For any of the NTHUSIM users, has anyone experienced screen jitter/jumping when the single line messages appear and close? For example, when opening or closing the main cockpit door, the projected screen images will jitter/jump around...This happens in full screen mode. In window mode the single line messages will look irregular and somewhat distorted for the brief moment.
Turning off NTHUSIM and just looking at the projected images without it, there is no jitter/jumping upon single line messages appearing. Had the most updated NTHUSIM and even reverted back to previous version, but still the problem remains.
If you have seen this and resolved it, please post. Or, if someone really knows how to remove single line messages in FSX, post that. As of right now, there is no true way to do it. FSUIPC doesn't remove them, nor does Text_Scroll=0 (FSX.cfg).
Finally, NTHUSIM forums has nothing on this issue...
BSD
I have not seen or had that problem with my setup but cannot tell you why. Must be something isolated to your setup. Maybe your graphics card settings or something.
Scott
Hi BSD, haven't noticed this issue myself during testing, however I don't use the line messages for general flight. As Scott suggests it could be your video card or drivers, try updating. Also have you tried updating Nthusim? They have a new release out.
Ken.
Scott and Ken,
Yes, tried updating NTHUSIM, but no difference. The odd thing is, it just started two days ago. Nothing has been changed in drivers or video card status. Unless a windows update changed something...
Plan is too check all video settings tonight to make sure everything matches with NTHUSIM, Matrox TH2GO, and FSX, as well as the projectors.
Thanks so much for your help.
OKay, went through some things and realized the issue that Maurice found out, and after going back to follow his guide, the matter of not using the right .FLT file was one problem.
The next problem (after getting the right .FLT file loaded) is that three things happen:
1. After starting NTHUSIM first and then starting FSX, the view shown is the correct images without borders in window mode, but the text_line has a weird image slightly above it. However, the screen does not jump or flick (meaning it looks like the entire projected image is squeezing or its trying to resize itself).
2. If Alt-Enter is used, the image will go to full screen, and that is where the flicking starts when using the text_line.
3. If Alt-Enter is used again, the window mode comes back but the border is now turned on, and the FSX images all look low in anti-aliasing (like it's turned off). Plus, the jumping still occurs on using text_line (remember text_line appears when the door is opened or closed). If you go back to full screen mode, the anti-aliasing looks fine, but still have the jumping.
Tried installing the lastest NTHUSIM and even reinstalling it from the beginning, no change. Changed all settings in FSX, Matrox TH2GO, and video card...no change. The only way this problem stops is when NTHUSIM is turned off, but of course no corrected images.
This is one of those "pull out remaining hair from head and bang forehead on Glareshield"!
What do you guys get after changing modes with Alt-Enter? Just to answer the question, why would this be needed? Well, if you need to leave FSX and goto to the desktop to start an add-on like Aivlasoft EFB or something else.
Thank you.
Are you running FSX? Is it in DX10 or DX9 (I dont run DX10). The problems you are describing sound like problems I used to have with TH2GO when it didnt like the video mode I was running in. What resolution are you using on the projectors? What is your full screen resolution within FSX set to? Have you tweaked your NVidia video settings according to Nick Needham tweaks? The other think is that it was pointed out by another member that you need to use the short cable that came with your TH2GO to connect it to the computer. Just making sure you are doing that and haven't put an extension in its place.
Scott
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 23, 2011, 01:42:50 AM
What do you guys get after changing modes with Alt-Enter? Just to answer the question, why would this be needed? Well, if you need to leave FSX and goto to the desktop to start an add-on like Aivlasoft EFB or something else.
Thank you.
I have a bit of trouble understanding your procedure. You say you start Nthusim and then FSX and FSX starts in Window mode. What I do is start FSX by clicking on a saved .FLT file that I saved in full screen mode. So when I click on the .FLT file, FSX will also start in full screen mode.
Then if you need to load something, try doing it without hitting Alt-Enter & going to window mode first. Instead, try clicking on the Window key in your keyboard. FSX should minimize, then load whatever it is you want to load and then click on the minimized FSX icon on the Task bar. Most if not all of the time (in my experience), FSX will not come back until you hit the Enter key as well after clicking on the minimized icon.
So you can go back & forth from minimized to full screen without ever going to window mode. Now, I have no idea if that will cure your flickering problems but that's one thing to try anyway.
Maurice
Wait a second, don't you start the NTHUSIM program and it's running in the background or minimized, and then start the FSX program?
To clarify, we start the NTHSUIM, then FSX, which goes to the window to choose aircraft, time of day, location, etc; however, we just use load button, and load the saved FLT file. Then wait till FSX FLT file location loads up.
Once it loads, the projected image is the saved locationin window mode, without borders (like window mode without the big blue border around the entire FSX window). If we do Alt-Enter, it goes to full screen mode, if we do Alt-Enter again, it goes back to window mode, but the blue border is around the window, unlike when we first started.
The thing is we never get back to the borderless window mode using Alt-Enter or any other way except reloading the saved Flt file.
So, when we first start the text_line does not causing jumping, but it has some weird artifacts above it, across the entire green line. In full screen, the jumping occurs with the text_line, as well as it does when we go back to the now, blue border window mode. And, it is this window mode the antialising is not working right.
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 23, 2011, 06:20:40 PM
Wait a second, don't you start the NTHUSIM program and it's running in the background or minimized, and then start the FSX program?
To clarify, we start the NTHSUIM, then FSX, which goes to the window to choose aircraft, time of day, location, etc; however, we just use load button, and load the saved FLT file. Then wait till FSX FLT file location loads up.
No, that's not the way I do it. Your way should work too but since I always use the same aircraft I do not need to start FSX the way you do it. I just double click directly on a saved flight (.flt file) that I had previously saved while in full screen mode and the flight opens in full screen mode with no other questions to answer. I can change things like weather etc while in full screen mode. In other words, I never go to window mode anymore.
As I said, no idea if this would help you but just try it and see.
Maurice
I do similiar to Maurice only i have made the correct .flt file just be the default flight so I open FSX normally but it automatically goes to the default flight. That said, I can Alt-Ent between windowed and full screen mode as much as I want without any problems. If I go to windowed mode and then minimize fsx so I can do something on the desktop I usually have to just Alt-Ent again to go back in and into full screen mode. Again, no issues. The only time I ever had any issues with wierd text lines or any other graphics anomolies was when I had something messed up in the video card such as resolutioni, graphics card settings, or wrong frequency for monitor/projector.
Scott
Quote from: XOrionFE on March 24, 2011, 02:26:12 AM
I do similiar to Maurice only i have made the correct .flt file just be the default flight so I open FSX normally but it automatically goes to the default flight. Scott
I almost always start in a different place, so I don't want to start any default flight and then have to load another one. So I have a shortcut to the folder where all the flights (FLT files) are saved and I then click on whatever flight I want & I'm off with one click. That's the lazy man's way :)
But if I need to switch to window mode (almost never need to), I can also switch back & forth with Alt-Enter with no problems at all
Maurice
Okay, understand what you're doing as far as the .FLT and that is certainly the easy way or lazy way...
Scott you raised a point and it sound like this could have something to do with it. You have the Mitsubshi EW230Ust as we do, so what settings are you using exactly?
Windows 7 setting is:3840x800
Matrox setting is: 3840x800
Projector set for:1280x800 at 16x9
However, thinking the Windows 7 setting is supposed to be: 1280x800 and it will show only one display in the control panel-display window.
What is your setting in FSX?
Please post yours.
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 24, 2011, 11:38:43 AM
so what settings are you using exactly?
Windows 7 setting is:3840x800
Matrox setting is: 3840x800
Projector set for:1280x800 at 16x9
However, thinking the Windows 7 setting is supposed to be: 1280x800 and it will show only one display in the control panel-display window.
What is your setting in FSX?
Please post yours.
My settings are the same as yours.
Maurice
Mine are the same. In FSX I also have it matched to the Matrox
So, for the Windows OS-control panel-display you have 3840x800 or the 1280x800 (just to verify since mentioning that change).
Disregard last question, it has to be 3840x800. However, if the projectors have 16x9 and the Matrox says 3840x800 is 16x10, how does factor in to the selection you use for the projectors Scott? Are you using Auto, Full, Real, or 16x9.
Also, which version of GXM for Matrox is correct for Windows7? I am at 2.1.0.5, so what is anyone else using?
Edit: Okay, uninstalled NTHUSIM again and reinstalled version 2.4.1.5 and still get this. For sure, it has to be this because when the Text_Line appears the non-optimized view is what flicks up, and then back to the optimized or corrected view... Sending email to NTHUSIM folks.
The one thing noticed is when NTHUSIM is uninstalled and reinstalled, the config file is not getting deleted. After the reinstall, went to the tools and config buttons to check things, and everything was the same as before (all the control points were the same). So, not sure why this is, but it should have been deleted in the uninstall (start-program files-NTHSUIM-unistall.exe). Therefore, the config file must be corrupted and is not getting deleted properly.
Well, redid the config file in NTHUSIM and that didnt change anything. Either the FSX files are screwed up or it's total user stupidity!
No matter what the program is not working right, so I need a couple of more answers from you guys.
1. After you start NTHUSIM, FSX and Arrive at the premade Flt file location, is your screens in Full Screen mode at that point or not. If yes, what exactly happens when you hit Shift-E? Do you see the green bar and the red text with either Main Door Opening/Closing, and Exit is Open and Exit is Closed?
2. If you see the green bar normally, then what happens if you goto window mode and do the same? I know NTHUSIM is meant for Full Screen Mode, but I need to know what happens while you're there, does the picture look like antialias is missing, and when you go back to Full Screen does everything look like is was before going to Window Mode?
3. Here is NTHUSIM question. What happens when you you first start NTHUSIM? Is it minimized? So, you goto the task bar to bring it back up maximized, and then in the NTHUSIM control window (prior to starting FSX), you click the config button. Then, you would see your grid, and you normally would press S to save it...what happens after saving it? Are you still in the grid or back to the NTHUSIM control window?
If you're still in the grid, what key(s) do you use to go back to the control window? Is it ESC key or something else?
4. Scott for the projectors, are you seeing Projectors Blue Screens that tell you which mode you're in when switching between the desktop and FSX starting, then if you come back to the desktop you see the same blue screens again telling you want mode you're going into? That is what we see here...everytime, it's like flipping back and forth through it.
Finally, feeling Maurice's one time pain of just wanting to quit this all together, after three nights of 8-10 hours each, and still no resolve! Especially, over one little thing like this...
I will have to fire it up tommorrow or Sunday to go through these and see what I have. I should have answers before the end of the weekend.
Scott
And removing the textline is not an option? (...as real as it gets cough cough..)
There is a mod for the .cfg:
HideInfoText=1
But maybe not what youre looking for...
HideInfoText would be awesome because I don't need the green line/info anyway, but does it work? When you say .cfg, which one? FSX.cfg, Aircraft.cfg, Panel.cfg, and Go on vacation.cfg (that last one is for us...lol).
Seriously, if that works, it'll be great!
Now that I think of it I think I did that Hide on mine. It was in the Nick Needham tweaks for Windows7 and FSX.
The insanity continues... Okay, tried the HideInfoText and remebered that this is to hide the info for Pause, Brakes (when applied) or other text infos that normally appear at the bottom of the screen.
The Main Exit door (green bar at the top with red text) is actually a window. If you right mouse click on it when you see it and select undock; it will turn into an undocked window. At this point, it will be spanning across all three screens (meaning projectors). So, resizing it to a small bar, and then placing it on the lower left. In full screen it will be the same small bar without it's window border.
In any case, it makes no difference what we have done to get rid of this problem, it still exist. With NTHUSIM running, the flickering (on-off-on-off-on) still happens when hitting Shift-e. With NTHUSIM off the screens are distorted, but that green bar does not cause any problems.
Finally, even after the uninstall and reinstalls of NTHUSIM, there has to be something not deleted, and now it is corrupted. To verify this, once someone else with NTHUSIM does the Shift-e to see what happens; as well as, going from full screen to window, and then back to full screen. If no one else has these problems, then that should narrow it down...
Can someone verify what happens after you bring up the config in NTHUSIM (the grid) and press S to save. Does it or is it supposed to minimize at this point?
Because this is confusing; if the grid does not go back to the NTHUSIM program window and minimize, you would not start FSX from the grid lines screen.
In our case the s key does not show an effect after pressing it nor does the NTHUSIM program reappear or a minimize occurs. It just stays at the grid lines...
Yes, we keep replying to ourselves here...
Here is the SitRep: Did all the necessary things to fix this; updated GTX295 card, checked Direct X for DX11 (already done), updated Matrox GXM software, and tripled checked everything. Even redid the .FLT file and really looked hard at Maurice's tutorial, Ken's tutorial and Ivar's tutorial. Here is what we found out:
1. As Ivar shows in his tutorial that the 4 windows in the FLT file are window 1 for the background, bottom layer #3, in which he set to a top-down view; Window 2 for left view, layer 0; Window 3 for center view, layer 1; and Window 4 for right view, layer 2.
2. With NTHUSIM running version 2.4 (same with all versions, we did this for every version listed...really!) and FSX running, the text_line (main door opening, closing, opened, closed, any multiplayer connect or disconnects, and other messages that use the text_scroll or text_line method are all a part of a pop-up window that is directly tied to the Window 1, Layer 3 (mainly layer 3), the background images.
3. When a message is to appear, it will become layer 0 for the amount of time it needs to show the message and then disappear. In other words, it will pop-up over that layer 0 of window 2, left view.
4. For some reason, NTHUSIM is seeing this as a window mode pop-up, in which case it tries to switch the mode from on-off. If this doesn't sound like it makes sense; well it doesn't, but since NTHUSIM is designed to work in Full Screen mode and not Window Mode, that "might" be the problem.
5. The way too work around this and similar to what Ivar says about using AivlaSoft's EFB, it must be tied to the background layer, 3 (or bottom layer). So, when you first request it too appear by using Shift-E, use the right mouse click button (you have to be fast here with the right click) and click the green bar with red text. Now, in the list select undock.
6. The green bar is now in window mode, but stretched across all screens. Re-size the window in the normal manner and place it on the lower left (or where ever). NOTE: Here is the dead give away that this has something to with NTHUSIM when you re-size this green bar window, you must use the white mouse pointer. Normally you use the red mouse pointer with FSX because it is a correction mouse pointer from NTHUSIM, but the red will not change this window...
7. Here is the next important part; go to the fsx menu line above (ALT key) then select Views and down at the bottom you should see Cockpit 00, Cockpit 01, Cockpit 02, and Cockpit 03. These directly correspond to the windows 1-4, but not the layer numbers. So, select Cockpit 00, which is the bottom layer of the opened views. This will tie the green bar window back to that bottom layer 3 (or the background layer). This is what Ivar was talking about when it came to FSX and EFB. This is the way to make sure the bottom layer is active; it's the same way you did it in the FLT file, but you typed Active=True for the bottom layer, window 1.
Finally, if you for some reason click on one of the front layers in FSX while doing other things, you use the same method of just going to views, Cockpit 00 to go back to having the background as active. Should it matter about which layer is active? Well, according to others, the frame rates change depending on which layer is active, thus this will put you on the background layer.
Here is a question too ponder, what about making a custom camera definition GUI that is the full size like the background needs to be, but just make it a black image/color instead of using cockpit view or top-down? Wouldn't that reduce resources being used and increase the frame hit since no real graphics are being rendered, so to speak, because it would be black (not 0000 black, but 1 or 2 color values from complete black)?
Scott, I just noticed you signed in (5:30am CST). Really appreciate if you can check things out on your system. If you try some of these things, please post to what happens...
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 25, 2011, 07:58:17 PM
Can someone verify what happens after you bring up the config in NTHUSIM (the grid) and press S to save. Does it or is it supposed to minimize at this point?
No, it stays the same. A green message pops up & says Configuration saved
Because this is confusing; if the grid does not go back to the NTHUSIM program window and minimize, you would not start FSX from the grid lines screen.
Why is this confusing? All you need to do is save the configuration, hit escape to get out of the grid and start FSX. You don't even need to minimize Nthusim but you can if you want to (no difference).Once the configuration is saved you don't need to do that again unless you want to align the grid again
In our case the s key does not show an effect after pressing it nor does the NTHUSIM program reappear or a minimize occurs. It just stays at the grid lines...
As it should
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 26, 2011, 01:37:59 AM
Here is a question too ponder, what about making a custom camera definition GUI that is the full size like the background needs to be, but just make it a black image/color instead of using cockpit view or top-down? Wouldn't that reduce resources being used and increase the frame hit since no real graphics are being rendered, so to speak, because it would be black (not 0000 black, but 1 or 2 color values from complete black)?
Total waste of time to try that. The maximized window in the background barely use any system resources if you point it to the sky with a 512 magnification. That is now a blue image & no different than having a black image.
If you don't believe that, try this. Kill the center undocked window and let the background maximized window take its place. On the center (background) window, select a cockpit view at the same magnification than the 2 side views. Effectively then, you have 3 views instead of 4. Sounds great except that I tried it and it made no difference at all in the frame rate, so the 4th hidden window is totally irrelevant as far as FPS are concerned. I really expected a sizable FPS increase, but it did not happen for me.
A side benefit though (if you can call it a benefit) is that the center window is now the normal front FSX view and if you hit the S key, you get to see outside views projected on the front projector. When you go back to cockpit view in the front, everything is back to normal.
Now, in your case, since you are pre-occupied about opening & closing doors, maybe that would solve your problem since whatever shows up should show up in the center window I would think since that is/should be the main active window. Maybe that will work for any other messages that pop up as well.
Maurice
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 24, 2011, 04:43:58 PM
Edit: Okay, uninstalled NTHUSIM again and reinstalled version 2.4.1.5 and still get this. For sure, it has to be this because when the Text_Line appears the non-optimized view is what flicks up, and then back to the optimized or corrected view... Sending email to NTHUSIM folks.
Don't bother doing that. I get the same momentary flickering if I hit Shift-E and I also tried it with the Warpalizer which is the Warping software Ivar is currently using. So this is a generic problem caused by any warping software. So I don't think there is a solution to this particular problem.
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on March 26, 2011, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 25, 2011, 07:58:17 PM
Can someone verify what happens after you bring up the config in NTHUSIM (the grid) and press S to save. Does it or is it supposed to minimize at this point?
No, it stays the same. A green message pops up & says Configuration saved
Because this is confusing; if the grid does not go back to the NTHUSIM program window and minimize, you would not start FSX from the grid lines screen.
Maurice,
Thank you for taking the time to look into this. Our replies are in between your responses...in green.
Why is this confusing? All you need to do is save the configuration, hit escape to get out of the grid and start FSX. You don't even need to minimize Nthusim but you can if you want to (no difference).
-It's supposed to show conguration saved after pressing "s" key. Where on the screen (location) are you seeing this, because we're not seeing it? That's what's causing he confusion, there is no indication of anything once the grid is done....
Once the configuration is saved you don't need to do that again unless you want to align the grid again
According to NTHUSIM instructions, after saving, close the program window, and then the next time you open the program it will be minimized and working. In our case, this does not happen as stated...causing more confusion
In our case the s key does not show an effect after pressing it nor does the NTHUSIM program reappear or a minimize occurs. It just stays at the grid lines...
As it should
It would be nice that after pressing another key to indicate your done with the grid, that you're then taken back to the program window, if it's supposed to be escape key, that's fine, but there is nothing for instructions on this. So, this is what causes more confusion. Plus, this would help signal where you are in relation to the grid and program.
By the way BlueSkyDriver, do you have a real name. Just nicer to communicate with a 'real' person :)
You are spending way too much time worrying whether Nthusim is working or not, If Nthusim is correcting the image, it is working, period.
When I hit S, a message pops up & quickly disappears and the grid remains on as it should since you may not be finished adjusting the grid yet. When you are totally done and you want to make sure the changes are saved if you not see the message (if you made any changes), just close Nthusim and you will be prompted to save the changes and in that case, you will have the opportunity to give it a name (that is in the manual I believe).
When you want to fly, start Nthusim and forget about it. As I said, it will work whether minimized or not.
Sorry but I don't know how I can make this any clearer.
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on March 26, 2011, 11:53:04 AM
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 26, 2011, 01:37:59 AM
Here is a question too ponder, what about making a custom camera definition GUI that is the full size like the background needs to be, but just make it a black image/color instead of using cockpit view or top-down? Wouldn't that reduce resources being used and increase the frame hit since no real graphics are being rendered, so to speak, because it would be black (not 0000 black, but 1 or 2 color values from complete black)?
Total waste of time to try that. The maximized window in the background barely use any system resources if you point it to the sky with a 512 magnification. That is now a blue image & no different than having a black image.
If you don't believe that, try this. Kill the center undocked window and let the background maximized window take its place. On the center (background) window, select a cockpit view at the same magnification than the 2 side views. Effectively then, you have 3 views instead of 4. Sounds great except that I tried it and it made no difference at all in the frame rate, so the 4th hidden window is totally irrelevant as far as FPS are concerned. I really expected a sizable FPS increase, but it did not happen for me.
A side benefit though (if you can call it a benefit) is that the center window is now the normal front FSX view and if you hit the S key, you get to see outside views projected on the front projector. When you go back to cockpit view in the front, everything is back to normal.
This all makes sense, so the background window is really not needed, but since FSX is attached to the background for other reasons, it's only logical to keep it.
Now, in your case, since you are pre-occupied about opening & closing doors, maybe that would solve your problem since whatever shows up should show up in the center window I would think since that is/should be the main active window. Maybe that will work for any other messages that pop up as well.
This whole doors thing is actually the end result of trying to use other programs with the warping software. Things like the EFB, FSPassengers (even for the sound effects), FS2Crew, or the constant pop messages of people joining the multiplayer sessions, so everytime someone joins the screen it's doing this flick thing alot...it's unbearable and useless then.
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on March 26, 2011, 12:16:18 PM
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 24, 2011, 04:43:58 PM
Edit: Okay, uninstalled NTHUSIM again and reinstalled version 2.4.1.5 and still get this. For sure, it has to be this because when the Text_Line appears the non-optimized view is what flicks up, and then back to the optimized or corrected view... Sending email to NTHUSIM folks.
Don't bother doing that. I get the same momentary flickering if I hit Shift-E and I also tried it with the Warpalizer which is the Warping software Ivar is currently using. So this is a generic problem caused by any warping software. So I don't think there is a solution to this particular problem.
This is the main reason about verifying things...you're getting the flick in NTHUSIM and say that it's the same in Warpalizer. Trying to determine if this is isolated to just our setup or other people like you or Scott. Troubleshooting this is much easier when more variables are known. Thank you for looking into it...
At least we won't spend more time trying to fix it now knowing it's an issue....uh..cough, cough...feature.
Thanks again.
BSD
Quote from: maurice on March 26, 2011, 01:14:54 PM
By the way BlueSkyDriver, do you have a real name. Just nicer to communicate with a 'real' person :)
Check you're PM's
You are spending way too much time worrying whether Nthusim is working or not, If Nthusim is correcting the image, it is working, period.
You're right way too much time wasted, but if it's supposed to flick, it should be stated by NTHUSIM; otherwise, it appears as a problem or error to the first time user. By not seeing another setup, nor this being known, it just looks wrong when it happens
When I hit S, a message pops up & quickly disappears and the grid remains on as it should since you may not be finished adjusting the grid yet. When you are totally done and you want to make sure the changes are saved if you not see the message (if you made any changes), just close Nthusim and you will be prompted to save the changes and in that case, you will have the opportunity to give it a name (that is in the manual I believe).
Yes, this does happen when you close the program, but it's just the being left in the grid and asking "what do I do now?" There is no mention of escape key or any other key, so if escape key is used, could that be what is causing the flicking; that is the question we were asking ourselves, but you solved this for us (troubleshooting step):-)
When you want to fly, start Nthusim and forget about it. As I said, it will work whether minimized or not.
Sorry but I don't know how I can make this any clearer.
Maurice
You made things much more clear for sure. The thing to take from this is, if we have any other programs that we like to start or run, it seems best to do it from an another attached monitor/display connected to the FSX computer. Thus, NTHUSIM/Warpalizer doesn't get fooled with once it's started.
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 26, 2011, 01:37:30 PM
You made things much more clear for sure. The thing to take from this is, if we have any other programs that we like to start or run, it seems best to do it from an another attached monitor/display connected to the FSX computer. Thus, NTHUSIM/Warpalizer doesn't get fooled with once it's started.
Yes, that is one way although it's a bit tricky to setup the TripleHead with a separate monitor attached as well (at least it was for me). I had it that way for a while as well but I eventually removed the extra monitor.
But I'm still not sure why you are having problems going to windowed mode and back (assuming I understood you right). That definitely should work (if you have the licensed Nthusim version and not the demo version) & if you can go to window mode, then you can start other programs and then go back to full screen mode in FSX.
Or even simpler, hit the Window key as I mentioned and this will minimize FSX. When you are done loading whatever it is you need to load, click on the minimized icon (and hit the Enter key if FSX does not come back right away) and you will be back in full screen mode with the other programs running in the background.
That will not solve any problem with the flickering if a message pops up but at least you can load the programs.
Anyway, hope this helps,
Maurice
Hey NTHUSIM users,
Sent Andy at NTHUSIM an email over the weekend and he is onboard with this problem dealing with the flickering; he has read the posts within this thread.
Although, this might seem to be a small matter about the door opening/closing, but likely you've read thus far, and understand it's more than just that. It involves what happens when this grean bar window (call it GBW) appears, and if it's a dockable window or something from Windows and FSX working (or not working) together. If it's that, then IMO this would make sense, NTHUSIM is for FSX, not Windows, so the flicks would happen for those brief moments of this GBW appearing. Also, this happens with other aspects of the GBW; it does it with multiplayer and other pop-ups.
Maurice is seeing it, so Scott do you see this? Other NTHUSIM users please check this on your setups; therefore, Andy and crew can help fix this. The more we can show them, the easier and quicker it will be fixed.
Finally, we know Maurice you don't mind using the Windows key to go back and forth, since you like quick start icons so to speak. But, IMO, using Alt-Enter is so much easier; especially, for doing other things like dealing with FSUIPC, Add-ons or anything else dealing with the (Alt) menu bar in FSX. Even more so, if you had to go into FSUIPC make adjustments, then come back, but now NTHUSIM isn't working right. So, would you have to restart NTHUSIM everytime you make adjustments, because NTHUSIM is not coming back in right?
Honestly, we here at BSD really wish it to be an user error on our end, because it'll be easier to fix once discovered, and if it is our error than we really apologize now. However, at this point we don't know yet, but we're leaning more on it being something to do with NTHUSIM (and/or updates) and that of FSX. Maybe, something easily overlooked...?
One last thing, we're going to capture some video to post for Andy within the next day or two. If some of the other users can grab something quick of what you're seeing with the GBW and the Alt-Enter flicks, that would be awesome of you...
Thanks so much,
BSD team
Quote from: blueskydriver on March 28, 2011, 04:55:29 AM
Finally, we know Maurice you don't mind using the Windows key to go back and forth, since you like quick start icons so to speak. But, IMO, using Alt-Enter is so much easier; especially, for doing other things like dealing with FSUIPC, Add-ons or anything else dealing with the (Alt) menu bar in FSX. Even more so, if you had to go into FSUIPC make adjustments, then come back, but now NTHUSIM isn't working right. So, would you have to restart NTHUSIM everytime you make adjustments, because NTHUSIM is not coming back in right?
OK, I thought I mentioned that but maybe not. Alt-Enter works totally fine for me. I can go to window mode & come back to full screen with no problems and Nthusim does its thing with no problem as well. I just don't do it that way but it works nevertheless. Again, are you still using the evaluation version of Nthusim? If yes, that could be the problem since the full version works for sure (I can't really recall whether the evaluation version would allow going to window mode & back or not)
I can also go into FSUIPC while in full screen mode, make any changes there and close it and I am still in full screen mode with proper warping. If that is not working for you, then that is certainly not an Nthusim problem at that point.
The only problem I can confirm so far is if a temporary or permanent pop up with the green bar shows up, the screen does flicker until the pop up disappears. Once it disappears, the screen is back to normal.
If however a pop up with that infamous green bar does not go away until you do some action, then that is a real problem as the screen will indeed keep flickering to the point of being unusable. So far, I don't use anything that will do that since I have not loaded any of the programs/features that cause this problem.
Maurice
Guys...just tested the Beta NThusim ver.3,
and am glad to say the lads fixed the flickering green bar (shift-e).
I dont have all the other add-ons to test but Im confident youll be happy.
No issues with Alt-Enter either...
Nat
Thanks Maurice, Nat and the guys at NTHUSIM. We've been getting emails from Andy as well, and all looks really promising.
Just got up here and plan to spend all day working on this...really must say this hobby is so awesome and what a great group of people!
Additionally, big kudos to Bob Reed for hosting this site and Trevor Hale for maintaining it...thanks guys!
BSD team.
Edit: Maurice, we're using full version by the way...forgot to answer that from before.
Sorry to be late but been out of town traveling on business. I see therer has been a resolvolution and happy to hear though I never experienced the issues (because I dont use the green bar I guess).
Anyway, good news.
Scott
Hey Scott,
Glad you're back... Yes, some things have been resolved, but do check to see what you get with your setup. Started last night looking at NTHUSIM 3.0 with the new edge blending.
Here is what we've found so far:
1. On the inital install, the license got lost, so had to reverify it (no big deal).
2. Not sure why, but the saved config file from before was not imported correctly because 3.0 came as an un-configured setup, and it did not bring in the previous config. However, when importing the backup (previous) config (from secondary backup location), we selected backup instead of restore on the main program window(thinking backup as in backup in action...user error this part) and of course that overwrote the previous one.
How could this happen you ask; especially, when you have to confirm the save. Well, being a little excited about the edge blending, we got click happy, and another problem is that our projectors are too low like Maurice's, so we can't always see the dialogs.
Still, you might have to redo your projectors and NTHUSIM config anyway to work with the edge blending overlap. So, expect projector realignments.
3. Plan to email Andy about this part, but what we don't get is this; if the process is to start NTHUSIM first, then start FSX, why does it appear that NTHUSIM produces a full-screen mode of it's own first?
Try this, open NTHUSIM, then FSX (using a pre-saved FLT file if you like), and then you'll be in full screen mode (this will be stage one). Now, use Alt-Enter to go window mode (call this stage two), and then Alt-Enter again to go back to full screen mode (stage three). If you do this, try the Shift-E key at the end of each stage.
You'll notice that at stage one the Shift-E still has something wrong, but after stage two and three, it's fine and no flick or jumping. Thus, the problem is fixed right? Well, what dosen't make sense is why does the stage one actually occur, and what does this have to do with the green-bar and other pop-ups...how about the "FPS" factor? It seems that the FPS rate changes with these stages somehow.
If you read Nick Neeham's lastest guides he says stay away from Alt-Enter altogether (if possible), but if it's not possible, then there could be a FPS hit and this is without using NTHUSIM. However, if NTHUSIM is affecting FPS wouldn't that be of concern as well as what FSX already does when mode switching like this?
Finally, it can be somewhat easy to overlook all this since it is so trival. Still, if your like us and make updates to your setup, be it to FSX itself or an add-on, and it causes changes like this, it's better to know now what the problems are, rather then wait till it produces other problems with FSX or other add-ons later. We all know that problems in flight simulation is like setting up dominos; you push one all they all fall (uh, ...fail!)
I appreciate the heads up. No way I am messing with my projector alignment now so I will be sure to back everything up so I can go back if need be. I will let you know what I find.....hopefully have time Saturday to mess with it.
Scott
Quote3. Plan to email Andy about this part, but what we don't get is this; if the process is to start NTHUSIM first, then start FSX, why does it appear that NTHUSIM produces a full-screen mode of it's own first?
BSD,
NThusim will NOT make your FSX full-screen...it has no power over your .FSX cfg.
You are running fullscreen automatically, because that is the way you last exited
FSX. If you close FSX in window mode, it will restart windowed the next time.
(or modify your .FLT if you are starting up from a saved flight rather than the FSX.exe)
Maybe should do that if you need to tinker/play with other programs before youre ready to fly?
On the other note, I have never seen a frame rate drop due to NThusim/Sol7 at all.
Even alt-enetering does not effect my frames one bit...
Cheers,
Nat
Quote from: melnato on April 01, 2011, 01:09:16 AM
Quote3. Plan to email Andy about this part, but what we don't get is this; if the process is to start NTHUSIM first, then start FSX, why does it appear that NTHUSIM produces a full-screen mode of it's own first?
Nat, thank you for responding. Have you been checking NTHUSIM to see if any of this occurs on your setup (although, you're using Sol 7, so there would be differences)? If it doesn't then we're leaning more on something else...
BSD,
NThusim will NOT make your FSX full-screen...it has no power over your .FSX cfg.
You are running fullscreen automatically, because that is the way you last exited
FSX. If you close FSX in window mode, it will restart windowed the next time.
(or modify your .FLT if you are starting up from a saved flight rather than the FSX.exe)
This is exactly what we would expect to happen. The last mode is what comes back; however, using a FLT file or going from FSX program window (that has the aircraft, time of day, weather, and etc drop down menus) then choosing to load the pre-saved Flt file; we go right too a full screen view. This is where we first see the problem with the Green Bar Window (GBW). But, after using Alt-Enter (to window-mode, then full screen, that is when things change (as described eariler).
It is after you use Alt-Enter, that is where the problem with this GBW has been corrected by NTHUSIM folks. You won't see after switching modes. It is only on that inital start that it is there now. However, before their fix, it occured no matter what, and it caused the flicking.
Maybe should do that if you need to tinker/play with other programs before youre ready to fly?
The GBW is only one of the problems, but is because this flicking happens on it's own, even before using Alt-Enter. Still, not using the Alt menu in FSX or choosing any other program during the pre-flight stage is impossible, if you use FSXpassengers, FS2Crew or any other add-on that requires starting after the aircraft is loaded up and sitting on the taxiway, runway, and etc. If we didn't have to switch we wouldn't, but there is no other way to start these additional add-ons.
On the other note, I have never seen a frame rate drop due to NThusim/Sol7 at all.
Even alt-enetering does not effect my frames one bit...
We wouldn't expect to see a FPS drop either, but it is from this mode switching that things change. Plus, the Anti-Aliasing seems as if it's turned off if you use Alt-Enter (after that inital first stage full screen). We spent all day yesterday changing the video card drivers, Matrox drivers, checking Nick's guide and that that caused even worse problems. Pretty much the lower half of the screen was being video ripped (the polygon looking shapes) when NTHUSIM was turned on (started before). So, we, restored everything and plan to look at it all again today...
Cheers,
Nat
Thanks again for your help Nat.
Well, 3.0 is solving the GBW issue for sure. After totally uninstalling NTHUSIM and then installing 3.0 things look better.
In the mean time, has anyone ever done this; add a link onto the Alt-menu bar? Our thought is this, have a link on the Alt-menu bar say under "add-ons" (made-up name) next to modules, under that have any needed add-ons listed that would need to be opened. Upon clicking the add-on program name, say for example we have three listed:
EFB
FSXPassengers
FS2Crew
That would open the program (being that we'd use .exe as the link) and in the icon link properties we have the program set to minimize on opening. Thus, the program(s) would open minimized... This should stop the need to use Alt-Enter. (mode switching)
Being that we have made modifications to the Alt-menu in the past, while experimenting, it should be easy to do. Firgure that if software companies can do this for their programs, us users should be able to do it as well...
BSD
Edit: FSXPassengers is already on the Alt-menu bar. However, we know how to put the FS2Crew on the Views/panel menu.
By the way, FS2Crew FSX Default 737 will work with the imported PMDG 737; we've been doing it for quite sometime. If you want the panel.cfg to make this work use this: Note you must already own FS2Crew for FSX Default 737.
[VIEWS]
VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=20,21,22,23,24
VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=3.5,0.0,0.0
VIEW_FORWARD_RIGHT_WINDOWS=30
VIEW_FORWARD_RIGHT_DIR=1.7, 0.0, 45
VIEW_RIGHT_WINDOWS=34
VIEW_RIGHT_DIR=2.4, 0.0, 90
VIEW_REAR_RIGHT_WINDOWS=35
VIEW_REAR_WINDOWS=36
VIEW_REAR_LEFT_WINDOWS=33
VIEW_LEFT_WINDOWS=32
VIEW_LEFT_DIR=2.6, 0.0, 270
VIEW_FORWARD_LEFT_WINDOWS=31
VIEW_FORWARD_LEFT_DIR=2.7, 0.0, 315
VIEW_DOWN_WINDOWS=37
VIEW_DOWN_DIR=11.0, 0.0, 0.0
[Color]
Day=255,255,255
Night=255,255,255
[Window10]
size_mm=681, 57
pixel_size=681, 57
position=3
visible=0
ident=1000
zorder=100
gauge00=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_MainPanel, 0,0,681,57
gauge01=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_VoiceMain, 0,0,1,1
gauge02=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Audio, 0,0,1,1
[Window Titles]
//window00=Main Panel
Window09=Mini Panel
Window10=FS2Crew Main Panel
Window11=FS2Crew Configuration Panel
[Window00]
file_1024=737-800_panel_background.bmp
file_1024_night=737-800_panel_background_night.bmp
size_mm=1024
position=7
visible=1
ident=MAIN_PANEL
gauge07=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Icon, 892, 452, 59 ,59
gauge22=B737_800!flap_indicator, 892,452
[Window09]
position=6
size_mm=221,211
child_3d=1
background_color=0,0,0
ident=MINIPANEL
gauge00=B737_800!pfd_screen, 0, 0
gauge01=B737_800!pfd, 21,19,179,179
[Window10] //Main Panel
size_mm=681, 57
pixel_size=681, 57
position=3
visible=0
ident=1000
zorder=100
gauge00=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_MainPanel, 0,0,681,57
gauge01=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_VoiceMain, 0,0,1,1
gauge02=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Audio, 0,0,1,1
[Window11]
size_mm=866, 248
pixel_size=866, 248
position=4
visible=0
ident=1001
zorder=100
gauge00=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_AudioSetup, 0,0,866,62
gauge01=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_PreFlight, 0,62,866,62
gauge02=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Pushback, 0,124,866,62
gauge03=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_FlightData, 0,186,866,62
[VCockpitInfo]
TotalVCockpit=1
[VCockpit01]
size_mm=1024,1024
pixel_size=1024,1024
texture=$737_1