NTHUSIM Users

[Maurice]

Here is a question too ponder, what about making a custom camera definition GUI that is the full size like the background needs to be, but just make it a black image/color instead of using cockpit view or top-down? Wouldn't that reduce resources being used and increase the frame hit since no real graphics are being rendered, so to speak, because it would be black (not 0000 black, but 1 or 2 color values from complete black)?

Total waste of time to try that. The maximized window in the background barely use any system resources if you point it to the sky with a 512 magnification. That is now a blue image & no different than having a black image.

If you don't believe that, try this. Kill the center undocked window and let the background maximized window take its place. On the center (background) window, select a cockpit view at the same magnification than the 2 side views. Effectively then, you have 3 views instead of 4. Sounds great except that I tried it and it made no difference at all in the frame rate, so the 4th hidden window is totally irrelevant as far as FPS are concerned. I really expected a sizable FPS increase, but it did not happen for me.

A side benefit though (if you can call it a benefit) is that the center window is now the normal front FSX view and if you hit the S key, you get to see outside views projected on the front projector. When you go back to cockpit view in the front, everything is back to normal.

Now, in your case, since you are pre-occupied about opening & closing doors, maybe that would solve your problem since whatever shows up should show up in the center window I would think since that is/should be the main active window. Maybe that will work for any other messages that pop up as well.

Maurice

[Maurice]

Edit: Okay, uninstalled NTHUSIM again and reinstalled version 2.4.1.5 and still get this. For sure, it has to be this because when the Text_Line appears the non-optimized view is what flicks up, and then back to the optimized or corrected view... Sending email to NTHUSIM folks.

Don't bother doing that. I get the same momentary flickering if I hit Shift-E and I also tried it with the Warpalizer which is the Warping software Ivar is currently using. So this is a generic problem caused by any warping software. So I don't think there is a solution to this particular problem.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Can someone verify what happens after you bring up the config in NTHUSIM (the grid) and press S to save. Does it or is it supposed to minimize at this point?

No, it stays the same. A green message pops up & says Configuration saved

Because this is confusing; if the grid does not go back to the NTHUSIM program window and minimize, you would not start FSX from the grid lines screen.

Maurice,

Thank you for taking the time to look into this. Our replies are in between your responses...in green.

Why is this confusing? All you need to do is save the configuration, hit escape to get out of the grid and start FSX. You don't even need to minimize Nthusim but you can if you want to (no difference).

-It's supposed to show conguration saved after pressing "s" key. Where on the screen (location) are you seeing this, because we're not seeing it? That's what's causing he confusion, there is no indication of anything once the grid is done....

Once the configuration is saved you don't need to do that again unless you want to align the grid again

According to NTHUSIM instructions, after saving, close the program window, and then the next time you open the program it will be minimized and working. In our case, this does not happen as stated...causing more confusion

In our case the s key does not show an effect after pressing it nor does the NTHUSIM program reappear or a minimize occurs. It just stays at the grid lines...

As it should

It would be nice that after pressing another key to indicate your done with the grid, that you're then taken back to the program window, if it's supposed to be escape key, that's fine, but there is nothing for instructions on this. So, this is what causes more confusion. Plus, this would help signal where you are in relation to the grid and program.

[Maurice]

By the way BlueSkyDriver, do you have a real name. Just nicer to communicate with a 'real' person 

You are spending way too much time worrying whether Nthusim is working or not, If Nthusim is correcting the image, it is working, period.

When I hit S, a message pops up & quickly disappears and the grid remains on as it should since you may not be finished adjusting the grid yet. When you are totally done and you want to make sure the changes are saved if you not see the message (if you made any changes), just close Nthusim and you will be prompted to save the changes and in that case, you will have the opportunity to give it a name (that is in the manual I believe).

When you want to fly, start Nthusim and forget about it. As I said, it will work whether minimized or not.

Sorry but I don't know how I can make this any clearer.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Here is a question too ponder, what about making a custom camera definition GUI that is the full size like the background needs to be, but just make it a black image/color instead of using cockpit view or top-down? Wouldn't that reduce resources being used and increase the frame hit since no real graphics are being rendered, so to speak, because it would be black (not 0000 black, but 1 or 2 color values from complete black)?

Total waste of time to try that. The maximized window in the background barely use any system resources if you point it to the sky with a 512 magnification. That is now a blue image & no different than having a black image.

If you don't believe that, try this. Kill the center undocked window and let the background maximized window take its place. On the center (background) window, select a cockpit view at the same magnification than the 2 side views. Effectively then, you have 3 views instead of 4. Sounds great except that I tried it and it made no difference at all in the frame rate, so the 4th hidden window is totally irrelevant as far as FPS are concerned. I really expected a sizable FPS increase, but it did not happen for me.

A side benefit though (if you can call it a benefit) is that the center window is now the normal front FSX view and if you hit the S key, you get to see outside views projected on the front projector. When you go back to cockpit view in the front, everything is back to normal.

This all makes sense, so the background window is really not needed, but since FSX is attached to the background for other reasons, it's only logical to keep it.

Now, in your case, since you are pre-occupied about opening & closing doors, maybe that would solve your problem since whatever shows up should show up in the center window I would think since that is/should be the main active window. Maybe that will work for any other messages that pop up as well.

This whole doors thing is actually the end result of trying to use other programs with the warping software. Things like the EFB, FSPassengers (even for the sound effects), FS2Crew, or the constant pop messages of people joining the multiplayer sessions, so everytime someone joins the screen it's doing this flick thing alot...it's unbearable and useless then.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Edit: Okay, uninstalled NTHUSIM again and reinstalled version 2.4.1.5 and still get this. For sure, it has to be this because when the Text_Line appears the non-optimized view is what flicks up, and then back to the optimized or corrected view... Sending email to NTHUSIM folks.

Don't bother doing that. I get the same momentary flickering if I hit Shift-E and I also tried it with the Warpalizer which is the Warping software Ivar is currently using. So this is a generic problem caused by any warping software. So I don't think there is a solution to this particular problem.

This is the main reason about verifying things...you're getting the flick in NTHUSIM and say that it's the same in Warpalizer. Trying to determine if this is isolated to just our setup or other people like you or Scott. Troubleshooting this is much easier when more variables are known. Thank you for looking into it...

At least we won't spend more time trying to fix it now knowing it's an issue....uh..cough, cough...feature.

Thanks again.

BSD

[blueskydriver]

By the way BlueSkyDriver, do you have a real name. Just nicer to communicate with a 'real' person 

Check you're PM's

You are spending way too much time worrying whether Nthusim is working or not, If Nthusim is correcting the image, it is working, period.

You're right way too much time wasted, but if it's supposed to flick, it should be stated by NTHUSIM; otherwise, it appears as a problem or error to the first time user. By not seeing another setup, nor this being known, it just looks wrong when it happens

When I hit S, a message pops up & quickly disappears and the grid remains on as it should since you may not be finished adjusting the grid yet. When you are totally done and you want to make sure the changes are saved if you not see the message (if you made any changes), just close Nthusim and you will be prompted to save the changes and in that case, you will have the opportunity to give it a name (that is in the manual I believe).

Yes, this does happen when you close the program, but it's just the being left in the grid and asking "what do I do now?" There is no mention of escape key or any other key, so if escape key is used, could that be what is causing the flicking; that is the question we were asking ourselves, but you solved this for us (troubleshooting step):-) 

When you want to fly, start Nthusim and forget about it. As I said, it will work whether minimized or not.

Sorry but I don't know how I can make this any clearer.

Maurice

You made things much more clear for sure. The thing to take from this is, if we have any other programs that we like to start or run, it seems best to do it from an another attached monitor/display connected to the FSX computer. Thus, NTHUSIM/Warpalizer doesn't get fooled with once it's started.

[Maurice]

You made things much more clear for sure. The thing to take from this is, if we have any other programs that we like to start or run, it seems best to do it from an another attached monitor/display connected to the FSX computer. Thus, NTHUSIM/Warpalizer doesn't get fooled with once it's started.

Yes, that is one way although it's a bit tricky to setup the TripleHead with a separate monitor attached as well (at least it was for me). I had it that way for a while as well but I eventually removed the extra monitor.

But I'm still not sure why you are having problems going to windowed mode and back (assuming I understood you right). That definitely should work (if you have the licensed Nthusim version and not the demo version) & if you can go to window mode, then you can start other programs and then go back to full screen mode in FSX.

Or even simpler, hit the Window key as I mentioned and this will minimize FSX. When you are done loading whatever it is you need to load, click on the minimized icon (and hit the Enter key if FSX does not come back right away) and you will be back in full screen mode with the other programs running in the background.

That will not solve any problem with the flickering if a message pops up but at least you can load the programs.

Anyway, hope this helps,

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Hey NTHUSIM users,

Sent Andy at NTHUSIM an email over the weekend and he is onboard with this problem dealing with the flickering; he has read the posts within this thread.

Although, this might seem to be a small matter about the door opening/closing, but likely you've read thus far, and understand it's more than just that. It involves what happens when this grean bar window (call it GBW) appears, and if it's a dockable window or something from Windows and FSX working (or not working) together. If it's that, then IMO this would make sense, NTHUSIM is for FSX, not Windows, so the flicks would happen for those brief moments of this GBW appearing. Also, this happens with other aspects of the GBW; it does it with multiplayer and other pop-ups.

Maurice is seeing it, so Scott do you see this? Other NTHUSIM users please check this on your setups; therefore, Andy and crew can help fix this. The more we can show them, the easier and quicker it will be fixed.

Finally, we know Maurice you don't mind using the Windows key to go back and forth, since you like quick start icons so to speak. But, IMO, using Alt-Enter is so much easier; especially, for doing other things like dealing with FSUIPC, Add-ons or anything else dealing with the (Alt) menu bar in FSX. Even more so, if you had to go into FSUIPC make adjustments, then come back, but now NTHUSIM isn't working right. So, would you have to restart NTHUSIM everytime you make adjustments, because NTHUSIM is not coming back in right?

Honestly, we here at BSD really wish it to be an user error on our end, because it'll be easier to fix once discovered, and if it is our error than we really apologize now. However, at this point we don't know yet, but we're leaning more on it being something to do with NTHUSIM (and/or updates) and that of FSX. Maybe, something easily overlooked...?

One last thing, we're going to capture some video to post for Andy within the next day or two. If some of the other users can grab something quick of what you're seeing with the GBW and the Alt-Enter flicks, that would be awesome of you...

Thanks so much,

BSD team

[Maurice]

Finally, we know Maurice you don't mind using the Windows key to go back and forth, since you like quick start icons so to speak. But, IMO, using Alt-Enter is so much easier; especially, for doing other things like dealing with FSUIPC, Add-ons or anything else dealing with the (Alt) menu bar in FSX. Even more so, if you had to go into FSUIPC make adjustments, then come back, but now NTHUSIM isn't working right. So, would you have to restart NTHUSIM everytime you make adjustments, because NTHUSIM is not coming back in right?

OK, I thought I mentioned that but maybe not. Alt-Enter works totally fine for me.  I can go to window mode & come back to full screen with no problems and Nthusim does its thing with no problem as well. I just don't do it that way but it works nevertheless. Again, are you still using the evaluation version of Nthusim? If yes, that could be the problem since the full version works for sure (I can't really recall whether the evaluation version would allow going to window mode & back or not)

I can also go into FSUIPC while in full screen mode, make any changes there and close it and I am still in full screen mode with proper warping. If that is not working for you, then that is certainly not an Nthusim problem at that point.

The only problem I can confirm so far is if a temporary or permanent pop up with the  green bar shows up, the screen does flicker until the pop up disappears. Once it disappears, the screen is back to normal.

If however a pop up with that infamous green bar does not go away until you do some action, then that is a real problem as the screen will indeed keep flickering to the point of being unusable. So far, I don't use anything that will do that since I have not loaded any of the programs/features that cause this problem.

Maurice

[Nat Crea]

Guys...just tested the Beta NThusim ver.3,
and am glad to say the lads fixed the flickering green bar (shift-e).
I dont have all the other add-ons to test but Im confident youll be happy.
No issues with Alt-Enter either...

Nat

[blueskydriver]

Thanks Maurice, Nat and the guys at NTHUSIM. We've been getting emails from Andy as well, and all looks really promising.

Just got up here and plan to spend all day working on this...really must say this hobby is so awesome and what a great group of people!

Additionally, big kudos to Bob Reed for hosting this site and Trevor Hale for maintaining it...thanks guys!

BSD team.

Edit: Maurice, we're using full version by the way...forgot to answer that from before.

[XOrionFE]

Sorry to be late but been out of town traveling on business.    I see therer has been a resolvolution and happy to hear though I never experienced the issues (because I dont use the green bar I guess).

Anyway, good news.

Scott

[blueskydriver]

Hey Scott,

Glad you're back... Yes, some things have been resolved, but do check to see what you get with your setup. Started last night looking at NTHUSIM 3.0 with the new edge blending.

Here is what we've found so far:

1. On the inital install, the license got lost, so had to reverify it (no big deal).

2. Not sure why, but the saved config file from before was not imported correctly because 3.0 came as an un-configured setup, and it did not bring in the previous config. However, when importing the backup (previous) config (from secondary backup location), we selected backup instead of restore on the main program window(thinking backup as in backup in action...user error this part) and of course that overwrote the previous one.

How could this happen you ask; especially, when you have to confirm the save. Well, being a little excited about the edge blending, we got click happy, and another problem is that our projectors are too low like Maurice's, so we can't always see the dialogs.

Still, you might have to redo your projectors and NTHUSIM config anyway to work with the edge blending overlap. So, expect projector realignments.

3. Plan to email Andy about this part, but what we don't get is this; if the process is to start NTHUSIM first, then start FSX, why does it appear that NTHUSIM produces a full-screen mode of it's own first?

Try this, open NTHUSIM, then FSX (using a pre-saved FLT file if you like), and then you'll be in full screen mode (this will be stage one). Now, use Alt-Enter to go window mode (call this stage two), and then Alt-Enter again to go back to full screen mode (stage three). If you do this, try the Shift-E key at the end of each stage.

You'll notice that at stage one the Shift-E still has something wrong, but after stage two and three, it's fine and no flick or jumping. Thus, the problem is fixed right? Well, what dosen't make sense is why does the stage one actually occur, and what does this have to do with the green-bar and other pop-ups...how about the "FPS" factor? It seems that the FPS rate changes with these stages somehow.

If you read Nick Neeham's lastest guides he says stay away from Alt-Enter altogether (if possible), but if it's not possible, then there could be a FPS hit and this is without using NTHUSIM. However, if NTHUSIM is affecting FPS wouldn't that be of concern as well as what FSX already does when mode switching like this?

Finally, it can be somewhat easy to overlook all this since it is so trival. Still, if your like us and make updates to your setup, be it to FSX itself or an add-on, and it causes changes like this, it's better to know now what the problems are, rather then wait till it produces other problems with FSX or other add-ons later. We all know that problems in flight simulation is like setting up dominos; you push one all they all fall (uh, ...fail!)

[XOrionFE]

I appreciate the heads up.   No way I am messing with my projector alignment now so I will be sure to back everything up so I can go back if need be.    I will let you know what I find.....hopefully have time Saturday to mess with it.

Scott

[Nat Crea]

3. Plan to email Andy about this part, but what we don't get is this; if the process is to start NTHUSIM first, then start FSX, why does it appear that NTHUSIM produces a full-screen mode of it's own first?

BSD,

NThusim will NOT make your FSX full-screen...it has no power over your .FSX cfg.

You are running fullscreen automatically, because that is the way you last exited
FSX. If you close FSX in window mode, it will restart windowed the next time.
(or modify your .FLT if you are starting up from a saved flight rather than the FSX.exe)

Maybe should do that if you need to tinker/play with other programs before youre ready to fly?

On the other note, I have never seen a frame rate drop due to NThusim/Sol7 at all.
Even alt-enetering does not effect my frames one bit...

Cheers,

Nat

[blueskydriver]

3. Plan to email Andy about this part, but what we don't get is this; if the process is to start NTHUSIM first, then start FSX, why does it appear that NTHUSIM produces a full-screen mode of it's own first?

Nat, thank you for responding. Have you been checking NTHUSIM to see if any of this occurs on your setup (although, you're using Sol 7, so there would be differences)? If it doesn't then we're leaning more on something else...

BSD,

NThusim will NOT make your FSX full-screen...it has no power over your .FSX cfg.

You are running fullscreen automatically, because that is the way you last exited
FSX. If you close FSX in window mode, it will restart windowed the next time.
(or modify your .FLT if you are starting up from a saved flight rather than the FSX.exe)

This is exactly what we would expect to happen. The last mode is what comes back; however, using a FLT file or going from FSX program window (that has the aircraft, time of day, weather, and etc drop down menus) then choosing to load the pre-saved Flt file; we go right too a full screen view. This is where we first see the problem with the Green Bar Window (GBW). But, after using Alt-Enter (to window-mode, then full screen, that is when things change (as described eariler).

It is after you use Alt-Enter, that is where the problem with this GBW has been corrected by NTHUSIM folks. You won't see after switching modes. It is only on that inital start that it is there now. However, before their fix, it occured no matter what, and it caused the flicking.


Maybe should do that if you need to tinker/play with other programs before youre ready to fly?

The GBW is only one of the problems, but is because this flicking happens on it's own, even before using Alt-Enter. Still, not using the Alt menu in FSX or choosing any other program during the pre-flight stage is impossible, if you use FSXpassengers, FS2Crew or any other add-on that requires starting after the aircraft is loaded up and sitting on the taxiway, runway, and etc. If we didn't have to switch we wouldn't, but there is no other way to start these additional add-ons.

On the other note, I have never seen a frame rate drop due to NThusim/Sol7 at all.
Even alt-enetering does not effect my frames one bit...

We wouldn't expect to see a FPS drop either, but it is from this mode switching that things change. Plus, the Anti-Aliasing seems as if it's turned off if you use Alt-Enter (after that inital first stage full screen). We spent all day yesterday changing the video card drivers, Matrox drivers, checking Nick's guide and that that caused even worse problems. Pretty much the lower half of the screen was being video ripped (the polygon looking shapes) when NTHUSIM was turned on (started before). So, we, restored everything and plan to look at it all again today...

Cheers,

Nat

Thanks again for your help Nat.

[blueskydriver]

Well, 3.0 is solving the GBW issue for sure. After totally uninstalling NTHUSIM and then installing 3.0 things look better.

In the mean time, has anyone ever done this; add a link onto the Alt-menu bar? Our thought is this, have a link on the Alt-menu bar say under "add-ons" (made-up name) next to modules, under that have any needed add-ons listed that would need to be opened. Upon clicking the add-on program name, say for example we have three listed:

EFB
FSXPassengers
FS2Crew

That would open the program (being that we'd use .exe as the link) and in the icon link properties we have the program set to minimize on opening. Thus, the program(s) would open minimized... This should stop the need to use Alt-Enter. (mode switching)

Being that we have made modifications to the Alt-menu in the past, while experimenting, it should be easy to do. Firgure that if software companies can do this for their programs, us users should be able to do it as well...

BSD

Edit: FSXPassengers is already on the Alt-menu bar. However, we know how to put the FS2Crew on the Views/panel menu.

By the way, FS2Crew FSX Default 737 will work with the imported PMDG 737; we've been doing it for quite sometime. If you want the panel.cfg to make this work use this: Note you must already own FS2Crew for FSX Default 737.

[VIEWS]
VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=20,21,22,23,24
VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=3.5,0.0,0.0
VIEW_FORWARD_RIGHT_WINDOWS=30
VIEW_FORWARD_RIGHT_DIR=1.7, 0.0, 45
VIEW_RIGHT_WINDOWS=34
VIEW_RIGHT_DIR=2.4, 0.0, 90
VIEW_REAR_RIGHT_WINDOWS=35
VIEW_REAR_WINDOWS=36
VIEW_REAR_LEFT_WINDOWS=33
VIEW_LEFT_WINDOWS=32
VIEW_LEFT_DIR=2.6, 0.0, 270
VIEW_FORWARD_LEFT_WINDOWS=31
VIEW_FORWARD_LEFT_DIR=2.7, 0.0, 315
VIEW_DOWN_WINDOWS=37
VIEW_DOWN_DIR=11.0, 0.0, 0.0

[Color]
Day=255,255,255
Night=255,255,255

[Window10]
size_mm=681, 57
pixel_size=681, 57
position=3
visible=0
ident=1000
zorder=100
gauge00=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_MainPanel, 0,0,681,57
gauge01=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_VoiceMain, 0,0,1,1
gauge02=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Audio, 0,0,1,1

[Window Titles]
//window00=Main Panel
Window09=Mini Panel
Window10=FS2Crew Main Panel
Window11=FS2Crew Configuration Panel

[Window00]
file_1024=737-800_panel_background.bmp
file_1024_night=737-800_panel_background_night.bmp
size_mm=1024
position=7
visible=1
ident=MAIN_PANEL
gauge07=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Icon, 892, 452, 59 ,59
gauge22=B737_800!flap_indicator,                892,452

[Window09]
position=6
size_mm=221,211
child_3d=1
background_color=0,0,0
ident=MINIPANEL
gauge00=B737_800!pfd_screen,       0, 0
gauge01=B737_800!pfd,             21,19,179,179

[Window10]  //Main Panel
size_mm=681, 57
pixel_size=681, 57
position=3
visible=0
ident=1000
zorder=100

gauge00=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_MainPanel, 0,0,681,57
gauge01=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_VoiceMain, 0,0,1,1
gauge02=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Audio, 0,0,1,1

[Window11]
size_mm=866, 248
pixel_size=866, 248
position=4
visible=0
ident=1001
zorder=100
gauge00=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_AudioSetup, 0,0,866,62
gauge01=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_PreFlight, 0,62,866,62
gauge02=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_Pushback, 0,124,866,62
gauge03=FS2Crew2010\Versions\B737Default\Gauges\FS2CrewB737!FS2Crew_FlightData, 0,186,866,62

[VCockpitInfo]
TotalVCockpit=1

[VCockpit01]
size_mm=1024,1024
pixel_size=1024,1024
texture=$737_1