps connections. Maybe, you made a typo?

I couldn't get that thought out of my head...a 1Tbps and so I researched it a little bit. After reading some info on google and wiki, the fastest in the world ever is 1.4Tbps. Another thing that I saw, on Google's purchase page, you should be getting 1Gbps Down and 1Gps if that's what you paid for.

Also, here is a help page from them that explains some reasons for slow downs:

https://support.google.com/fiber/answer/2476912?hl=en

Thus, I would ask do you have TV coming in on this same connection? If so, it will cause slow downs.

John

[Nlgravity]

My friend, i dont know what to say.... all the info you provided actually does make me want to hire you.

Yes, you are right about the MoBo issue since i am using 3 megawell usb capture cards that go into the MoBo.

Why am i not using pci capture cards? Well i actually have 3 of them installed in a pc with rampage extreme 10 anniversary edition MoBo but I ran into an issue that the gopros are not working in obs or xplit. So i went back to the older pc, an alienware. I probably should try inrallung the pci capture cards in the pci slot of alienware.

In terms of the upload speed, that is not an issue. Because i could have 100 devices connected to the same network, but only certain ethernet jacks have the dedicated 1tb/sec download and 750mb upload speed. All my sim pcs are the only ones that have that bandwidth. And is not distributed smong them. Since i have 4 decicated 1tb jacks.

My wifi is limited to 500 mb dl and 300 mb upload. And the speed test i sent to you is from my wifi.

So i will have to do the following:

1. Figure out why my super PC is having triuble detecting the image from the capture cards saying that us used by another app
2- connect the gopris to a sli dlot directly and avoid using the usb in the motherboard.

Thank you for all the time tou are devoting go help me!
Nic0

[Nlgravity]

Nico,

Just double checking here, is it possible you meant 1Gbps Google Fiber Connection and then you get a 1TB of storage on the their Cloud Storage or it's a 1TB storage hard drive they provided? I ask because Google only offers the highest of 1Gbps connections. Maybe, you made a typo?

I couldn't get that thought out of my head...a 1Tbps and so I researched it a little bit. After reading some info on google and wiki, the fastest in the world ever is 1.4Tbps. Another thing that I saw, on Google's purchase page, you should be getting 1Gbps Down and 1Gps if that's what you paid for.

Also, here is a help page from them that explains some reasons for slow downs:

https://support.google.com/fiber/answer/2476912?hl=en

Thus, I would ask do you have TV coming in on this same connection? If so, it will cause slow downs.

John

Huge, collosal, mother of all typos! 1g per second. Not TB. Maybe in 20 years when cars fly we will get that

[Nlgravity]

I will happily share my config file for obs when i get home

[blueskydriver]

Lol, I agree...when cars fly. Okay, now that I know it's 1Gbps, I am good. However, that speed test page is reflecting something different. I'd expect it too show closer to the 1Gbps...that takes me to the question of dedicated or shared? I understand you're in your own building, but looking at how fiber works, could it be shared with a building next door or something? Just seems odd...maybe do a few speed test, and select different locations on the map; different for each test.

Yes, post your OBS config please, that might help. Still, knowing the entire chain from cameras to internet would help; especially, with model numbers and settings...

John

[Nlgravity]

1 gb is ONLY for hard wired cat5/6 connections. Wifi is never going to be 1gb. If indo a speedtest from my dim pc, then it will be 1000 mb ul and 1000 mg ul.

When on wifi, i can never get that speed.

But let me ask something, the average streamer has an average internet connection of 20-100 mbps. So weather it is 1000 or 500 actually makes acdifference?

[Bob Reed]

1 gb is ONLY for hard wired cat5/6 connections. Wifi is never going to be 1gb. If indo a speedtest from my dim pc, then it will be 1000 mb ul and 1000 mg ul.

When on wifi, i can never get that speed.

But let me ask something, the average streamer has an average internet connection of 20-100 mbps. So weather it is 1000 or 500 actually makes acdifference?

Hey Nico, I think the issue is in the setup of the software you are using to broadcast with. I used to stream on Twitch with a very limited connection. I had to turn stuff down but I still had a pretty good looking video for the connection speed I had. Knowing a little bit about video, I think the issue resides in amount of data you may be trying to push down the pipe. There is no way you are going to be able to broadcast a 4k video. You need to have the broadcast software handle crunching down the video for you.

[blueskydriver]

Nico,

I do agree with Bob and that is why you should post your OBS settings, as they will show what compression is being used and other info. In a basic sense, whenever you do video you only have two ways to really use it and that is RAW or Compressed. RAW is whatever the resolution the camera (or video device) puts out in it's raw format, say 4k for example. However, the files sizes will be enormous at 4k and it takes a high powered computer with high powered video cards to use video in it's RAW state. Therefore, that is where Compression/Decompression (codec) comes in. There are software compressors and hardware compressors in use for just about everything related to transmitting video. With software compressors, which there are many, you can choose the best one for whatever situation you plan to use the video, in your case multi-camera streaming. As for hardware compression, that is an actual physical device that might do a compression factor in order to store the video or use it. Here is good link to read (might be outdated in regards to current software and hardware codecs):

https://www.dacast.com/blog/software-vs-hardware-encoders-for-live-video-streams/

So, in your case you are using the OBS software codec with your Alienware computer...which could be the reason for the slowdown or it can be a different factor. That is what I meant about knowing the entire chain from camera to the internet and you likely know this already. However, one of these items in your chain is causing the problem for the jitters/drops. That is why I also mentioned using a hardware codec device earlier, because a hardware codec device removes some of the potential problems that exist with software codecs.

Anyway, moving onto your questions. You are talking a few different things all at once. First, the speedtest you did/do is not measuring speed from your computer or wifi device, it is usually only measuring your internet connection device (usually some sort of box) speed and in your case the 1Gbps from Google. You can use any computer on your network (hardwired or wifi), which is behind the internet connection device to start the test and see the speeds shown from that test, usually the same or close to it each time you ran a test. BUT, with a speedtest it can vary based on where you connect to (on the speedtest map) for the test. In other words, when using the speedtest.net let's say I select a place in my home state for the test; well, that should be pretty fast (normally) so that means I am getting closer to the speeds that I pay my internet company (or ISP) for. However, if I connect to a place on the other side of the world, it's likely going to show a much slower speed (ignoring time of day when the test is done, which means if I do it at nighttime vs daytime, nighttime less people connected or called less traffic). Also, this is the reason why ISP's say up to this or that speed because they know speeds can vary based on those factors and many others.
Now, when you mention Cat5/5e or Cat6/6A that is nothing more then a cable type and the throughput speed. Meaning how the cable is made and its designed speed rate, here read this:

***Cat 5e has been around for over 15 years. At the time it came out, it gave the first glimpse of the 1 Gigabit networks as a possibility, although it was not typical to find hardware reasonably priced that would support those speeds. In the past few years, hardware costs have come down and allowed Gigabit networking to become easier to afford. From our perspective, the absolute minimum network should be a Gigabit network. Cat 5e cables are typically 24 gauge twisted pair wires, which can produce a Gigibit network at distances up to 328 ft., including patch cables at both ends.

Cat 6 cables came out only a few years after Cat 5e. This cable gave the ability to have a 10 Gigabit network. For much of the 2000's, Cat 5e was run to the workstations and Cat 6 was run as a backbone from router to switches. However, the 10 Gigabit network on Cat 6 cables is limited to 164 ft., including patch cables. After that distance, its ultimate speed is the same as cat 5e, i.e. 1 Gigabit.

Beyond the speed/distance factor, Cat 6 has a tighter twist in the cables, which allows for two-way communication on each pair of wires, where Cat 5e does not allow this feature. We have noticed that in certifying our cable installations, Cat 5e cable has a tendency to have a higher delay and skew than Cat 6 cable. That means that even though both Cat5e and Cat 6 can do 1 Gigabit networks, Cat 5e may have a longer delay for the signal to get from one side to the other, which will give the appearance that it runs slower.***

Did that help you understand the Cat5 or Cat6 question?

If so, I will move onto the average streamer question. I take it you mean this; "My average streaming video session is averaging 20-100Mbps, so if I have an 1Gbps internet connection or even a 500Mbps connection, shouldn't my streaming session be just fine, with no jitters, dropouts or stuttering?" The answer, if all things being equal, is yes, but that's the whole problem, all things are not equal. Most people do not see it that way, yet that is how it works; instead, you must look at the entire chain or big picture...the camera to internet, live vs recorded, ISP connection speeds, software codec vs hardware codec, network interface cards, CAT5 or CAT6 cables, routers, streaming software in use, and even the time of day, as well as how many people are viewing it all at once on the other end. More or less, it's all variables that you may have control over or you may not.

Therefore, set everything up to best as possible and go with that... Even big companies deal with these very issues. What was that big boxing match (McGregor vs ?) that went on recently and they had to delay the start time due to streaming issues, like too many connections at once or ISP's not connected properly. I know this doesn't help fix things for you, but I am just saying do expect problems with streaming video...

Last question, is your NIC card in your Alienware an 1Gbps card and is your router 1Gbps capable? If not, they should be...

John

[Nlgravity]

John, you know your stuff. And are more than willing to help. Please know that i never take this for granted and i do appreciate it.

I have some honework to donto get you all these info, but my sim is currently dismantled as im installing the active control loading in the flight controld.

Also, i have each gopro set up as 1080p @ 60 fps and my output resolution is set to 1080p as well.

I will come back soon with the data.

Thanks again!
Nico

[blueskydriver]

Thank you Nico, but admittingly, it's this website that I/we owe. If you want too say thank you in a big way, give a donation to the website/Trevor Hale by using the button/link over on the left bottom side of the page, see my pic. It will help Trevor with server costs and keeping the site going. And, I know he will never ask this, he's to modest and humble, so I will ask for him. Just to let you know, I am only a member and receive no money or anything else in that regard from him or Bob Reed...

Regarding your current situations, no hurry at all, you just let me know things as you get too them... I do have one recommendation for now, drop the GoPro Cameras to 1080 30fps or even 24fps (24fps is useable, but you need to try it first). Otherwise, using 60fps is to high for streaming...

John