PMDG getting their act together

[jackpilot]

A  google search on "Continental 737 manual" should get it.
Cheers

[jskibo]

About a month ago, while at a Best Buy store, found a PMDG B747-400X version on sale from the $40 to $20. This version of PMDG has been out for awhile, but the original cost of $40 was surprising.

The fact that PMDG is sold in Best Buy stores like X-plane and FSX has been sold in Walmart stores, the prices for the new PMDG 737-700NGX likely will not go over much more than what these items have sold for in the past. At first, it will cost more and likely more for that open access or SDK factor. However, if you wait a little longer after it hits online stores, you'll see it in the discount stores for less. Heck, a to wait after it hits the market is worth doing since the bugs will be there to fix...that is always a factor no matter how good the software.

By the way, we don't really fly the B747-400X, but just wanted to get a feel for PMDG's new-ness so to speak. Anyone, doing a B747-400 build?

BSD

PMDG said a long time ago that was a one time deal they made with Best buy for distro on an already old product.  Under the deal they had no control over Best Buy pricing and were not happy that Best Buy undercut their own web download pricing that much for the same product.  I too picked it up for $20 as it was a great deal.  747 was resource heavy though.

[DaveC]

Just watched a video on the PMDG 737NGX by Angle of Attack and all I can say is WOW!  Prepare to be impressed (unless I am just easily hoodwinked).  The link is from the PMDG forum.

http://www.flyaoamedia.com/aoa/nicks-737ngx-cockpit-thoughts/

Dave C.

[blueskydriver]

Watching this and about 1/2 through it, and it's awe inspiring! The detail is beyond belief for seeing this for the first time...

In all honesty, the time spent on the detail alone, justifies why it too so long for PMDG to complete it. Without going any further, the inital impression is a lasting one.

Now, the big question is what does it take in a computer system to tap into this detail? Wondering if PMDG is pulling the resources of the video card, and thereby putting it to use to relieve the CPU from doing the work, which is the normality for FSX. Hopefully, PMDG has discovered a way too do this; otherwise, nothing but the fastest CPU on the market will be needed.

Finally, this just makes the want or what Mau might say "the lust" for it all the more. Maybe, they should call it PMDG B737NGXrated or PMDG B737NGX (J-Lo) , since so many people will be getting even more overly excited about it now!...lol

BSD

[fsaviator]

It is pretty impressive.  Hell, I'm buying it just to have it, regardless of whether it can be used in the sim or not.  This will be perfect for taking on deployments on my laptop.

I hadn't been on the PMDG forum in a loooong time.  I have to admit I had more time reading some the threads than actually reading about the plane.  They have a couple of real winners signed up over there.

[Maurice]

I may be missing something here, but how does this eye candy help cockpit builders in any way at all. Very impressive for desktop simmers for sure but all I will see is my own cockpit so that level of detail is totally useless to me or to any cockpit builder.

The proof of the pudding will be how well it flies & sounds and particularly how well and how easily it can be used with SimA or PM software or any other interfacing solution.

My guess would be that they are not going to reveal their software code for their VNAV for instance so we will still need to rely on SimA or PM or X-Plane software to do that and not on all the work PMDG has done to improve these and other very difficult software challenges.

I certainly hope I'm wrong but time will tell.

Maurice

[astron]

Hey Maurice, im with you, i dont really see any benefit to using it in the cockpit, the only thing that might be of use would maybe be to use the flight model, but now were talking possibly going through the nightmare of it working with sim-A     i had enough problems just getting the default 737 to work with sim-A from the beginning,Mark actualy had to make me another,file for his 737 default in sim-A,  when we were having problems with it going whacko after it reached fl240 and unless this pmdg plane flies un believably better than the default,for all the headaches i think i will just stay with the default plane as i know it works well now.

i think it might be worth having the pmdg plane if you wanted to use it on your desktop sim and learn how all of the systems and various things work, it might be great as a learning tool for something like that

Tom

[Bob Reed]

Well I know on their 74 model you can not modify it like the old 737 to use in our cockpits. Remove the panels and the thing will not fly right. So I would think similar will be done to the new 73.....

[727737Nut]

There is supposed to be an SDK released to allow 3rd party interfacing.  If so, then good bye PM, SIM A, and prosim!!!  But don't hold your breath!  LOL

[MLeavy737]

+1 Maurice..

Mike Leavy

[DaveC]

Maurice, I agree.  I just want it to learn how all the aircraft systems work and for the detail when I need to figure out how something in the cockpit looks.  I think it is doubtful it will be able to be used in our sims, but I think it will make a fantastic resource tool.

Dave C.

[Joe Lavery]

I think the Angle of Attack DVD might be a good investment for the same reason Dave. I dread to think how many hours I've spent reading about the 737 systems. I find it's somehow easier to absorb when it's presented in this visual format.

Joe.

[fsaviator]

I'm not so sure this won't be able to be used in a home cockpit sim.  Some of the comments made by the PMDG staff state that it will pass info through LINDA/LUA.  While I'm no expert on LUA, it would tend to make me believe that along with an SDK, it may very well be usable.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Watching the AoA video, it appears that EVERY thing has been replicated.  Obviously, as FSX doesn't replicate everything, it has to be in the PMDG logic.

I'm not a PMDG cheerleader, and I have no emotional ties to any certain simpit hardware and/or software manufacturers/developers.  My goal is to replicate the 737 systems and flight model as accurately and as cheap as possible, with as much hardware as possible.  Many will remember that I started this project a while back with the intent of using PMDG, like Ian.

As I said before though, despite my sarcastic wit in regards to how long PMDG has taken to release this bird, I'll buy it just for the ability to fly it on my laptop while away from home, where I do not have my simpit.

Being fair to PMDGs efforts here, you'll be hard pressed to argue that they have not developed a revolutionary product that will change the expectations of all simmers from here on out.  Besides, we all know we're going to buy it regardless...  who wants to be the simmer that didn't buy it?


Now if someone would just develop a virtual tape measure to go along with EZDok, then I could just get whatever measurements I need from the NGX to build my cockpit
Warren

[Joe Lavery]

A lot of very valid points there Warren, and like you i have no affiliation to any developer. I write for PC Pilot but the reviews we carry out are commissioned by the editor.

The previews and reports I keep getting from my associate who has the beta are very positive, in fact he is getting carried away a bit... However he does not have a pit himself. He was actually a 747 captain for Virgin Atlantic for many years and a 737 jockey before that. Together with our mentor Ian Sissons, he was instrumental in getting me off the ground when I first built my 737.

Regarding your measurements, our friend Mike Leavy has been very accommodating with any measurements I needed, together with excellent photos. 

Joe.

[bussgarfield]

I tend to agree with Warren in so much that the replication of the system and logic will indeed be through PMDG. But and here is the big but. If the PMDG systems can be emulated through a lap top via FSX, then surely the systems and logic will eventually be able to be replicated through our home built sims.

I am sure the FS9 PMDG 737 was intended for the desk top simmer but look how people have been able to adapt the (what is now) 'old' technology to cope with their own cockpit demands.

It may well take time to get the 'other' software producers to get their act together to produce software to work along side PMDG and FSX but it will be worth the wait. Forget the eye candy, I have the FS9 version and as remarkable as it is, the FSX version really does surpass it with it's ability to mimic the 'real' 737 - I bow to the 'real' pilots here as I have never flown one but time will indeed tell.

If I can get just one function to work through FSUIPC then I know I am on to a winner and the world will be my oyster. If not then I will carry on building and flying the default 737 until something else comes along.

When all is said and done, if it works through FSX then the switches and buttons can be programmed with what I currently have so I live in hopes.

I will purchase the AoA tutorials to compliment the NGX and together with the manuals I purchased, I may start to get to grips with how to turn on the ignition, shove it into gear and put my foot down.

I know there are the die hards out there that will stay with the 737 software that they have and I take my hat off to them but please don't burst my bubble :-(

Gary

[bussgarfield]

Further to the above, I have just found out that given the iFly 737 for FSX is just a few weeks old, OpenCockpits has announced the following (translated from Spanish) - We are pleased to announce the integration of opencockpits modules with the great iFly addon for Flight Simulator 2004 and FSX.

It wont be too long before the NGX gets the same treatment and given that most of my hardware is OpenCockpits, I welcome this.

Gary

[Joe Lavery]

A bit more fuel for the fire...

http://www.flyaoamedia.com/aoa/nicks-737ngx-cockpit-thoughts/

This is one awesome model, you may not want to use it but you have to admire what they've done. WARNING this video is over an hour long.

Joe.

[jackpilot]

All right Guys, I'm sold...

All this in a 3 digits product!
My advice now:
If you own some of the following Shares in your Portfolio, sell  while you can....

CAE
Thales
FlightSafety Intn.
Mechtronix
Frasca

[bussgarfield]

Thanks for the tip Jack.

Just wondering - have you any advice on my shares with the Murdochs' News Corpration?

Regarding the 3 digit price tag, I reckon we might find out this week - might be surprised !!

Gary

[DaveC]

I'm guessing $100 +/- a bit.  Then plan on HUNDREDS more for all the addons:  Training Manuals, Charts, Posters, Videos, etc.  Good consumer strategy for them.  We'll see shortly.

Dave C.

[Joe Lavery]

Well Dave, they've already published the price of the manuals.
For example the full set of Chief Pilot flight training manuals is on offer at $329.99.

This includes:
•PMDG 737-NGX Flight Crew Operating Manual Vol. 1 & Vol. 2
•PMDG 737-NGX Flight Crew Training Manual
•PMDG 737-NGX Quick Reference Handbook
•Three 737-NGX Cockpit Posters
•PMDG 737-NGX Aircraft System Schematics
•Bound set of Jeppesen Training Charts for your Type Ride
Plus $50 worth of valuable extras!

Over 3500 Pages of printed manuals.

Expensive.. Yes but there's a lot in there for your money. Naturally you can buy all these separately which means you can buy just the ones you need.

If you buy just the 2 manual set of Operating manual they are $169.99

Joe.

[727737Nut]

I read that a PDF version of complete manuals will be included with the plane purchase. 

[bussgarfield]

Yes a PDF version will come with the plane. Quote from Ryan at PMDG -

'Here is what's coming with the product as PDFs:

PMDG written:
-Introduction (over 100 pages with an overview of the aircraft, explanations of the options and use of our custom fuel and payload UIs, the livery manager etc)
-The tutorial flights - there are two coming with the airplane, a basic introductory flight and a more advanced flight. I intend to make this an ongoing thing, more will be written post-release focusing on specific advanced things - for the first time ever we have the ability to embed armed failures into the saved flights, so this will make for some neat tutorials that involve dealing with them without knowing what's coming at you.

Boeing written:
-Flight Crew Operating Manual (FCOM) Volumes 1 & 2
-Flight Crew Training Manual (FTCM)
-Quick Reference Handbook (QRH)

These 4 items are over 3000 pages in length.'

Hope that helps Dave - probably saved you buying $100's of unecessary addons !!!

Gary

[fsaviator]

Well, I have to admit I have been following the PMDG forum very closely.  I've downloaded all the videos, and I've even (briefly) contemplated buying the Boeing manuals (I've decided that for that price I can buy a lot of toner for my laser printer).  I'm extremely impressed with the level of detail PMDG has put into the product, and the apparent ability AoA has to present it to the user.

I admire PMDG (and now also AoA) for their marketing prowess.  Between the two companies, they have built the anticipation up to such a point that I would guess that most simmers will probably buy both the NGX and the AoA training (within minutes of it's release based on the forum online numbers)!  Don't get me wrong, both products look like they will be well worth the money (provided they keep to past pricing practices), but I am very concerned that this opens the door for a large increase in pricing.  While I cringe at dropping $5,000 for yokes, $4,000 for TQ's, and $1,000 for logic software and such, I have always had the means to pretty much buy any Flight Sim software I needed as they were always reasonably priced for the simmer (<$50), so I hope that the cost of the NGX and the AoA training doesn't surpass my principles and ability to fit it into my flight sim budget.

For those that know what I do, you'll know that it is hard to get me excited about much but yet I find myself constantly checking for a release date...  in the meantime I sit here and grumble that I didn't preinstall my PMDG 737 into FSX before I went on vacation which leaves me flying it in FS9 at the moment (and wait for the next AoA video to download so I can watch it stutter free)

Warren

[bussgarfield]

Wont have long to wait now Warren. PMDG have just released a 7-10 day window for the release and are aiming for 4th August. They still have a couple of bugs to iron out but they have said that they want a perfect plane on the release day.

Phew.

Gary