NTHUSIM Users

[blueskydriver]

For any of the NTHUSIM users, has anyone experienced screen jitter/jumping when the single line messages appear and close? For example, when opening or closing the main cockpit door, the projected screen images will jitter/jump around...This happens in full screen mode. In window mode the single line messages will look irregular and somewhat distorted for the brief moment.

Turning off NTHUSIM and just looking at the projected images without it, there is no jitter/jumping upon single line messages appearing. Had the most updated NTHUSIM and even reverted back to previous version, but still the problem remains.

If you have seen this and resolved it, please post. Or, if someone really knows how to remove single line messages in FSX, post that. As of right now, there is no true way to do it. FSUIPC doesn't remove them, nor does Text_Scroll=0 (FSX.cfg).

Finally, NTHUSIM forums has nothing on this issue...

BSD

[XOrionFE]

I have not seen or had that problem with my setup but cannot tell you why.   Must be something isolated to your setup.   Maybe your graphics card settings or something.   

Scott

[Kennair]

Hi BSD, haven't noticed this issue myself during testing, however I don't use the line messages for general flight.  As Scott suggests it could be your video card or drivers, try updating.  Also have you tried updating Nthusim?  They have a new release out.

Ken.

[blueskydriver]

Scott and Ken,

Yes, tried updating NTHUSIM, but no difference. The odd thing is, it just started two days ago. Nothing has been changed in drivers or video card status. Unless a windows update changed something...

Plan is too check all video settings tonight to make sure everything matches with NTHUSIM, Matrox TH2GO, and FSX, as well as the projectors.

Thanks so much for your help.

[blueskydriver]

OKay, went through some things and realized the issue that Maurice found out, and after going back to follow his guide, the matter of not using the right .FLT file was one problem.

The next problem (after getting the right .FLT file loaded) is that three things happen:

1. After starting NTHUSIM first and then starting FSX, the view shown is the correct images without borders in window mode, but the text_line has a weird image slightly above it. However, the screen does not jump or flick (meaning it looks like the entire projected image is squeezing or its trying to resize itself).

2. If Alt-Enter is used, the image will go to full screen, and that is where the flicking starts when using the text_line.

3. If Alt-Enter is used again, the window mode comes back but the border is now turned on, and the FSX images all look low in anti-aliasing (like it's turned off). Plus, the jumping still occurs on using text_line (remember text_line appears when the door is opened or closed). If you go back to full screen mode, the anti-aliasing looks fine, but still have the jumping.

Tried installing the lastest NTHUSIM and even reinstalling it from the beginning, no change. Changed all settings in FSX, Matrox TH2GO, and video card...no change. The only way this problem stops is when NTHUSIM is turned off, but of course no corrected images.

This is one of those "pull out remaining hair from head and bang forehead on Glareshield"!

What do you guys get after changing modes with Alt-Enter? Just to answer the question, why would this be needed? Well, if you need to leave FSX and goto to the desktop to start an add-on like Aivlasoft EFB or something else.

Thank you.

[XOrionFE]

Are you running FSX?  Is it in DX10 or DX9 (I dont run DX10).   The problems you are describing sound like problems I used to have with TH2GO when it didnt like the video mode I was running in.   What resolution are you using on the projectors?  What is your full screen resolution within FSX set to?   Have you tweaked your NVidia video settings according to Nick Needham tweaks?    The other think is that it was pointed out by another member that you need to use the short cable that came with your TH2GO to connect it to the computer.   Just making sure you are doing that and haven't put an extension in its place.

Scott

[Maurice]

What do you guys get after changing modes with Alt-Enter? Just to answer the question, why would this be needed? Well, if you need to leave FSX and goto to the desktop to start an add-on like Aivlasoft EFB or something else.

Thank you.

I have a bit of trouble understanding your procedure. You say you start Nthusim and then FSX and FSX starts in Window mode. What I do is start FSX by clicking on a saved .FLT file that I saved in full screen mode. So when I click on the .FLT file, FSX will also start in full screen mode.

Then if you need to load something, try doing it without hitting Alt-Enter & going to window mode first. Instead, try clicking on the Window key in your keyboard. FSX should minimize, then load whatever it is you want to load and then click on the minimized FSX icon on the Task bar. Most if not all of the time (in my experience), FSX will not come back until you hit the Enter key as well after clicking on the minimized icon.

So you can go back & forth from minimized to full screen without ever going to window mode. Now, I have no idea if that will cure your flickering problems but that's one thing to try anyway.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Wait a second, don't you start the NTHUSIM program and it's running in the background or minimized, and then start the FSX program?

To clarify, we start the NTHSUIM, then FSX, which goes to the window to choose aircraft, time of day, location, etc; however, we just use load button, and load the saved FLT file. Then wait till FSX FLT file location loads up.

Once it loads, the projected image is the saved locationin window mode, without borders (like window mode without the big blue border around the entire FSX window). If we do Alt-Enter, it goes to full screen mode, if we do Alt-Enter again, it goes back to window mode, but the blue border is around the window, unlike when we first started.

The thing is we never get back to the borderless window mode using Alt-Enter or any other way except reloading the saved Flt file.

So, when we first start the text_line does not causing jumping, but it has some weird artifacts above it, across the entire green line. In full screen, the jumping occurs with the text_line, as well as it does when we go back to the now, blue border window mode. And, it is this window mode the antialising is not working right.

[Maurice]

Wait a second, don't you start the NTHUSIM program and it's running in the background or minimized, and then start the FSX program?

To clarify, we start the NTHSUIM, then FSX, which goes to the window to choose aircraft, time of day, location, etc; however, we just use load button, and load the saved FLT file. Then wait till FSX FLT file location loads up.

No, that's not the way I do it. Your way should work too but since I always use the same aircraft I do not need to start FSX the way you do it. I just double click directly on a saved flight (.flt file) that I had previously saved while in full screen mode and the flight opens in full screen mode with no other questions to answer. I can change things like weather etc while in full screen mode. In other words, I never go to window mode anymore.

As I said, no idea if this would help you but just try it and see.

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

I do similiar to Maurice only i have made the correct .flt file just be the default flight so I open FSX normally but it automatically goes to the default flight.    That said, I can Alt-Ent between windowed and full screen mode as much as I want without any problems.   If I go to windowed mode and then minimize fsx so I can do something on the desktop I usually have to just Alt-Ent again to go back in and into full screen mode.    Again, no issues.   The only time I ever had any issues with wierd text lines or any other graphics anomolies was when I had something messed up in the video card such as resolutioni, graphics card settings, or wrong frequency for monitor/projector.

Scott

[Maurice]

I do similiar to Maurice only i have made the correct .flt file just be the default flight so I open FSX normally but it automatically goes to the default flight.    Scott

I almost always start in a different place, so I don't want to start any default flight and then have to load another one. So I have a shortcut to the folder where all the flights (FLT files) are saved and I then click on whatever flight I want & I'm off with one click. That's the lazy man's way 

But if I need to switch to window mode (almost never need to), I can also switch back & forth with Alt-Enter with no problems at all

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Okay, understand what you're doing as far as the .FLT and that is certainly the easy way or lazy way...

Scott you raised a point and it sound like this could have something to do with it. You have the Mitsubshi EW230Ust as we do, so what settings are you using exactly?

Windows 7 setting is:3840x800
Matrox setting is: 3840x800
Projector set for:1280x800 at 16x9

However, thinking the Windows 7 setting is supposed to be: 1280x800 and it will show only one display in the control panel-display window.

What is your setting in FSX?

Please post yours.

[Maurice]

so what settings are you using exactly?

Windows 7 setting is:3840x800
Matrox setting is: 3840x800
Projector set for:1280x800 at 16x9

However, thinking the Windows 7 setting is supposed to be: 1280x800 and it will show only one display in the control panel-display window.

What is your setting in FSX?

Please post yours.

My settings are the same as yours.

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

Mine are the same.   In FSX I also have it matched to the Matrox

[blueskydriver]

So, for the Windows OS-control panel-display you have 3840x800 or the 1280x800 (just to verify since mentioning that change).

[blueskydriver]

Disregard last question, it has to be 3840x800. However, if the projectors have 16x9 and the Matrox says 3840x800 is 16x10, how does factor in to the selection you use for the projectors Scott? Are you using Auto, Full, Real, or 16x9.

Also, which version of GXM for Matrox is correct for Windows7? I am at 2.1.0.5, so what is anyone else using?

Edit: Okay, uninstalled NTHUSIM again and reinstalled version 2.4.1.5 and still get this. For sure, it has to be this because when the Text_Line appears the non-optimized view is what flicks up, and then back to the optimized or corrected view... Sending email to NTHUSIM folks.

The one thing noticed is when NTHUSIM is uninstalled and reinstalled, the config file is not getting deleted. After the reinstall, went to the tools and config buttons to check things, and everything was the same as before (all the control points were the same). So, not sure why this is, but it should have been deleted in the uninstall (start-program files-NTHSUIM-unistall.exe). Therefore, the config file must be corrupted and is not getting deleted properly.

[blueskydriver]

Well, redid the config file in NTHUSIM and that didnt change anything. Either the FSX files are screwed up or it's total user stupidity!

No matter what the program is not working right, so I need a couple of more answers from you guys.

1. After you start NTHUSIM, FSX and Arrive at the premade Flt file location, is your screens in Full Screen mode at that point or not. If yes, what exactly happens when you hit Shift-E? Do you see the green bar and the red text with either Main Door Opening/Closing, and Exit is Open and Exit is Closed?

2. If you see the green bar normally, then what happens if you goto window mode and do the same? I know NTHUSIM is meant for Full Screen Mode, but I need to know what happens while you're there, does the picture look like antialias is missing, and when you go back to Full Screen does everything look like is was before going to Window Mode?

3. Here is NTHUSIM question. What happens when you you first start NTHUSIM? Is it minimized? So, you goto the task bar to bring it back up maximized, and then in  the NTHUSIM control window (prior to starting FSX), you click the config button. Then, you would see your grid, and you normally would press S to save it...what happens after saving it? Are you still in the grid or back to the NTHUSIM control window?

If you're still in the grid, what key(s) do you use to go back to the control window? Is it ESC key or something else?

4. Scott for the projectors, are you seeing Projectors Blue Screens that tell you which mode you're in when switching between the desktop and FSX starting, then if you come back to the desktop you see the same blue screens again telling you want mode you're going into? That is what we see here...everytime, it's like flipping back and forth through it.

Finally, feeling Maurice's one time pain of just wanting to quit this all together, after three nights of 8-10 hours each, and still no resolve! Especially, over one little thing like this...

[XOrionFE]

I will have to fire it up tommorrow or Sunday to go through these and see what I have.   I should have answers before the end of the weekend.

Scott

[NAX228]

And removing the textline is not an option? (...as real as it gets cough cough..)
There is a mod for the .cfg:

HideInfoText=1

But maybe not what youre looking for...

[blueskydriver]

HideInfoText would be awesome because I don't need the green line/info anyway, but does it work? When you say .cfg, which one? FSX.cfg, Aircraft.cfg, Panel.cfg, and Go on vacation.cfg (that last one is for us...lol).

Seriously, if that works, it'll be great!

[XOrionFE]

Now that I think of it I think I did that Hide on mine.   It was in the Nick Needham tweaks for Windows7 and FSX.   

[blueskydriver]

The insanity continues... Okay, tried the HideInfoText and remebered that this is to hide the info for Pause, Brakes (when applied) or other text infos that normally appear at the bottom of the screen.

The Main Exit door (green bar at the top with red text) is actually a window. If you right mouse click on it when you see it and select undock; it will turn into an undocked window. At this point, it will be spanning across all three screens (meaning projectors). So, resizing it to a small bar, and then placing it on the lower left. In full screen it will be the same small bar without it's window border.

In any case, it makes no difference what we have done to get rid of this problem, it still exist. With NTHUSIM running, the flickering (on-off-on-off-on) still happens when hitting Shift-e. With NTHUSIM off the screens are distorted, but that green bar does not cause any problems.

Finally, even after the uninstall and reinstalls of NTHUSIM, there has to be something not deleted, and now it is corrupted. To verify this, once someone else with NTHUSIM does the Shift-e to see what happens; as well as, going from full screen to window, and then back to full screen. If no one else has these problems, then that should narrow it down...

[blueskydriver]

Can someone verify what happens after you bring up the config in NTHUSIM (the grid) and press S to save. Does it or is it supposed to minimize at this point?

Because this is confusing; if the grid does not go back to the NTHUSIM program window and minimize, you would not start FSX from the grid lines screen.

In our case the s key does not show an effect after pressing it nor does the NTHUSIM program reappear or a minimize occurs. It just stays at the grid lines...

[blueskydriver]

Yes, we keep replying to ourselves here...

Here is the SitRep: Did all the necessary things to fix this; updated GTX295 card, checked Direct X for DX11 (already done), updated Matrox GXM software, and tripled checked everything. Even redid the .FLT file and really looked hard at Maurice's tutorial, Ken's tutorial and Ivar's tutorial. Here is what we found out:

1. As Ivar shows in his tutorial that the 4 windows in the FLT file are window 1 for the background, bottom layer #3, in which he set to a top-down view; Window 2 for left view, layer 0; Window 3 for center view, layer 1; and Window 4 for right view, layer 2.

2. With NTHUSIM running version 2.4 (same with all versions, we did this for every version listed...really!) and FSX running, the text_line (main door opening, closing, opened, closed, any multiplayer connect or disconnects, and other messages that use the text_scroll or text_line method are all a part of a pop-up window that is directly tied to the Window 1, Layer 3 (mainly layer 3), the background images.

3. When a message is to appear, it will become layer 0 for the amount of time it needs to show the message and then disappear. In other words, it will pop-up over that layer 0 of window 2, left view.

4. For some reason, NTHUSIM is seeing this as a window mode pop-up, in which case it tries to switch the mode from on-off. If this doesn't sound like it makes sense; well it doesn't, but since NTHUSIM is designed to work in Full Screen mode and not Window Mode, that "might" be the problem.

5. The way too work around this and similar to what Ivar says about using AivlaSoft's EFB, it must be tied to the background layer, 3 (or bottom layer). So, when you first request it too appear by using Shift-E, use the right mouse click button (you have to be fast here with the right click) and click the green bar with red text. Now, in the list select undock.

6. The green bar is now in window mode, but stretched across all screens. Re-size the window in the normal manner and place it on the lower left (or where ever). NOTE: Here is the dead give away that this has something to with NTHUSIM when you re-size this green bar window, you must use the white mouse pointer. Normally you use the red mouse pointer with FSX because it is a correction mouse pointer from NTHUSIM, but the red will not change this window...

7. Here is the next important part; go to the fsx menu line above (ALT key) then select Views and down at the bottom you should see Cockpit 00, Cockpit 01, Cockpit 02, and Cockpit 03. These directly correspond to the windows 1-4, but not the layer numbers. So, select Cockpit 00, which is the bottom layer of the opened views. This will tie the green bar window back to that bottom layer 3 (or the background layer). This is what Ivar was talking about when it came to FSX and EFB. This is the way to make sure the bottom layer is active; it's the same way you did it in the FLT file, but you typed Active=True for the bottom layer, window 1.

Finally, if you for some reason click on one of the front layers in FSX while doing other things, you use the same method of just going to views, Cockpit 00 to go back to having the background as active. Should it matter about which layer is active? Well, according to others, the frame rates change depending on which layer is active, thus this will put you on the background layer.

Here is a question too ponder, what about making a custom camera definition GUI that is the full size like the background needs to be, but just make it a black image/color instead of using cockpit view or top-down? Wouldn't that reduce resources being used and increase the frame hit since no real graphics are being rendered, so to speak, because it would be black (not 0000 black, but 1 or 2 color values from complete black)?

Scott, I just noticed you signed in (5:30am CST). Really appreciate if you can check things out on your system. If you try some of these things, please post to what happens...

[Maurice]

Can someone verify what happens after you bring up the config in NTHUSIM (the grid) and press S to save. Does it or is it supposed to minimize at this point?

No, it stays the same. A green message pops up & says Configuration saved

Because this is confusing; if the grid does not go back to the NTHUSIM program window and minimize, you would not start FSX from the grid lines screen.

Why is this confusing? All you need to do is save the configuration, hit escape to get out of the grid and start FSX. You don't even need to minimize Nthusim but you can if you want to (no difference).Once the configuration is saved you don't need to do that again unless you want to align the grid again

In our case the s key does not show an effect after pressing it nor does the NTHUSIM program reappear or a minimize occurs. It just stays at the grid lines...

As it should