Affordable Custom Curved Projector Screens!

[blueskydriver]

We just got our sim turned on here not 15 mintues ago, after nearly two weeks of working on the new projector screen. It is done! Planning to post more pictures tonight or tomorrow. It's actually amazing, this new screen. A little over $400 and that includes shipping for a 8ftx34ft screen with 250 bungees and gromments every 6 inches. I cannot get over how good it looks! The big factor is there has not been a place that would do custom screens within a reasonable budget; however, it looks like "Carl's Place" is going to be the all new go to spot...he does a great job and well within in budget!

For some previous info about the screen go here:



More to come later...

[jetpilot]

Thank you BSD. I am woking ight now on my curved screen and this info just come at the right time.
Roberto

[blueskydriver]

Here are some more photos of the new Custom Projection Screen. Also, added the info for the business it was purchased from below:

Carl's Place
1223 Storrs Lake Road
Milton, Wisconsin, USA
phone: 608-352-0002
http:\\www.carlofet.com/
or email to: carl@carlofet.com

Here is a link to his Ebay site:  http://stores.ebay.com/Carls-Place-Projector-Screens

[blueskydriver]

Roberto,

Thank you. What size screen are you going for? Here is some important info for anyone who is going to purchase a screen from Carl's Place.

1. You need to know the exact height and width you want, and then you must subtract the black border with the gromments from all sides. So, if the borders are 2 1/2 inches, you must subtract 5 inches total from the height, and then 5 inches from the width. In other words, you have to account for the border versus you're needed viewable area (the area where the images will be projected).

2. You must account for the bungee tension distance in regards to your "PVC Frame". So, the bungees stretch 1/2-3/4 inches; thus, you would add 1 or 1 1/2 inch to the overall height, and 1 or 1 1/2 inch to the overall width. Now, adding that to the border measurements. You must acount for 6 or 6 1/2 inches versus your viewable area in order for your frame to be the right size.

The point is this, if your viewable/projected image equals 6 feet in height and 30 feet in width, you would order a screen that is 6 feet and 5 inches in height by 30 feet and 5 inches in width; however, your frame size will be 6 feet and 6 1/2 inches in height and 30 feet and 6 1/2 inches in width.

3. The gromments can be placed at whatever distance you want, the more you have added, the more it might change the cost. From what I understand, 1 gromment every 12 inches is normal. However, I went with 1 gromment every six inches, which makes the tension on the screen better.

In fact, the whole point of all this measuring and gromment spacing is too get the best tension on the screen. Tight tension equals smooth surface.

4. When ordering and you're asked about the bungees, he sells them in requested amounts, but it is cheaper to get 250 of them (if you need that many?). My screen has 168 gromment holes, but it needed two bungees per gromment on 20 holes, so that is 188 bungees. I have way more than I need, but if any of them break or wear out; I will have many extra for backups.

5. The framing is White PVC 3/4 inch plastic water type tubing. The walls are a little thicker than the grey PVC, but still flexible enough to curve. Why thicker walls? Because you have tension on the PVC tubing at a 90 degree angle, so the thicker walls helps keep the stiffness, but can still be curved on the horizontal plane. The biggest thing to suggest to you is this: BUY A PVC TUBE CUTTING TOOL!

A PVC tube cutting tool works like a cutter/scissors and ratchet all at the same time. It took a whole 10 seconds to cut the PVC, as opposed to a silly hack saw or other type of cutter that leaves a mess everywhere. The PVC cutter cost $34 US. Also, you will have to cut your frame on the fly, so to speak. You can plan all this out on paper, but if you have for example: an 8 feet and 4 inch vertical side PVC tube requirement and you planned it out on paper to be 8 feet and 5 inch, yet you didn't know this until you are putting it all together; well, you just grab the PVC tube cutter and snip off that extra inch on the fly. Do not have someone pre-cut these PVC tubes for you or even go that route...YOU WILL make adjustments when setting this up...so cut them yourself, cannot stress this point enough.

6. The metal conduit hangers are 3/4 inch type and ordered from Ace Hardware online. Ace Hardware Online is the cheapest at about $.50 each, where a hardware store charges nearly $1 each. You will need about 160 hangers. Why so many?

It all goes back to tension again; you will place one hanger every six inches. When you get these hangers, get the type that only need a nut to be tightened or are called round head bolts. The round heads will hold themselves in place when you tighten the nut. The point here is not to fool around with a wrench in one hand and a screw driver in the other (if you use the screw head types-the cheaper galvinized type conduit hangers, it will take longer and you could slip and cut into your screen with the screwdriver).

When you buy the actual screws that you will use to mount the hangers to the wall surface, get the type with a socket head, so you can use a socket wrench. It's much easier and faster...

6. Buy a box of latex or vinyl (if you cannot wear latex) gloves. You will need these to handle the screen. And, you will go through quite a few pairs. Why do this? If you get one mark, cut or stain on the screen, you're going to see it when you turn on the projectors. We didn't have that happen, but that is why it took nearly two weeks to put the screen up.

Finally, the screen comes folded in the box; you could get it rolled, but the gromments would leave indents into the screen and they would take longer to naturally come out as opposed to the fold lines. Guess what removes the lines? You guessed it...TENSION!

So, the name of the game is:

-Know for sure the size of the screen you need
-Account for Bungee Tension and how many bungees you will need
-Know how many gromment holes you want
-Use 3/4 inch PVC Water Type Tube and make sure you get a PVC tube cutter
-Get your 3/4 inch PVC Hangers online (cheaper) with round head bolts and nuts
-Use the right screws and nuts
-Wear latex or vinyl gloves when handling the screen
-Keep everything nice and tight, but don't over do it and take your time.

Now, sit back and enjoy your new "curved" projector screen!

BSD

By the way, the brightness of the image is so amazing compared to before! AND, guess what else? For some reason the texture of the material being used on the screen itself helps reduce the screen pattern that the projectors put out. In other words, it helps reduce that screen door effect. Before, it seemed huge, but now it's barely noticable.

[jetpilot]

BSD,
Your explanation of how to set up this screen is really thorough. I really appreciate it.
I need to do couple of messurements, but I am planning for a 5.5 feet radius curve screen, 210 FOV, with 3 projectors (I am planning to use the Mitsubishi WD380U-EST).
The size of the effective screen 80'x60' (WxH) x 3 = 240'x60'.
For these projectors, at that given throw distance (3 feet), ideally the screen gain should be 0.7.
Do you know what is the approx gain for this screen?
Do you or does anybody here have any xperience with these projectors.

Once again, Thank you
Roberto

[blueskydriver]

Roberto,

Just checking, do you mean inches or feet because 80'x60' is feet! Is that suppose to be inches 80"x60"? So, if it is inches you would have a screen that is 240"x60".

As for the gain value, I don't know as I really didn't ask. Normally, that is something to consider; maybe, you can contact Carl about that?

My projectors are Mitsubishi EW230STu which might be close to yours and they work great. Will try to look at the specs for yours and get back to you...

BSD

[jetpilot]

BDS,
My mistake, I meant inches. Thank you again
Roberto

[blueskydriver]

Roberto,

Looking at your projector's specs now and seeing some interesting things:

1. It has lan support, so that means two things, you can likely turn them off/on and adjust them from a remote computer through a browser. That makes it easy because trying to use a remote on 3 exact same model of projectors does not work period.

Also, did you read about the ability to split the projected image into four quarters and up to four computers can be used for one projector? That makes me think a lot of different things that could be possible...

2. The projectors' have HDMI connections, so use those for your setup and likely your FSX video cards will have DVI. If so, purchase DVI to HDMI cables (DVI one end and HDMI the other) and those will be 6 feet to 25 feet, depending on how far your FSX server is from the projectors.

3. I didn't see anything regarding gain values or screen requirements in the manual. You'll likely find more about that when researching projector screens. Then again, we got the screen at Carl's Place and didn't worry about the gain values. I think you really have to worry about the gain more when you do not have control over the room lighting. In most cases, cockpit builders have maybe one  other light on in the room or even none at all. The gain factor certainly is important when it comes to contrasting brightness to darks in the image, but what I see is that with the screen from Carl's Place, the blacks look really good.

For example, prior to the new screen, there was no way to see clouds in the darkness. Well, flew on VatSim yesterday into a storm at KATL and the clouds were visible even though it was dark out. The city lighting helped light the area of course, but never before has this been viewable. So, there is certainly a gain difference, but I don't know what it is and if Carl even rates them; give him a call....

Best Regards,

BSD

[XOrionFE]

Roberto, what radius will your screens be?  How high is your ceiling? I think you may have some issue with these projectors you got unless you are building a larger diameter than 12 ft like mine.  Also if your ceiling height isnt at least 8.5 ft you are going to run into some problems due to the drop from the lense to the screen projected top.

Happy to discuss.   Just hoping you did a diagram and ran the calculator.....

Scott

[Maurice]

By the way, the brightness of the image is so amazing compared to before! AND, guess what else? For some reason the texture of the material being used on the screen itself helps reduce the screen pattern that the projectors put out. In other words, it helps reduce that screen door effect. Before, it seemed huge, but now it's barely noticable.

Hi BSD,

Do you know if that screen material could be glued to a wall without affecting the material? A while back, I asked that question to the distributors and they never answered. Since I already have a decent curved wall, gluing screen material to it should improve the visuals especially since you say it improves the image clarity.

The hard part of course would be to find the right glue with enough sticking power & drying longevity so that the screen material sticks evenly on a vertical surface. That might be next to impossible I would think.

Thanks,
Maurice

[Trevor Hale]

Mau,

I have seen some glue that you paint on with a brush on to the wall, then paint on the back of your material.  and leave them alone for about 20 minutes.  then at that time, they both become almost dry to the touch, but as soon as you meet one to the other it holds very strong.  I can't think of what it is called, but something like that should work.

Either that or just stand there and run from side to side of your big screen as the corners start to fall LOL

[Maurice]

Either that or just stand there and run from side to side of your big screen as the corners start to fall LOL

Yep, that would work and be good for the aging heart as well.  As far as the other option you mention, I'm pretty sure you were talking about contact cement. By the time I would finish spreading the whole surface, I would be flying very high thanks to the fumes and would not need the simulator, so might be a workable option

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Mau,

The material is like a silky smooth cloth, but not actual cloth thin; however, I think the glue could be problematic because if it did seep through, your screen is done for...

Why do you want to glue it anyway? Is it because of expansion and contraction issues or something else? Straight up, I would say "Maurice do exactly what Karen and I did" you would be really be happy with it!

Just so everyone knows, the cost was $430 for the screen and bungees (which included shipping), $55.96 for the first 120 Conduit Hangers, 40 were purchased at hardware store and they cost $40 (didn't want to wait for shipping, but they would've only cost $13.99 had I waited), the PVC tubing with connectors was about $50, and last the PVC cutter was $32. Total=$621.95

The thing that you have Maurice is the wall structure already, so just attach the PVC frame and screen to that, and you're all good.

BSD

[Maurice]

Thanks BSD. I'll have to mull over this and see if it's all worth it since my current setup is quite acceptable as is.

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Maurice,

There is one material that could be glued, painted, sanded or whatever, and that is "Muslin" It is like a fabric of sorts that is used in the theater and movie industry. In college, we used it for sets and backdrops. However, you have to work it, but it is cheap in price and very common. Plus, these days you can get it prepainted, bleached, or unbleached. In any case, it could be used for projector screens easily.

---Muslin (from Wikipedia)---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslin

Theater and photography

Muslin is often the cloth of choice for theater sets. It is used to mask the background of sets and to establish the mood or feel of different scenes. It receives paint well and, if treated properly, can be made translucent.

It also holds dyes very well. It is often used to create night time scenes because when it is dyed, it often gets a wavy look with the color varying slightly, such that it resembles a night sky. Muslin shrinks after it is painted, but it is widely used because it makes an excellent painting surface.

In video production as well, muslin can be used as a cheap greenscreen or bluescreen, either precolored or painted with latex paint (diluted with water). It is commonly used as a background for the chroma key technique.

Muslin is the most common backdrop material used by photographers for formal portrait backgrounds. These backdrops are usually painted, most often with an abstract mottled pattern.

In the early days of silent film-making and up until the late 1910s, movie studios did not have the elaborate lights needed to illuminate indoor sets, so most interior scenes were sets built outdoors with large pieces of muslin hanging overhead to diffuse the lighting.

---end---


Funny thing is, I did not think about it until 5 mintues ago...no, seriously it just popped back in my head from those college days! If I had thought about this a few months ago, before the new screen, I'd would've gone that way. Still, Karen and I both agree you would be happy with this type of screen we have from Carl's Place. We're going to work on a video (hopefully) to show this to everyone. After all these years of waiting to get a better screen, it was worth the wait, and it came with the low price.

For everyone, don't let the low price fool you. As we said already, it was by chance we found this dealer. And again, we don't know them at all; we just want to help our fellow cockpit builders...

Maurice if you or anyone else has questions post or PM me or Simlady. In fact, get her opinion as well, she thinks it is a really good way to go.

BSD

[Sean]

I'm just about ready to order a screen from Carl's Place. May I bounce these figures past you John, get your opinion?

The maximum overall dimensions of my available space is 30' x 7' 3". I cannot go any bigger than that due to floor, walls and ceiling.

I want to have the maximum amount of white screen in the space available, even if it is larger than I need.

The black border is 2½" wide, so I first deduct this from my available space = 29' 7" x 6' 10"

The bungee gap I'm not too sure about. You mention a bungee stretch of ½-¾", giving a total of 1-1½" on both sides. In your pictures and the ones on Carl's website, it apears that the bungee space is at least equal to, if not more, than the black border space? This would equal about 5"-6" overall? What am I missing here?

The rest I think I'm clear on.

Sean

[Sam Llorca]

Hi guys I made my screen out of angle steel covered with painters floor mats, I went to Home Depot and in the paint department I found this type of fabrics use to cover the floors. I didn't even have to paint it. hope it help!! Sam.

[blueskydriver]

Hi Sean,

I totally got absent minded here. I just woke up, let me shower and I will take the pictures too post for you. Also, I will PM my phone number if you like to call me on the telephone. Or, we could use the Cockpit Builders Teamspeak Server. Give me an hour or so though...

Sam, I never thought of the material you mentioned. I missed out seeing your Sim @ FDS, but I wouldn't mind visiting you someday, if you're open too it? Although, I am "Johnny on Wheels"...lol...meaning wheelchair. Oh wait, you guys remember Avatar movie? The line of "look, Meals on Wheels"...referring to Sam Worthington's character? Well, that be me...lol!

John

[Sam Llorca]

Johnny you are welcome anytime at my place, now you have a good reason to come to Florida!! if you like flight simulators and flying in general, you are welcome.

[Sean]

I'm in Florida in February! 

[blueskydriver]

Sean,

Okay, look at this backwards. First, you have a total size of 30' x 7' 3"; therefore, that would be your outer most dimesions. Next, if you use PVC and brackets like I did, the brackets will extend the PVC tube inwards about 1", so that means your size got smaller to 29' 10" x 7' 1". You have to subtract the numbers by two for each side, both horizontal and vertical.

Next, you would have the bungee stretch distance, let's us 3/4" to be safe, so that means a total of  1 1/2" for horizontal and vertical (3/4" per side). Now that means your size just got smaller to 29' 8 1/2" x 6' 11 1/2".

Now, you have the border of the screen to account for, so that means you subtract 5" total for horizontal and vertical (2 1/2" per side); thus, you're at 29' 3 1/2" x 6' 6 1/2" at this point. So, you're screen white space will be:

29' 3 1/2" x 6' 6 1/2" (this is your white space)

What would you tell Carl for the size you need? You must ask him if the border is still 2 1/2", if it's still the same, you would order 29' 8 1/2" x 6' 11 1/2" (bordered screen).

The bungee holes are standard every 12" apart. I suggest you have him space them every 6" apart like I mentioned in the way earlier post; you will get better tension this way. I wont calculate the amount of bungees you will need, but you can by converting the 29' 8 1/2" x 6' 11 1/2" to all inches each way, then divide by 6". It will likely be under 250 bungees...

Finally, not knowing what the overall dimensions of your three projectors will be combined, but whatever they are, if they're smaller then the white space calculated, that is the difference in unused white space you will have. In other words, you're building your screen to leave white space for future projecter technology or upgrades. If you purchased to exactly match your projected image size, you would just do the math starting from the projected image size, and then adding the inches for the borders, bungee stretch and PVC brackets.

John

[blueskydriver]

Hi Sam,

Thank you for the invite and with me being the OCD type about all things aviation, I will be planning...uh, scheming my trip to your place real soon! Being that it's so hot all over, I will make it a Winter road trip, so I will have an excuse to escape Wisconsin Winter...if we have anymore?

With the "No, this ain't Global Warming" Globing Warming, it might be called Wisconsin Tropics and Florida will be known as "The Florhara Desert".

Still, I will travel to see you and your sim, via my wheelchair van or camel! Just depends on how hot it gets between now and then...lol!

John

[Sean]

Thanks John.

I'm still struggling to understand how the bungee stretch distance is only 3/4".

From the photographs, the bungees appear to stretch about 3". That is, the PVC tube is about 3" from the edge of the black border. I'd like to speak to you more about this before I order the screen, just to be sure I get it right! Perhaps we can catch up over the weekend?

Sean

[blueskydriver]

Hey Sean,

Yes, speaking with you about it further this weekend would be great...

To answer you question though, I think the pictures are not revealing that the majority of the bungees are stretched about 3/4" from the PVC tube. However, in my posted pics you're seeing mainly the corners, and due to when the screen gets attached, you cannot see how the center of it actually gets pulled inwards on the corners.

It doesn't affect the screen or the visuals, but the point is, we're taking a rectangle and placing it on circle radius. Thus, the extra material that would cover the curve is not there, so the other corner bungees get pulled a little further.

If you look in the photo where you can see the nose of the cockpit, you can see the black balls of the bungees really close to the PVC, that distance is 3/4". Additionally, that is why I mentioned cutting your own PVC while installing this because you have to take into account inaccuratency of the design. The only way to get 100% perfection is having the mounting professionally designed. Of course none of this matters that some bungees are stretched further than others, because I expected indifferences and this is how I accounted for them.

Finally, I'm not sure how you plan to build your frame, so that these same indifferences will be overcome by this method. I used the previous wood panel screen to attach the PVC brackets and PVC tubing, and then attached the screen to that. If I were to suggest how to do this, I would say do it by drawing your curve on the ceiling, then attaching 2'x4' boards all the way from the ceiling to floor at intervals of every 2' or less. Then, you attached some wood strips to the 2'x4's to create the outline of the frame. You would need to make sure the wood strips are thick enough for the PVC to attach to, but not to thick that they cannot flex on the curve.

Also, you could skip the wood strips and just attach the PVC right to the 2'x4's to create the curve and frame, but your screen material will be right up against the 2'x4's on the vertical and over time you might see indentations from them. That is why I used the PVC brackets, to push the screen out from the material behind it and allow it to free float, so too speak. It doesn't move, but it allows for the slight expansion and contraction due to changing temps in the room. You'll  likely never notice any of that; until, you have a problem because you didn't account for the expansion and the contraction...that will be there.

John

[Sean]

Ok John, that's a lot clearer now, thanks.

Of course there will be minor inaccuracies. As you say, we are talking $400 here, not a mega-buck professional setup. But as you'll appreciate, I need to be as accurate as I can be from the off.

Have you been spying on me??? I constructed the timber framework this week. I drew a curve on the floor (and ceiling) then installed timber uprights at 2' centres. I then cut a 8' x 4' sheet of 3/8" MDF into 8' x 5" strips (10 strips) and screwed these strips to the uprights at floor level, ceiling level and up each end.

I don't plan to fit the PVC conduit until I actually have the screen in order that I can get it right, like you suggest, building it in-situ. But at least I have a 5" tolerance around each edge.

I think the important thing for me is to make sure the screen and bungees are no bigger than my max dimensions, as I have nowhere to go then. If it were slightly smaller, I always have the option of fitting additional MDF strips to accommodate as required.

I'll take your advice and order additional grommets at 6" intervals too. I'll speak to Carl today an get him to work out a price for me.

We'll catch up at some point. I saw you online when I woke up this morning, but it'll have been late there and you didn't hang around for long. We still need to plan that online flight too.

Best regards,

Sean