Have just been trying the new Version 2 on my flight sim computer just on an ordinary 1080 LCD screen. It has a GTX 680 with 4 g. ram on it and running the cpu at 4.5 g.
So first off, the install was not very good as I could not get it to install with the setup.exe so had to use the MSI. I guess they got their instructions wrong on that one.
Seems to have a lot of problems as to weather not loading when you use your own setup, etc. Lots of small things that appear not to be correct as yet. Could be due to the install as well.
Good news is that the graphics are great and the previous problems of FSX are pretty much gone. Clouds are terrific, so much so, that I figure that add-ons are not needed. That is a good point at this stage of development, that I would advise against any add-ons at all. They can add to problems !
The 4g. video card does the job very well, as I have tried 3 screens on the 1080 LCD and get good frame rates. The heavier the clouds are, there is a drop in frame rates but seem manageable.
So all in all , I think with time, this will be a winner, but suspect that this version was rushed before Xmas for profit !
Hope some others chime in with their thoughts on V 2.
Cheers..............Brian W.
I have the same rig as you roughly but didn't not get that great of frame rates but I was running 3 monitors at 1080p but with 4 windows to create the correct angles. Not sure if you were running that way or as one large single view. I agree on the clouds. It shows promise for sure. That said, it won't pull me away from X-Plane which I still feel is superior with hardware. Getting better all the time I think with Avionics and cockpit building.
Scott
A lot of program install issues with win 7 and up are due to not using the "run as administrator" when first launching the setup.exe Not suggesting that was the case here as it could very well be a corrupted download but definitely something to keep in mind as a troubleshooting tool.
I agree with your thoughts though and once a few of the issues are sorted out I think it will be a solid platform. I think its still too early (at least for me anyway) to make the change. Looking fwd to V2.1 and hopefully SLI support.
Xplane - Still waiting for Tekworx drivers for the FDS radios and transponder + a good engine sound set. I just cant seem to find good sound set for my aircraft type. This is one area where I find FS9, FSX and P3D to be far superior. Hopefully PMDG will be able to come up with something for 747 if they ever build that for xplane.
Gary
P3D v2 is my proffered Sim now...feels like "home" but better.
LM has a few silly bugs to iron out but no show stoppers.
Once I gave up on trying to run it on one computer, and went back to my trusted
multi-channel...smooth as silk.
And yes the clouds are sensational. I just happened to pull out the phone last night and shoot
a few minutes of video buzzing through the clouds.
This is ALL default textures and clouds...Zero tweaks and Add-ons:
Nat
http://youtu.be/g0MDWP8zuUQ (http://youtu.be/g0MDWP8zuUQ)
That's a great Video Nat. I will have to revisit this method as well.
Gary
Much the same as Nat for me i.e. my preferred sim platform. Still running v1.4 but really only to transfer installed scenery across to v2.0. No install issues at all for me but did run the setup.exe as Admin. Although frame rates can go down at time it doesn't seem to have the same slideshow effect of previous versions. I run mine with 3 undocked views into 3 HD monitors so testing the GPU a bit (GTX680 2Gb) but you can hear the GPU fan ramp up as it belts out the pixels. v2.0 starts faster than v1.4 and FSX but can take a short while for the frames to settle in after the scenery has loaded but this is stated in the LM documentation. Yes a few quirks still but hopefully to be adressed in v2.1 Loaded lots of Orbx airports and FTX Global without issue, running in Legacy mode for the likes of FSInn but makes no difference to performance.
Having said that I'm also keen to get more into X-plane for obvious reasons however I do find the aircraft very twitchy to fly, I'm sure its up to axis settings but can't seem to get it sorted so far. Too little time to spend on it at the moment but at least we now have a path to progress.
Ken.
Maybe a coincidence, but afte installing FTX Global on
all machines, Im getting very frequent BSOD on the right channel only.
It may well be the computer, but gee its annoying....
What kind of frames do you get at your heaviest airport Ken?
Nat
Nat, pays to have a read here:
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/429245-well-at-least-one-dev-is-waking-up-or-is-it-retreating/ (http://forum.avsim.net/topic/429245-well-at-least-one-dev-is-waking-up-or-is-it-retreating/)
I have always used Orbx in the past for Australian scenery, but was a little wary of trying it on P3D V2 after reading some of these posts.
So I guess time will tell if there is a fix coming for some of the problems that seem to be emerging.
Win 7 seems to be some of the install problems some of us are having, as I had to go in and allow the last folder made by V2 and give it clearance before it would finish the install. So typical W 7 having to have admin rights everywhere even with UAC turned off.
Cheers................Brian W.
Quote from: Nat Crea on December 15, 2013, 02:55:27 AM
Maybe a coincidence, but afte installing FTX Global on
all machines, Im getting very frequent BSOD on the right channel only.
It may well be the computer, but gee its annoying....
What kind of frames do you get at your heaviest airport Ken?
Nat
Nat, around 15's at heavy airports like Orbx YMML.
My install and subsequent running of v2.0 has been without issue apart from niggles with black full screens etc however these are known and being addressed in v2.1 I beleive. My installation is side by side with v1.4 but v2.0 is on its own SSD. All addon scenery and airports are simply directory sourced from v1.4 to v2.0 except for FTX Global which is a full installation into V2.0 The Estonia Migration Tool has also been used to install the likes of F1 aircraft and PMDG 737NGX along with FSInn. No problems with anything as yet but awaiting v2.1 to tidy up some issues. Have been getting some aircraft and ground vehicles bouncing unceremoniously and still working through the cause and solution for that but seems to be related to addon aircraft.
EDIT: Ok it seems turning Tessellations off is the fix for the bouncing aircraft and ground vehicles.
Ken.
Thanks Ken.
Just wanted to make sure it wasn't isolated,
I was getting 20's at YMML..not good enough for
my liking. Getting more than double with multi-channel...
how do you guys put up with that??? :D
Nat
Any issues putting in wideview Nat? I read some other threads where it seems it was not working or at least had to be manipulated to get the menus to show up.
Scott
After reviewing the range of comments on Prepar3d 2.0 ... Just a guess, but it seems that this software is not quite ready for the market. The idea that most folks trying it, all have some sort of issue with its behavior. It makes me a bit skeptical to give it a try at this time.
Is there suppose to be a new release coming soon, or is it better to wait for a few months? I know the answer to this is somewhat subjective, but I wondered if those that have tried it, in hind-sight, would have waited. In my case, I am using Sim-Avionics for the flight model.
Also, do you think it is better to run it on its own HD or SSD (fresh install) or should it run along side of FSX? Are many of these issues related to the Migration Tool, and does the Migration Tool have an ongoing impact once Prepar3d is installed?
Hats off to those of you who are brave enough to take the lead on new products like this.
Mike
Quote from: sagrada737 on December 16, 2013, 06:04:02 AM
After reviewing the range of comments on Prepar3d 2.0 ... Just a guess, but it seems that this software is not quite ready for the market.
Just like FSX then :) sorry mike couldn't resist!!
Mike,
P3DV2 is a really nice experience on its own merits, but if you want it as an exchange for FSX - it is too early.
There are almost zero addon airport scenery available that will work in P3DV2, and I believe it will remain so for at least several months.
So, my 2 cents - you will be better off waiting until you see airport scenery on the horizon ;)
The Estonian Migration tool has no impact at all.
It only cheats the installer to believe you are installing in FSX.
In general P3DV2 is a huge lap forward compared to FSX - silk smooth with few bugs.
It will however like an I5 or I7 OC:d to say 4.5 and a late graphics adapter in the top range with 4 GB memory.
Best,
Bjorn
Proud P3DV2 owner albeit not at this moment - user.
Gday Scott,
Once you add a fake folder and xml into P3dv2,
Wideview works 100%,. menus and all.
I'm away for a few days, but email me so I can send
you the info.
@ Rhys....LOL
Nat
All
Just to confirm Wideview works 100% but you need to add some stuff to P3D to get it working. Vatsim FSinn works if you start P3D in legacy mode!
I'm not convinced yet as it shimmers really bad and most of the great tweaks we had in FSX dont work.
It'll be a waiting game methinks!
Back to FSX and enjoy the flying : )
Mark
QuoteP3DV2 is a really nice experience on its own merits, but if you want it as an exchange for FSX - it is too early.
P3D was never meant to be nor likely ever be an exchange for FS X. That wasn't in LM's plans and it certainly isn't in their license from MS....which is very restrictive.
LM needed a decent training tool and FS X provided the ESP platform that allowed them to do that relatively quickly. Add on airports, scenery, utilities etc can only be done if the 3rd party people decide there is a sufficient enough market to do so. So for the time being, it is a very slow process.
Well all addon airports I've tried so far work without issue in v2.0, and other options such as FSInn and EZDOK also when running in Legacy mode. Haven't had a chance to do any long flights so far (bloody Christmas cheer:) ) but I would agree with Bjorn that although it's a huge leap forward and looks very promising it does look as though it was released way too early, the bugs being experienced must have been seen by the beta testers and for my mind should have been addressed before release. Having said that the LM developers are very active in the support forums and have v2.1 coming out soon I believe. They also mentioned they would probably be releasing a series of small patches to cater for issues more swiftly rather than wait and release a large update. And yes it will be an update not another full release as with v1.X updates, so should not impact on current installation addons and tweaks.
Ken.
One thing of note which I think people are forgetting. Yes all FSX addons 'should' work with P3D 2.0 now but remember when it goes 64bit most things will not work and will need to be rewritten into 64bit!!
P3D 64bit will be like starting again!
Just :2cw:
Rhys b
Brian and Nat,
I have also been testing P3D V2 in prep for my cockpit, using 3 x High def projectors, like Nat's.
There are a lot of wise words here, including the one's about giving it some time.
Out of the box, I found it to be stunning, with great FPS and awesome clouds, etc. ,just like Nat's video showed.
I bought FTX Global, cos it's the only ORBX scenery built for P3D V2 at the moment. I'm disappointed that I can't have my beautiful Ozzie airports in their full glory, because there isn't any installers yet, but when they come, I'll ditch Global and go back to my AU regions.
I honestly believe we will see a huge shift now, with the development community, when they realise the growing consumer base.
As well, and has been mentioned, no other platform takes advantage of our newest hardware like P3D.
So, for the moment, I will continue to test it and evaluate it and try and iron some of the kinks out.
I believe it will be worth it in the end,
Frank Cooper
Nat
Just got through watching your video. A couple of comments.
1) Your visual system is about the only one I've seen so far that makes me (slightly) question my plans to use 3 really large HDTVs. Bravo on the visuals- looks really great.
2) Someone over on YouTube posted as a comment to your video the following: "Nat, sorry to burst your bubble but there are no volumetric clouds in P3Dv2. Possibly in v2.1. There is only a pseudo-volumetric fog layer and the clouds have some better fading and scaling while flying though them but they are the same 2D textured sprites as in FS X. But that doesn't make P3Dv2 any less impressive though."
Well, that may be true (I do not know myself) but regardless, it appears to me that the clouds are far and away better looking in P3D. It may be shading/shadowing, etc. but it def looks much better.
Bravo again!
I don't know what volumetric clouds are supposed to look like but all I can say is that flying through clouds in P3d is 'volumetrically' better than in FSX where the 'clouds' seem to wraparound your airplane when you fly through them.
It may well be volumetric fog that you see in P3d but who cares as long as it looks very nice & almost real :)
Maurice
Quote from: tennyson on December 17, 2013, 04:39:03 AM
As well, and has been mentioned, no other platform takes advantage of our newest hardware like P3D.
Frank Cooper
Far from true. It is 32 bit app still. X-Plane on the other hand is 64 bit. Truly XP currently is the only platform that can take full advantage of todays hardware.
P3D v2 is definitely a step in the right direction but far from utilizing todays hardware. It is still largely old code and a 32 bit app.
Scott is correct! I do not think Microsoft sold the base code so it will stay a 32bit app. It is not the savior everyone seems to think it is going to be. Microsoft may have sold them use of some of the rights, I can tell you they did not sell them the code.
Quote from: Bob Reed on December 17, 2013, 04:37:13 PM
Microsoft may have sold them use of some of the rights, I can tell you they did not sell them the code.
So what? If LM can design the F16, the F22 raptor and many other aircrafts, I'm sure they have enough very competent software people that could write their own code, assuming of course they think it's a big enough market to bother with it.
The fact that they even bothered creating P3d suggests to me they think it has a future, but who knows? :)
Maurice
Quote from: Maurice on December 17, 2013, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: Bob Reed on December 17, 2013, 04:37:13 PM
Microsoft may have sold them use of some of the rights, I can tell you they did not sell them the code.
So what? If LM can design the F16, the F22 raptor and many other aircrafts, I'm sure they have enough very competent software people that could write their own code, assuming of course they think it's a big enough market to bother with it.
The fact that they even bothered creating P3d suggests to me they think it has a future, but who knows? :)
Maurice
Maurice,
Problem is that's not what LM is interested in doing and it's not the market that is driving them. They can't market P3D like MS marketed FS X and that's in the license. MS would have to sell them the entire FS X package and I somehow doubt they have any interest in that at all.
Quote from: HarryZ on December 17, 2013, 07:53:43 PMP
Maurice,
Problem is that's not what LM is interested in doing and it's not the market that is driving them. They can't market P3D like MS marketed FS X and that's in the license. MS would have to sell them the entire FS X package and I somehow doubt they have any interest in that at all.
Perhaps, but they don't really need to market it. Who is naive enough to believe that most P3d buyers are not using it for entertainment? In fact, I would venture to say that all or nearly all P3d users are ex MS simulator users who believe or desperately want to believe that P3d is the replacement for FSX.
Even if LM cannot or will not ever convert to 64 bits, there is a huge pool of FSX users hungry for some of the new goodies P3d offers and as long as LM continues to improve it and iron out the initial bugs, more & more FSX users will eventually switch and maybe even more will switch if it remains a 32 bit application since they will be able to keep using many of their existing addons which they could not do with a switch to a 64 bit application.
Anyway, this is all pure speculation at this time. LM will do whatever they can do to increase their market share otherwise, why even bother developing p3d? I doubt that their really legal market is lucrative enough to justify the development costs and they need the existing pool of 'FS gamers' who also are great at finding all the bugs in their software without them paying for software testers ;D
Maurice
I agree with Maurice, LM would surely know that most of their market for P3D are FSX users, they are seriously active in the forum attending to bug fixes and update releases to the loyal base.
I must confess to being a little bemused as to why an aircraft manufacturer specialising in mult-multi-million dollar fighter aircraft would expend time and precious funds developing an old software platform for supposed "military" training, and as an aside attend judiciously to a hungry domestic flightsim market under the guise of "training". I would hazard there is a very big potentially cornered market in the domestic realm driving their bean counters and the Acadamic license is a simple way of getting around the fact they don't have full rights to the Entertainment license. Don't get me wrong, no complaints from me, seriously excited about the development however as Rhys pointed out, should they go 64bit, while great for the future of the core simulator, all current addons will be obsolete and it will put them behind the current dominator in the 64bit arena, X-plane.
Ok back to testing v2.0 (and the more I test the more I'm waiting patiently for v2.1 ::) )
Ken.
Quote1) Your visual system is about the only one I've seen so far that makes me (slightly) question my plans to use 3 really large HDTVs. Bravo on the visuals- looks really great.
Thanks Eric! I'm pretty proud of my system.
Yes I used the wrong word to describe the clouds BUT whatever they did in v2.0...they look the best Ive ever seen ;)
Frank, How is your visual system/projectors going?
Rob (737Nut) said it best, the best Sim would be a combination of P3D and XPlane.
The only reason I had to go back to FSX/P3D was for FTX/ORBX and complete hardware compatibility.
Nat
One of the misconceptions that we high end cockpit builders have is that there is a huge flight simulator market out there for companies to continue to develop this kind of software. Simply wrong, guys.
In order to make any real money in this market, you have to be able to sell hundreds and hundreds of thousands of copies to pay for the development costs. And to do that you need a huge distribution network that the likes of MS has. Yet they abandoned any future development of FS and got out of it altogether. Ever ask yourself, why?
While there are several reasons, one is the sales of FS products continued to drop. We, the high end people, always bought their new products but we probably account for about 5-10% of the total market. That's why nobody has stepped up from the 3rd party group to develop an entirely new flight simulator.....it's too costly and not enough profit to be made. The 3rd party group's sales continue to drop and one wonders just how long they can continue to provide their 3rd party add-ons for a 7 year old simulator.
LM stepped in and purchased limited rights to FS X. They did for a variety of reasons but not to replace FS X with their own product. Yes, they benefit from the die hard FS Xers who will purchase their product (me included) but our group is very, very small in the big picture of things.
In my business, I get to talk with many different people in the simulator business and believe me, what I am stating is not just my own personal opinion. It comes from speaking with different people. Many of the companies involved are turning their energy to the professional end of simulation where there is money to be made...and yes, X Plane is one of them.
I'm not trying to diminish the enthusiasm our group has in this arena as I am one of them who has been in this business for over 14 years. But there is a business reality here and it doesn't match what we hope will happen.
Well Harry, this may all be true but it still begs the question of why LM folks are dipping their toes in this market if there is little money to be made? And who is to say Microsoft will not decide to sell the whole entertainment license to raise some cash? Why hang on to something that has no future instead of getting as much as you can while you still can?
Whatever the reasons, I'm glad FSX or its 'replacement' is not totally dead as my current foray into XPlane is not looking very promising at all for many reasons which I will talk about soon.
Maurice
Quote from: Maurice on December 18, 2013, 09:04:08 AM
Well Harry, this may all be true but it still begs the question of why LM folks are dipping their toes in this market if there is little money to be made? And who is to say Microsoft will not decide to sell the whole entertainment license to raise some cash? Why hang on to something that has no future instead of getting as much as you can while you still can?
Whatever the reasons, I'm glad FSX or its 'replacement' is not totally dead as my current foray into XPlane is not looking very promising at all for many reasons which I will talk about soon.
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
I spoke with LM about a year ago and while I'm not at liberty to relate what was said, I can say that their purchase of FS X's ESP platform was not intended to replace FS X in the market place.
When it comes to markets though, I am going to ask the readers here to try and guess what kind of numbers are involved in 3rd party add-on sales. And use the "hay day" time period from around 2003-2005 when FS sales were at their peak.
1. Average number of total sales per year for new 3rd party products.
2. What number of sales was considered beyond expectations for any one product.
3. What kind of numbers ended up being a "blockbuster".
Of course, different products were better than others, with the heavy iron a/c being the best.
Interesting Harry, and your probably right, but if the numbers are poor for the now dead FS series, why have the third party developers been so reluctant to move to Xplane, a platform that is still moving Fwd?
Gary
Quote from: Garys on December 18, 2013, 12:15:35 PM
Interesting Harry, and your probably right, but if the numbers are poor for the now dead FS series, why have the third party developers been so reluctant to move to Xplane, a platform that is still moving Fwd?
Gary
The cost to do so and a very small market that would result in minimal if any profit. FS X has been kept alive by many people who have used their talents to tweak it for today's hardware advances. The 3rd party people know that the basic code hasn't and isn't going to change for it and can continue to make products a lot easier.
So far P3D's add ons are about 10% of what FS X's are.
Quote from: HarryZ on December 18, 2013, 10:39:39 AM
Hi Maurice,
I spoke with LM about a year ago and while I'm not at liberty to relate what was said, I can say that their purchase of FS X's ESP platform was not intended to replace FS X in the market place.
Do you really think they would have told any 'outsider' what their true plans are? My guess would be they would only repeat their corporate position that matches their agreement with Microsoft. I know I am being a tad cynical here but I do not believe what corporate honchos say even when they face a judicial enquiry. What really goes on behind closed doors is for them to know and for us to speculate about and most likely not even be close to what is really going on.
And does it really matter if you call P3d an FSX replacement or a brand new application that does mostly what FSX used to do? :) . If it looks like FSX, behaves like FSX, amuses you like FSX or makes you despair like FSX, it may not be FSX's direct sibling, but it sure carries most of its genes ;D
And as far as your questions re. number of addons sales, Microsoft never really cared how many addons would be sold. They only cared about how many flight simulators they would sell and they were only too happy about the addons in so far as they improved their product and generated mores sales for them.
So why couldn't LM do the same? Bottom line, none of us really know LM plans and FSX users are hoping for salvation while XPlane users sit there smugly and just gloat about the whole thing and who can blame them? ;D
Maurice
QuoteDo you really think they would have told any 'outsider' what their true plans are? My guess would be they would only repeat their corporate position that matches their agreement with Microsoft. I know I am being a tad cynical here but I do not believe what corporate honchos say even when they face a judicial enquiry. What really goes on behind closed doors is for them to know and for us to speculate about and most likely not even be close to what is really going on.
Well, I guess it depends on who you talk with and their level of trust with you during the conversation. Of course they are not going to tell you their inside corporate secrets. The only thing I will say is that unless the agreement between MS and LM changes drastically, LM will not be marketing P3D as a FS substitute.
QuoteAnd as far as your questions re. number of addons sales, Microsoft never really cared how many addons would be sold. They only cared about how many flight simulators they would sell and they were only too happy about the addons in so far as they improved their product and generated mores sales for them.
Of course MS didn't care about 3rd party sales although they did offer a fair amount of co-operation with those developers. But that wasn't my point. Those numbers indicate what a tiny market the high end flight simulator group really is and why nobody has come up with a replacement for FS X. ...there just isn't any money in it.
QuoteSo why couldn't LM do the same? Bottom line, none of us really know LM plans and FSX users are hoping for salvation while XPlane users sit there smugly and just gloat about the whole thing and who can blame them? ;D
Simple...no money to be made. LM can probably make enough to pay for the costs of what they bought while providing their customers a very inexpensive training platform. They walk a tight line with their contract with MS. And X Plane's product for gamers hasn't progressed as much as many had thought it would with FS X gone. Laminar is focusing on the professional end of things and the 3rd party group isn't rushing to do add-ons for X Plane due to cost among other reasons.
When MS dumped the Aces group, I and many others thought that someone would come forth and develop a brand new simulator and market it like MS did with FS X. Hasn't happened and it won't....too costly for much too small a market. And the sales numbers are dropping every year...sigh!
Cheer up Harry! There's always train simulator to fall back on if flight sims die ;D
Maurice
Gentlemen,
I remember a similar thread back when LM brought out P3D.
I'll repeat what I said back then, as it still appears to hold true. LM never had an interest in replacing FSX, and they still do not. P3D is a drop in the bucket for LM. To understand what they are doing, you only need to understand how the US Military contract world works, know some of the contracts LM and its subs currently service, and understand how the US Military selects and trains it's pilots. Then take a look at the licensing system they have put in place, and the changes they have implemented and what they support.
P3D is NOT the next big sim. LM is not in the commercial and entertainment software business. There is no money in it. Look around. I don't see the FDS, CP Flight, Prosim, Simworld, Sismo, Aerosoft, PFPX, PMDG etc etc folks driving Porsche and Ferrari. All these guys do what they do for the love of the hobby and the people in it (and some have a misguided notion that they'll get rich). Just like MS did with the FS franchise. LM does not.
Put this into perspective. LM deals in contracts in excess of tens and hundreds of Million dollars. If they need to buy out the rights to P3D to support one of their programs, or to ensure third party development to support one of their programs... do you think it actually registers on the bottom line? Count how many simmers you know, and then apply the cost of one or two licenses of P3D to each. What are the total sales? At the end of the day, they probably pay more in annual salaries to the team that supports P3D than they pull in from our small community in licenses.
While I would love to see P3D take off, or ACES to come back together, the real truth of the matter is, if we expect to keep simming far into the future, we will need to jump on the Austin Meyers train, or look at other options like DCS.
:2cw:
Quote from: Maurice on December 19, 2013, 11:55:37 AM
Cheer up Harry! There's always train simulator to fall back on if flight sims die ;D
Maurice
Geez Maurice, if flight sims die so does my business :'(
And I know long haul flights can be boring but can you imagine running a train simulator!!??
QuoteWhile I would love to see P3D take off, or ACES to come back together, the real truth of the matter is, if we expect to keep simming far into the future, we will need to jump on the Austin Meyers train, or look at other options like DCS.
:2cw:
Some of the people in the add on business had that thought as well as did the flt sim community. But like I said earlier, I heard that Austin is placing most of his eggs in the professional sim basket of things and not too interested in the gaming aspect of X Plane. Time will tell.
And in the world of 3rd party add-on companies....I'm thinking that unless some amalgamations take place, there's not much of a chance all those players can survive on their own.
The huge difference between the others and X-Plane is that Austin built in a huge ability for developers to create more for it with open api's, planemaker, and such and there is a huge shareware/freeware community around it that is growing all the time. Look at all the new airports in the latest build that juat came out. It is growing and growing and growing. It can totally take advantage of hardware and increases in technology where others cant. Anyone can say what they will but from my little vantage point I think X-Plane is the best future for our hobby.
Scott
Happy Holydays to everyone.
Coming from FS2004, PMDG ,PM paradigm, I have recently made the jump
from it to Sim-Avionics, XPUIPC and X Plane.
I tried to switch a couple of years ago with X Plane9 and XPUIPC but I felt that
the combination was not quite ready for prime time.
X Plane 10 has greatly improved and XPUIPC 2.0 is a significant leap forward.
I have run FSX alongside with X Plane and FSX has not impressed me much. Quite frankly,
I would go back to FS2004 for its better stability. I was hoping it to perform better in an i7 3.5 GHtz and 32 Gigs of RAM with a fast adapter with 4 Gigs on board. Not so.
It seems to me that from the software engineering point of view, that X Plane is probably better designed. The fact that it is a multiplataform software is a favorable indicator. FSX is a fork of FS2004 which is is also a baby of the original MSFS and which in turn, got a lot of code from The SubLogic group which they bought, remember ATP?. If they used their codebase or not, it's anybody's guess. It is like the story of DOS -> Win95 -> WinXP - >NT -> Vista -> 7 -> 8. A lot of baggage code for backwards compatibility. Hell, I wish all the software ran on Linux, but again it is all about economics. Average Joe Sixpack ( don't get me wrong, I love beer, it's just an expression ) will not run their games in a Linux Box not because is difficult but because they don't know any better.
I am still having a few quirks with X Plane, but in my opinion it is still ahead.
Prepar-3D may be a guessing game. X Plane probably not. If MS pulled the plug with no sorrows on FS, then LM would do it in heartbeat if it needed be. Big corporations operate in a different realm. So yes, I agree with FSaviator, X pPlane is probably the way to go.
I know that a lot of people have invested time and effort in FS, but the Universe is moving away from the Singularity, at least for now :).
JF
Quote from: fsaviator on December 19, 2013, 02:12:30 PM
Gentlemen,
I remember a similar thread when LM brought out P3D
And yet, they are still around developing it and they appear to be actively engaging in discussions with various partners. Makes you wonder why if it is really an insignificant market. Don't they have better things to occupy their designers?
Simmers may not be their prime directive but they sure seem to be interested in their input, at least for the time being.
As for XPlane, I installed it and had high hopes a few days ago. But after fighting with it for several days, I must say, I positively hate it for many reasons. There is no way this will be my new sim in its present form. Different strokes for different folks. :)
Maurice
QuoteAnd yet, they are still around developing it and they appear to be actively engaging in discussions with various partners. Makes you wonder why if it is really an insignificant market. Don't they have better things to occupy their designers?
Developing it in their time and within their own purpose. The hobby simulator market has little to do with what LM is doing. Yes they are improving P3D but I would imagine for their training plans and likely other reasons we don't know about. LM has a multi billion dollar operation and P3D probably flys under the radar within the company. When I was at ITSEC, I asked a few of their reps about it and I got nothing but blank stares. My contact wasn't there and unfortunately I was unable to update any info with that person.
As long as LM continue to develop and iron out the legacy bugs like the microstutter bug that they found yesterday, we will all benefit. I think alot of aviation enthusiasts who were yet to take up the hobby got turned off by the extremely poor performance of FSX. The problem with that though as you mentioned earlier is FSX has been out for 7 years, The old timers already have numerous addons and many of us are now reluctant or at least more selective than we once were in buying more, so its only natural unfortunately that sales in that area will decline. Hopefully with the progress being made we will start to see some real performance improvements which will get some excitement into the community and back up and buying again for the new platform.
Gary
Getting back on track...
I recently compared 5760x1080 on one computer/multi-comp with P3Dv2 and then FSX:
FSX wiped P3D off the floor as far as performance goes on one PC @5760x1080...
P3D looked and performed better then FSX on a mutli-comp/Wideview setup.
So for now, depending on your system, I believe there two options.
Nat
(i73770K's / GTX660Ti's)
Quote from: Nat Crea on December 20, 2013, 04:45:50 AM
Getting back on track...
FSX wiped P3D off the floor as far as performance goes on one PC @5760x1080...
P3D looked and performed better then FSX on a mutli-comp/Wideview setup.
So for now, depending on your system, I believe there two options.
Nat
(i73770K's / GTX660Ti's)
This actually makes perfect sense. FSX never benefitted from more powerful video cards as it is CPU bound. With P3d, my CPU utilization took a real dip while the GPU utilization is almost pegged at almost 100% most of the time. With a single monitor, P3d wins and with multiple monitors, FSX is better but performance wise only. Seems very odd but that is my experience.
So, with multiple PCs sharing the graphics load, it's obvious performance should be much improved in P3d and certainly in FSX and XP as well. Nothing really new here...throw enough horsepower in and you can have the same visuals as a level D simulator. :)
Maurice
Interesting comments Maurice... As they say, "Add enough power, and you can even make a brick fly!" ;D
Clearly, entering the Prepar3d and XPlane waters is not for everyone. That is... not without getting burned a few times along the way to creating a complex Sim. I have yet to see a post where "everything" is working correctly with any Sim. I think I'll wait till next year before considering Prepar3d or XPlane.
That said, My dual computer FSX/Sim-Avionics 3-monitor setup seems to be fairly stable if I always reboot after every flight, and always begin from a Cold & Dark configuration - works every time. By contrast, if I try to do multiple back-to-back flights, the results are questionable with FSX sometimes displaying strange behavior - like turbulence when the weather model (ASNext) is set for no turbulence.
Sims are a bit like the mileage sticker on a new car... "Your mileage may vary." :)
Mike
Quote from: XOrionFE on December 19, 2013, 02:50:19 PM
The huge difference between the others and X-Plane is that Austin built in a huge ability for developers to create more for it with open api's, planemaker, and such and there is a huge shareware/freeware community around it that is growing all the time. Look at all the new airports in the latest build that juat came out. It is growing and growing and growing. It can totally take advantage of hardware and increases in technology where others cant. Anyone can say what they will but from my little vantage point I think X-Plane is the best future for our hobby.
Scott
Totally agree, I have 90% of my addon scenery in xplane is freeware! I could show you freeware sceneries ORBX could only dream of!
Everyone should stop speculating and just go and buy xplane!! :)
Quote from: rhysb on December 20, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
Everyone should stop speculating and just go and buy xplane!! :)
I did, and now I know for sure that XP runs like crap in my system. But at least I know and can stop wondering whether I was missing some great things or not. ;D
Maurice
Quote from: Maurice on December 20, 2013, 02:27:28 PM
Quote from: rhysb on December 20, 2013, 12:27:53 PM
Everyone should stop speculating and just go and buy xplane!! :)
I did, and now I know for sure that XP runs like crap in my system. But at least I know and can stop wondering whether I was missing some great things or not. ;D
Maurice
It would be interesting to take a look at your rendering settings Maurice. I am happy to if you get it back running, can even jump in over team viewer. Some of the settings can have a huge impact but not necessary for most stuff. I do run it and enjoy it on my multipit with 3 27 " 1080p computers but I dial a few things down a bit. Still looks great and frame rates typically above 20 which is fine.
Scott
Quote from: XOrionFE on December 20, 2013, 02:32:08 PM
It would be interesting to take a look at your rendering settings Maurice. I am happy to if you get it back running, can even jump in over team viewer. Some of the settings can have a huge impact but not necessary for most stuff. I do run it and enjoy it on my multipit with 3 27 " 1080p computers but I dial a few things down a bit. Still looks great and frame rates typically above 20 which is fine.
Scott
Sure, I'm game. But this will have to wait until the new year and by then as well, I will hopefully have received the additional memory I ordered.
Thanks,
Maurice
The more I read about incompatibility issues with P3D v2 and various workarounds the more my head spins. As much as I am tempted to work on an instance of this beast on my sim the more I read out there on various forums the more I think I will bin it for now. I also own just about every region of Orbx an I guess most wont work with Prepar3d and will need new installers. Does this mean paying for these all over again? And no way I am keeping a whole install of FSXn a drive just so P3D can look at it for files. oh my gosh....and this is a step forward?
Scott
Quote from: XOrionFE on December 21, 2013, 05:50:22 AM
The more I read about incompatibility issues with P3D v2 and various workarounds the more my head spins. As much as I am tempted to work on an instance of this beast on my sim the more I read out there on various forums the more I think I will bin it for now. I also own just about every region of Orbx an I guess most wont work with Prepar3d and will need new installers. Does this mean paying for these all over again? And no way I am keeping a whole install of FSXn a drive just so P3D can look at it for files. oh my gosh....and this is a step forward?
Scott
Scott,
These very issues are what is making a lot of people sit back and wait (3rd party developers as well) before taking the leap and changing their main direction. In my case, after using FS X for years and all the add-ons, I just can't go ahead with P3D or X Plane and end up suffering the time it would take to get everything compatible again.
Quote from: HarryZ on December 21, 2013, 06:57:32 AM
Quote from: XOrionFE on December 21, 2013, 05:50:22 AM
The more I read about incompatibility issues with P3D v2 and various workarounds the more my head spins. As much as I am tempted to work on an instance of this beast on my sim the more I read out there on various forums the more I think I will bin it for now. I also own just about every region of Orbx an I guess most wont work with Prepar3d and will need new installers. Does this mean paying for these all over again? And no way I am keeping a whole install of FSXn a drive just so P3D can look at it for files. oh my gosh....and this is a step forward?
Scott
Scott,
These very issues are what is making a lot of people sit back and wait (3rd party developers as well) before taking the leap and changing their main direction. In my case, after using FS X for years and all the add-ons, I just can't go ahead with P3D or X Plane and end up suffering the time it would take to get everything compatible again.
I'm with you Harry. Not worth it yet.
Scott
I've got P3d running nicely as a client with FSX as the server. Wideview's working great too but after having a think about all the work involved to get up to speed I think P3D will go onto the laptop for the time being. There's just too much to install onto five pc's plus the time involved trouble shooting when the difference between FSX and P3D is still relatively small (in my opinion).
Rhys keeps nagging me to get onboard with XP and I must admit I'm tempted after seeing the great freeware stuff he's installed, looks great. Again, running and installing everything on five pc's takes it's toll, but I have to agree with him and others that XP is the future.
Good luck to those out there brave enough to take the plunge : )
Quote from: markfire on December 21, 2013, 09:27:53 AM
Rhys keeps nagging me to get onboard with XP and I must admit I'm tempted after seeing the great freeware stuff he's installed, looks great.
It's just a conspiracy by Rhys, Scott and Mike L. among others to hook more users and sell more copies of XP so that more vendors will produce more addons for XP. ;D
Maurice
Even though some worked, I never even considered installing fs9 addons into FSX. Same goes here. Just isn't smart. We are only 4 weeks out from release. FSX 2 patches before it could even run decently on high end computers. We all remember what was said about it back then. The native installers will come. Orbx has already set out a free roadmap. Sit back relax and enjoy FSX/Xplane for now . Its not going to be all doom and gloom like most of forums would have us believe.
Gary
@maurice
Ha ha. Yes I think you're right, it's a XP conspiracy! : )
Regarding P3D. I was one of the more positive contribitors in the forums and was expecting more from LM, not a buggy release! I guess by the time the first patch hits the streets a lot of potential users will have binned or put out to pasture V2.
Horses for courses I guess!
:2cw:
I installed P3DV2 and I must say, that DX11 is a nice treat, it seems to run quite well compared to my FSX. I have FTX Global 1.2 installed and the latest FSUIPC. Mindstar's G1000 works perfectly too, although I had to use the FSXtoP3D installer to get it to install it as their installer isn't for V2.
I love the volumetric clouds and the shadows/HDR etc, it's finally nice to have them without taxing my CPU to the balls and the sim is actually starting to use my GPU.
I know you guys are running multi PC's etc and have a lot of setting up to do if you were to make the move to P3DV2, but if I were in your shoes, I probably stick at what I have, and wait for the 64bit version and then put in the hours and headaches of migrating.
Seeming FSX is dead in the water(Regarding patches, upgrades) hence why I decided to go with P3D and I am looking forward to the 64bit version.
X-Plane is a great simulator no doubt, but regarding my pit, I am better off with P3D as my avionics is based on these simulators and it comes with TV remote support, skype support and if I ever get stuck or need to report a little bug or two.
Do you need wideview for P3d V2 to have 5 different outside views ?
Phil
QuoteDo you need wideview for P3d V2 to have 5 different outside views ?
Phil
Phil If you tried 5 views from ONE computer in v2, you might as well watch the grass grow...
WideView is for running multiple view on multiple computers.
Nat
Yes i know what wideview does but if you have 5 pc's for 5 otside views do you still need wideview to set it up. Xplane does not need wideview.
Phil
QuoteYes i know what wideview does but if you have 5 pc's for 5 otside views do you still need wideview to set it up....
Yes...(but you already knew that???)
Nat
Sorry i mean do you need wideview for P3dv2 to have 5 different outside views with 5 pc's.
Phil
Phil
If you use the P3D built in multiple view facility (multi-channel), then the answer is no you don't need wideview, but its tricky to setup and i don't think it works as well as wideview, so i guess the answer is Yes : )
hope that clarifies things.
Mark