I am starting a new topic here to discuss what people are finding if they tried the NGx whether on a desktop or on a flight deck
So here are my first impressions.
Quote from: blueskydriver on August 06, 2011, 11:45:54 PM
Knowing there is a lot more to this new plane, but the sound observation is for sure a stand out...
BSD
Well, I took your word and others as well about the sound quality and I bought the program just for the sounds. So here are my findings so far:
1. Engine sounds are indeed very good & much better than the standard 800, especially the reversers sounds
2. Many sounds cannot be heard; here are a few
[GEAR_UP_WARNING_SOUND]
filename=PMDG737NGX_J1
flags=0
viewpoint=1
maximum_volume=10
[STALL_WARNING]
filename=PMDG737NGX_J4
flags=0
viewpoint=1
maximum_volume=10
[OVERSPEED_WARNING_SOUND]
filename=PMDG737NGX_J3
flags=0
viewpoint=1
maximum_volume=10
[AP_DISENGAGE_SOUND]
filename=PMDG737NGX_J2
flags=0
viewpoint=1
maximum_volume=10
If you play these with media player, you hear nothing as well and I am wondering if these sounds require a proprietary PMDG audio player.
Other sounds such as landing gear, flaps, touchdown... play in media player but I cannot hear them while flying. Perhaps it is just a question of increasing the volume.
So, my early conclusion is that most of the NGx sounds are very good indeed but several will need to be fixed. This really surprises me based on the amount of testing that was done unless they only work with the full NGx package.
Very curious to hear whether anyone has tried it in a desktop yet and whether they can hear those sounds.
Maurice
Sounds like a special player is being used and they are tripping some of the sounds with their proprietary offsets. Sounds very proprietary to me.... We will see if I was wrong. So far does not look that way.
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 08, 2011, 09:35:22 AM
Sounds like a special player is being used and they are tripping some of the sounds with their proprietary offsets. Sounds very proprietary to me.... We will see if I was wrong. So far does not look that way.
It does sound like that to me but I'm still glad I bought the program. Unless I'm wrong, the sound.cfg file will need to be edited and the 'missing' sounds may need to be replaced by original or other sounds.
Probably lots of work but for sure I will keep the engine sounds as they are much better than what I had before.
Maurice
You can bet that it's internal to the simulation itself and needs the panel to work.
Don
Quote from: dharrison on August 08, 2011, 10:04:17 AM
You can bet that it's internal to the simulation itself and needs the panel to work.
Don
Absolutely. I just noticed that they have a PMDG folder inside the sound folder in FSX (the one just below the root FSX folder). Inside that folder, there are lots of sound files, much more that in the sound folder inside the airplane folder.
So, it will take lots of time to figure all this out for sure and see what sounds can and cannot be used.
Maurice
Hi to all,
Few hours ago I purchased and installed the base NGX package in my sim. The install was straight forward even though I didnt like the fact that during installation you have to install together with the package, one or two c++ files which most Probably must be needed for the NGX somehow. I am generally very causious when installing software that I do not know what it does. Anyway, it seems that everything is ok now, and nothing was harmed.
After choosing the 737-800 NGX it was understood from the begining that it sounds good, meaning that the sound package is indeed the best I have ever tried, and believe me I have strugled many hours in the past for the best sound package for me. So yes the sound is excelent.
PM software and NGX are not so good friends in my opinion, and it is something that enrico must deal with. The MCP works fine, but I only made a test flight around Athens, so I cannot know for sure. What I am really sure is that the flaps do not work at all , with my rsp tq flaps do not change. Another strange thing is that my leobodnard card switches also didnt work, but thats in my opinion is a fsuipc4 thing...
I did a test flight and it feels good, but I cannot see a huge differrence from my tweaked default b 737-800, so till PM releases a new update for the NGX I am staying with my good old 737....
It is a great desktop aircraft thought...
My 2 c
Nick
PM wont be releasing anything for the NGX package. Nothing works because they don't use standard offsets and they do not put out the data any of the network software can use. All of their stuff is driven from within the software. They do this on purpose.
From what I have read, you will not be able to have PM or SIM-A access these as they are reliant on FSUIPC offsets. Addiontally PMDG uses a revised default setup for configuing axises. They recommend that you configure your axis via FS not FSUIPC. So those who configure their stuff via FSUICP are up a creek.
Don
Quote from: dharrison on August 08, 2011, 12:10:13 PM
From what I have read, you will not be able to have PM or SIM-A access these as they are reliant on FSUIPC offsets. Addiontally PMDG uses a revised default setup for configuing axises. They recommend that you configure your axis via FS not FSUIPC. So those who configure their stuff via FSUICP are up a creek.
Don
Again,
WAY wrong! I have my TQ going through FSUIPC and it controls the NGX great! Thats spoilers, including spoiler arm, trim, flaps, throttle and rev thrust. I am even using FSUIPC to control functions with-in the NGX. Ck out LINDA on the avsim forum, amazing!There is SO much bad info going around right now it is pitiful. I think anything said from ANY 3rd party systems designer should be taken with a huge grain of salt. Just my .02
Rob
Again time will tell. Enough people have this in their hands now that we should be getting more data. Rob, that is good but what about the rest of the sim?
The displays of course and cdu but engravity has already said that once they have the SDk they will release a driver to make their cdu's interface with the NGX. Yesterday i flew 8hrs on the sim using the stock NGX with Prosim driving my displays. I just input the route on both cdu's and it all worked fine. I had my displays showing the route that the NGX was flying. Not perfect but it hasn't even been 4 full days since release yet. LOL
By the way, my wife talked me into keeping the pit, wasn't hard though! LOL I WILL bw using most of this NGX though if not all of it.
Rob
Quote from: 727737Nut on August 08, 2011, 12:42:14 PM
By the way, my wife talked me into keeping the pit, wasn't hard though! LOL I WILL bw using most of this NGX though if not all of it.
Rob
A very wise better half. :) Welcome back to the madness.
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
Thank you for the compliments on the sounds - it took about 7 months to get them working like that.
Now in reference to the missing sounds - there is no need to worry about it. The missing sounds you identified are behaving correctly - they are deliberately pointing to blank sounds files because all of the sound files you mentioned are included as part of the PMDG custom coding. So we had to blank out the FSX versions so they would not "double play". If you have a look in the PMDG custom sounds folders you will find over 400 individual sounds including the ones you believe are missing.
Also - one more point to add. Many of the PMDG custom sounds, particularly switch sounds will not play in Windows Media player- not because they are a secret file format but only because the file length are REALLY short - this is to allow you to rapid click switches and the sounds will always trigger even though you click them very fast. However, if you open these very short files in an audio editor, like Wavelab, then you can see and edit even these short sounds.
Thanks again for your comments!
Armen
PMDG Sound Engineer
Hi Armen
Would your intervention mean that the PMDG folks are reading our lines or is it a personal comment.
In any case, all the recent debate we had here would be much more constructive if we had the feeling that PMDG has some attention to cockpitbuilders needs.
As seen in the various posts on the subject, a lot of contradictory information has been circulated and it would be nice if you Guys could set it right.
I am not asking here for PMDG to change its strategy, just to give us the right info to use the product considering our special needs, if it can be used.
Our Community is a amazing pool of Flight Simulation knowledge and working together on development and applications has always been the way to go.
This Forum is non commercial, wide open to all, and you Guys are welcome.
Jack
Hi Armen,
Thank you very much for joining in & explaining several things. I did find the PMDG sound folders with the 'missing' files just after my first post so I knew that the sounds were there in the full PMDG package. I didn't really believe they could have been missed after all the testing that was done, but I just did not know where they were at that time :)
I just hope that I can figure out how to combine or replace some of the other default 800 sounds with PMDG sounds which are truly outstanding based on the engine sounds and the other sounds I played with media player.
Thankfully, the PMDG engine sounds are totally useable in a flight deck and I just love switching the engine reversers on just to listen to them. If that is all that I can use in a flight deck that would still justify buying the software.
Congratulations for creating these great sounds. Hopefully some developers will be able to integrate some of the other PMDG features so that we can use them in our flight decks.
To echo what Jack said, I am sure PMDG knows that the market for their software is not just desktop simmers but also the ever growing crowd of flight deck builders who are hungry for such an outstanding flight package. So helping 'integrators' would be a win-win situation.
Best regards,
Maurice
Hi Armen,
Thank you for your post! I am an old customer of the PMDG 737NG for FS2004 and used it with my homecockpit perfectly. Now I've switched this year to FSX and tried to use the old PMDG 737NG, but I have less problems with the default one. I'll probably buy the NGX in the next few days, cause of the sounds. But I would also pay an additional fee, for a version witout panels and exterior design to use with PM or SIM A software. You should change the code easily for this requirement. I can understand that you do not want to share an open flight model. But a flight model, which only work with your code and that works again only with a valid license could that be a way?
Best Regards
Jan
Hello Jan,
Not speaking for Armen, but since he is a sound engineer, its not likely that he can help you with your request. However, us other builders could and in doing so, what exactly have you done that the PMDG 737NG for FS9 does not work in FSX for you?
If it is matter of stripping it down and knowing where to put the folders, that is no problem at all. You'll find that this is a pretty common task that so many others have done, so a search of this forum should provide that information. If not, send a PM for more help...
BSD
Hi BSD,
thanks for your hint! As I sad I´ve had "less" problems with the default 737 and not only problems with the PMDG 737NG ;-)
My post to Armen were just my thoughts - and meant less asking.
Regards
Jan
Thanks for the replies guys.
To be honest, being the sound guy means I have had my hands full with only sound related items. I don't know too much about SDKs - I presume it would allow a cockpit builder to interface with the NGX systems - you see, im just a mere keyboard and mouse guy! :)
Right now, our focus is getting the guys with panel freezes and other technical issues sorted before moving onto release the Paint Kit and the SDK, so I hope it won't be long before Robert makes a statement about the current state of affairs.
Thanks again.
Armen,
Thanks for all your hard work, as the sounds thus far, are the best ever heard in FSX!
Glad you mentioned the paint kit and SDK; mainly the SDK. I've tried forum postings, private messages to Ryan, and even a support ticket to ask one simple question.
Will the SDK be given to regular users/customers or not?
A simple Yes or No will suffice... Maybe, you could ask Ryan to clarify this once and for all. Because it doesn't really matter when it gets released, but more importantly, whom it gets released too.
Once the answer is known, it will give some of the cockpit builders a sigh of relief, if it is a Yes answer. The SDK will likely be the best thing that PMDG could ever do; it would be like MSFS not releasing SimConnect or FSUIPC being only for developers if is not released to us.
Again, thank you for answering the questions in this forum and for becoming a member...
Blueskydriver
John,
I posted that question in the NGX forum and Ryan answered it already , YES YES YES YES YES, it will be available to ANYONE! Below is his quote to my question/ your question. There, answered, done, from the horses mouth! :)
From Ryan at PMDG
Anyone will be able to download it - whether you can use it or not is going to be up to whether you know how to program drivers. The SDK is not something that magically makes the custom functions in the plane work with any hardware - that can't exist.
Also noticed you replied to it already in the Avsim forum!????? Was Ryan not clear enough in the above statement?
Rob
Sorry Rob, that is so strange. Didn't read "Anyone" when I first saw his reply. I know it sounds funny, but I honestly did not see that... My mistake!
Well then, that answers the question and thus, just wait till it comes out...
I sent my apolgy to Ryan in the PMDG forum. Additionally, thank you for pointing this out too me. It certainly is a relief to know this.
Thank you
John
No worries, time will tell on how much the SDK will help.
Rob
I am sure one of the fine folks here will be able to make heads or tales out of it... Now if it will help or not, like Rob says, time will tell.
Mau or anyone...!
Have you figured out how to strip the NGX of the panel and associated logic
and still keep sounds???
Nat
Quote from: melnato on August 11, 2011, 05:55:25 PM
Mau or anyone...!
Have you figured out how to strip the NGX of the panel and associated logic
and still keep sounds???
Nat
I did a quick try in the same way we used to do it for the FS9 PMDG version on FSX and it was a dismal failure. I really did not want to spend too much time on it since all I was interested in for now were the sounds.
I couldn't even get rid of the virtual cockpit inside views on the right & left views in the same way I could remove them before.
Anyway, for now, I just replaced the default 800 sound folder with the PMDG sound folder but as I said before, all I am getting are the engine sounds since the other sounds depend on the PMDG logic as Armen explained.
I'm still trying to recover some other PMDG sounds but not having much success. The flaps sounds in particular will be impossible to recover I think since they depend on the airspeed and I don't think FSX modeled that.
So in a nutshell, the answer to your question is no :). Just waiting for you to do all the hard work and showing everyone how you did it ;D
Mau
If anyone can hear the flap sounds in the real airplane your havin a bad bad day! I wouldnt worry too much.
Funny thing as well.. Everyone is going after that buzzsaw engine sound and i have listened closely on takeoff as well as recorded the sounds on my phone. Funny thing is that sound really is only noticable in first class as well as when its being recorded. It is a bit more noticable on the shorter 737's like to 500 and 700. The 800 and 900 you dont hear it. Maybe its a filtering effect im guessing in recording devices?
If you want to simulate a real airplane simulate air vents, the altimeter clacker, and front tire sounds and thumps on pavement. Thats what you hear. But thats no fun i guess :)
Just sayin :)
Mike L
Thanks Mau :P
I'll give it a good shot...and report back.
Nat
Quote from: MLeavy737 on August 11, 2011, 08:11:02 PM
If anyone can hear the flap sounds in the real airplane your havin a bad bad day! I wouldnt worry too much.
Funny thing as well.. Everyone is going after that buzzsaw engine sound and i have listened closely on takeoff as well as recorded the sounds on my phone. Funny thing is that sound really is only noticable in first class as well as when its being recorded. It is a bit more noticable on the shorter 737's like to 500 and 700. The 800 and 900 you dont hear it. Maybe its a filtering effect im guessing in recording devices?
If you want to simulate a real airplane simulate air vents, the altimeter clacker, and front tire sounds and thumps on pavement. Thats what you hear. But thats no fun i guess :)
Just sayin :)
Mike L
I love this post, half the sounds we have in FS you never hear. The engine sound is from what I understand barely noticable particularly when in the cockpit and at speed. You are right, wind noise, equipemnt noise and air are all you really hear plus the dropping for the nose gear.
Don
Hey Mike,
Could you post the recordings you made? That would be the best thing to go from, even if it is your cell phone (maybe you could take a camera next time). Hold the device by this items, so we can get the real sound.
The problem with finding this info or sound out, is that videos on youtube or the videos that are made like here sound differently. Likely, it is due to professional recording gear being used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCAW1sfF1Q8&feature=player_embedded
skip up to 2:05
Turn your volume way up guys! On the take off, the recorder does pick up the engines (only on acceleration), the wheel bounce, the gear coming up and must be nose gear doors (sounds like big screw jack?). Once, in flight the sounds get lower in the video, (but that could be the audio recording being turned up for the FO's mic, to hear him speaking).
BSD
Quote from: MLeavy737 on August 11, 2011, 08:11:02 PM
If anyone can hear the flap sounds in the real airplane your havin a bad bad day! I wouldnt worry too much.
Mike L
No worries at all Mike...just going for the 'cool' effect. And the engine reversers sounds in the PMDG are about as cool as I ever heard. Let's face it, if today's planes were made so that you did not hear any outside sounds, flying a simulator would not be nearly as much fun.
Sound effects (real or not) add a lot to the immersion feeling and it just feels more real if you can hear the rumble of the flaps or the clunking gear sounds or the brake sounds etc...even if you can't hear them in a real airplane cockpit.
It's not about creating reality, but about creating the illusion of reality.
My opinion anyway :)
Maurice
What's funny is that we're using the PMDG 737 NG from FS9 and the add-on Audio Environment package. With it, they sound just like they do in the video link (above) Do not hear the screw sound with add-on, but the engines are that low in volume, and once airbone, you don't hear them at all.
Maurice is right about the "feeling" or sense of the reality. Although, we prefer here to hear (uh, a pun) the one's we have already over the PMDG 737NGX. Yep, as odd as that sounds, PMDG 737NGX is awesome, but Audio Enviroment is more like the video. Sadly, one of us has a problem with sleeping, and therefore use a white noise sound generator in the bedroom. The cockpit sounds just like it, so always getting drowsy when flying.
Maybe, that's why we put those big truck sub-woofer speakers under the paltform years ago. When you hear the bumps from taxi/runway or the gear coming up, it's under you feet and seat, as well as throughout the cockpit. The only way to feel or hear this, is you'd have to come here and sit in it.
Another thing we're doing is placing the FSX computer speakers in the cockpit, with two (left and right) on the front glareshield and one center on the glareshield, two (left and right) on the floor behind the seats (the surrounds), the compter sub-woofer speaker behind the Capt seat. Then using FSX sound settings, turn down the engine sounds to half way or so, and let enviroment sounds settings be higher than that.
As for those big sub-woofer speakers under the platform, they're driven by a 200 watt AMP, and have an EQ in line to adjust out the mids and highs. Then, the sound comes from another PC that is running PM Sounds with almost everything unchecked (ground sounds only).
Above there is a panel, where the Aft Overhead would be, we have a set of PC speakers connected to another PC with PM Sounds running, and with only the sounds that would come from above; no ground sounds.
We are taking the low end of the FSX computer sounds and also running those through the sub-woofers under the platform. Audio Enviroment does things that PM Sounds does not and vice-versa, so we're just doing a combination hook-up.
Finally, for those life-like air sounds, there is two air conditioners, 12 computers, three projectors, and two large fans on the computer rack, so that air sound is all over the room here...lol. Plan to hook up those air vent/ports to get that "whispy" sound blowing in our faces too. And no, not that whispy sound from the "human gas pressure relief valve" either.
Oh, on occasion, we use the UT2007 to play out the Airport Annoucnements while waiting to taxi or while doing pre-flight, before the main door gets closed by FSX Passengers/AES.
Now, if only we could have Obnoxious Passengers like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Si6JDQWWzc
Got to love..."Want to make it 8?"...lol!
BSD
BSD, sounds like you have one heck of a nice sound system. Me I'm still trying to figure out why the cockpit sound volumes are not always the same volume in every flight.
Anyway, that's another subject for another day. I'm glad I don't have obnoxious passengers and if I did, I could easily make them sick with a bit of aerobatic like flying in a 737. With these visuals, not hard to make people sick even if they don't suffer from motion sickness ;D
Maurice
BSD,
Can you describe what you are doing for ATC. Right now we have some headsets connected to a seperate computer running Radar Contact so all ATC is through the headsets. Don and I tried one night to get (Sqawkbox) SB running for Vatsim on that same computer so we could use the headsets but could not for the life of us figure out the convoluted steps to get SB running in a networked computer fashion. So I was planning on putting SB on the main FSX computer but then I dont know how the sound will work through headsets for ATC but throught the 7.1 speaker system for all else. I was also thinking maybe of trying to use the USB headsets to see if that would work. Currently my PTT switches on the yokes are interfaced via the main FSX computer anyway and seems if I can get SB running there it would be easiest. Just have to figure out how to handle seperation of the sounds.
Thoughts? (PS, - I can also move this to another thread but close to topic of sounds anyway)
Scott
Hi Scott,
Just a shortie:
I have SB client on my "ATC" computer so it does not interfere with FS9 sounds.
Install was easy - SB on both the FS Computer and "ATC" computer and during install you tell SB that it will be run on another computer than where FS is installed.
This is the best setup for FS9, and I assume that it is the same with FSX.
You then will have ATC in either loudspeakers/headset or both. I have a MC intercom as well so CPT/FO can speak to each other the same time with headsets on. The PTT buttons are connected to the FS computer and works in the ATC computer via FSUIPC no special action needed except assigning the PTT buttons.
Best,
Bjorn
Quote from: XOrionFE on August 12, 2011, 08:57:29 AM
BSD,
Can you describe what you are doing for ATC. Right now we have some headsets connected to a seperate computer running Radar Contact so all ATC is through the headsets. Don and I tried one night to get (Sqawkbox) SB running for Vatsim on that same computer so we could use the headsets but could not for the life of us figure out the convoluted steps to get SB running in a networked computer fashion. So I was planning on putting SB on the main FSX computer but then I dont know how the sound will work through headsets for ATC but throught the 7.1 speaker system for all else. I was also thinking maybe of trying to use the USB headsets to see if that would work. Currently my PTT switches on the yokes are interfaced via the main FSX computer anyway and seems if I can get SB running there it would be easiest. Just have to figure out how to handle seperation of the sounds.
Thoughts? (PS, - I can also move this to another thread but close to topic of sounds anyway)
Scott
SB can be accessed over the network for PTT button. Are they still using SB, I thought they had something else they where using?
Setup of SB in FSX is much different as it uses SimConnect. Makes it not so easy...
Don
Scott,
We don't use SB right now, but could go set it up to help you figure it out.
If you know your sound card(s) are setup and working, you can skip down to:SECOND START
Suggest you still read all of this though.
As for FSX, the best way we found to do it here was one of two ways:
1. Have two sound devices in the system unit (computer) and set one as sound (FSX sounds), and the other as voice (ATC) in FSX (USB Headset is used first in this explaination).
Thing is this: you have to set FSX and Windows to the defaults, but it a different way. With Windows, you go to the audio settings>control panel>sound.
There you will see the Playback and Recording tabs. On Playback tab, click the sound card that will be the FSX sounds only device, and then click the "Set Default" button. That will now place a green check next to that device in the window.
In the Recroding Tab, select the other sound (voice ATC) device (USB) and set default to it (just like above). You will now have a green check for it.
Next, you need to make sure you have the right mic input being used on the Recording tab, on the sound (voice ATC) USB headset for the mic. You must make sure the levels are up enough to record and that playback through the headphones is loud enough (likely you are wearing a headset w/mic right?).
Just use the Playback and Recording Tabs again and on the Playback right mouse click the sound (voice ATC) card, and then select properties. Now, look at levels tab. You should see Headset Earphone and Headset Microphone; slide them to 100. select Apply and OK (if not already).
Now, do the same procedure for the Recording tab, and when you get to levels this time you will only see Headset Microphone...set it to 100. Click Ok. At this point, when you talk into the microphone you should hear yourself in the headphones and see the meters moving, if they are, you half way there.
Now , you go through the same process for the FSX sound card, but instead of Headphone and Mic levels, you will be adjusting the sound levels for the sound card. Just adjust them to your liking, but make sure you have any mic inputs for that sound card muted by clickling on the little speaker icon; you should see a red circle slash over the little speaker when muted.
SECOND START
2. If you did all the above (or all was working already), you now just tell FSX in the sound settings (Windows sound devices) to use the sound card for Sounds and the USB headset for Voice. After you do that, exit out of FSX and restart the computer. That last sentence is too make sure FSX reserves what you did in the Sound Settings; otherwise, you will see default device (and a named device). You don't want default because IMO it screws things up.
What if you're using two sound cards. Well, the only difference would be, that instead of Headset and Mic Headset for USB, you would be adjusting the levels on both sound cards, but one would have its Mic unmuted (which would be your headset microphone).
The best way to check to make sure you're communicating and hearing your sounds is to do multiplayer in Gamespy. If all is good, then you're good...
Now, you would setup SB on the same FSX computer.
Of course you asked about doing SB on another networked computer. Well, that was another reason for all the above, making sure you're hearing and recording yourself. So, just verify the settings with the sound card or USB headset on the networked computer. You could have everything working, but not recording. Without it recording (because you're going through the record loop of Windows) the SB or FSX ATC will not work no matter what.
Finally, we have done SB in the past here, exactly the way you have described, but since it's been awhile just need to go recheck stuff.
BSD Team
Scott, just to verify, you're usinf Squawkbox 4.0 right? Anything below 4 didnt work on FSX...
BSD
Restarted SB4 and FSX here:
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=1995.msg15251#new
BSD
Sure ill record some sounds on my cell. Already did a 500 out of Denver this morning and ill get an 800 in about an hour.
I agree with ya Maurice.. Like i said as well, wouldnt be as much fun in the sims if it sounded too real. I like the extra sounds as well.. Adds to the immersion factor for sure.
Mike L