737 TQ from Revolution Simproducts

[NAX228]

The brand new 737TQ from RS getting applauded even before it's release. Ian S. who we all "know" went to Paris to get a clue about the feel of it and ordered one right away.
Take a look at the promo video at their website, and make up your own mind. It sure made up mine;)
There is a FSWeekend special offer witch can save you some hard earned â,¬. They report that they can not deliver at the show in Lelystad because the amount of orders, but the offer still stands.

I'm looking forward to get a chanse to get the feel of it at FEWeekend.Mine won't be delivered until 3-4 weeks later.

http://revolution-simproducts.com/

[Trevor Hale]

Naxx,

I have seen Ian's posts and I too was amazed..  I must admit, next to Art's (Northern Flight Sim's) TQ's this has to be the  best TQ on the market today.  What intrigued me the most, was their discussions of the clutch mechanism that allows the pilot to grab the throttle and override the A/T without causing damage. 

Top notch stuff.  Please let us know how you get on with it when you receive it.  I am curious to find out what kind of software is required to make it tick.

Trev

[NAX228]

Regarding software I use FlightDeckSoftware (FDS). Bart from FDS has been involved during development of the TQ to make sure there is 100% compability between the cockpit software and TQ.
The fact that FDS was contacted before PM is a good pointer of how serious FDS is getting in the market. It's really a good challenger for PM in functionality and price.
As mentioned by Mike in another post, FDS is still under development but it's a fully functional software today as well. It's now being fine tuned and continually adding hardware support from different vendors.

The TQ supports for the time beeing the PMDG737NG, default 737 and FDS. PM and the Ariane 737 is in the pipeline. It's controlled via SIOC scripts.

[dnoize]

I had my hands on this throttle yesterday.

It is still missing support by Flightdecksoftware for the trimwheels. Simply because Flightdecksoftware does not output that data (yet).

Same problem goes for Project magenta and Sim-avionics.

Actually the only software the trimwheels work correct with is the pmdg 737.

The throttle is much better than the symulatory/cockpit sonic/FSC throttle (which is basically all the same symulatory throttle).

However it is not as sturdy as i had expected it based on previous reports.

Most structural parts are made from dibond (2 thin layers of aluminium with a plastic foam inbetween), but also alot of pvc.

Electronics are 1 open cockpit card and one bodnar X card.

Seeing this one i look very much forward to see the open cockpits throttle, being almost full metal with machined aluminium levers.

Stef

[brissydave]

True Stef.

Each tq from each diff supplier is a lovely thing to behold...

If they accurately replicate the real thing...then sturdiness and cold metallic feel/sound is the key.

my experience with reproduced tq's is thoughts on the flimsiness, i noticed it alot.

having said that...im not sure if people realise how wonky (fair amount of play/slop/tolerance) but very strong/sturdy the real thing is.

we always have ideals about how the real one would feel and put it on a pedestal, but alas..

[Trevor Hale]

Wow Stef,  I was under the impression that the revolution TQ was all Metal construction..  Interesting..  and thanks for pointing out that it still has a lot of PVC in it. 

Nax, if it is SIOC, will the user be required to write his own code for it, or will it come with the correct script?

Very good information, thanks to all for posting.

Trev

[Boeing Skunk Works]

Most structural parts are made from dibond (2 thin layers of aluminium with a plastic foam inbetween), but also alot of pvc.

Stef

I noticed that on the flap gate and it looked like a laminate of some kind but I couldn't identify it.

I have to add that the texture of the paint is nearly spot-on. I don't know how they managed that but it looks great.

There is a bit of 'roughness' on the bottom of the throttle levers where they enter the housing too. The parts they formed for the various panels looks really good and accurate too. Especially the trim indicator panels.

Not a bad price actually for what looks to be a very usable piece of kit. Though with the exception of the moving trim wheels, I think I still prefer the way I built mine. Like a tank.

[NAX228]

Nax, if it is SIOC, will the user be required to write his own code for it, or will it come with the correct script?

Trev

I got my hands on the initial manual and it describes the interfacing. The TQ comes completely wired and with 2 - two - cards with one USB each. The cards are one OC witch explains the SIOC bit, and one leobodnar card for the axis.
FDS will supply internal support or have the scripts for download in their downloadsection. One or another, you don't have to write the script by your self, but there is some adjustments via SIOC program to be made. They have it shown with text and pics in the manual.

PMDG is the only model/software that already have the offsets to get the trimwheels running, but both PM and FDS will implement these offsets in a few weeks.

[Trevor Hale]

Great News..  Thanks..  I am sure compared to my FSC Throttle this would beat it hands down.

Trev

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

gentlemen, good day......
sorry for my late arrival in this thread, but i've been away on yet another holiday. life's a bitch isn't it 
first point, i have to agree with stef, this unit beats the Symulatory TQ hands down on appearance.  i have a Symulatory TQ and i've been and seen these being built.   but looks aren't everything.   for my money i want more than that.
second point, no servo's used, just a drive system using DC motors so interaction with the TQ with A/T engaged will not cause damage.  in fact levers can be moved at any time.
third point, nax is quite correct, 2 cards.  one bodnar card drives the axes, fuel levers and pushbuttons and OC card drives the automation.     installation of the software is pretty straightforward because the manual has a 'blow by blow' account of how to do it.
the one i saw and played with in Paris worked and felt really good.   there were some minor blemishes, but we are not talking about Boeing here, just two guys in Paris hand making every one. 
as well as the FDS, PM etc interfacing, i also spoke to the guys at Sim Avionics  (because that's what i'm going to use for my upgrade) who were very keen to offer assistance to get it working with that suite as well.
final point, mine was supposed to be here monday, but i spoke to eren yesterday and it is going to be delayed by a couple of days because they have redesigned the side walls to give it more stability.    but trust me, as soon as it arrives, i'll be putting it to work and will advise.
have a great day chaps.......
rgds ... ian

[mpl330]

Slightly off topic but :

i also spoke to the guys at Sim Avionics  (because that's what i'm going to use for my upgrade)

You made a decision which way you are going... Out with the PMDG then (except for the model)?

Look forward to your updates about the TQ...

Cheers
Mike

[dnoize]

Just had a one day session with Bart from flightdecksoftware yesterday to discuss quite a few things. Among others this throttle:

* Ours uses the bodnar card only for the switches. All axes and the dc motors are done by the open cockpits dc motors card.
* This means you have to configure seperately. Axes and dc motors  in SIOC.exe and all switches of the bodnar in FSUIPC. Im not a big fan of using seperate interfaces for one unit.
A sioc script for Flightdecksoftware was supplied but needed quite some work to finish. Appearently the driver for pmdg is great.
Hopefully the needed actions to get sioc to work is in the manual, but we didnt receive a manual with it (it was personally delivered by Eren last week)
Trim wheels did not work in flightdecksoftware, simply because the logics are not provided by the software. This is not Revolution-sims fault. nothing they can do about that.
Appearently trim wheels only work correctly in pmdg

* We managed to get the levers to work, but engine 1 lever is defective as it doesnt keep up with engine two. Both levers seemed jumpy, and as said. engine one too slow, which resulted in differential thrust. over 8% differential thrust should disconnect the autothrottle, but this didnt happen. probably a flaw in the sioc script.

* wiring was not done very professionally ( and thats an understatement). 4 wires got loose during transit.

* Big dissapointment for me: the thrust levers dont use the entire way to the back. the travel of the used slider pots is simply not long enough. However, the way its build, it does look as if you can push the levers all the way back. I forsee people forcing levers down and breaking parts here.

* although everything is better than plastic, dibond is subject to wear and tear when used for mechanical parts. Especially when no bearings are used.

* No clutches are used, but Eren told us they are looking into that for future units.

I made a video of the levers and some pictures. Will try to have them posted later.

We have spoken to Eren and he is going to replace our unit on the fsweekend. appearently we received a preproduction unit and im confident the retail units will have these problems solved.

My final verdict: For home use, with someone who takes good care of it, it is a fine unit. I'm sure most of the flaws mentioned above are exemplary and will be solved in the retail units, otherwise i foresee alot of support work for them.

@NAX: also discussed CS support with bart. Bart is still waiting for CS to supply him with information for their new driver. Level of support will be the same as for the CPflight mipboard. Parts not working there, simply do not have the logics integrated in his software yet. We made a wishlist and everything will be incorporated for the mip737 board . Once logics are incorporated a port to CS shouldnt be much trouble provided CS suplies him with the needed information.

[Trevor Hale]

Fantastic reading..   I really enjoyed that Stef.  This is exactly the type of thing I like to read.  I am so happy that Eren is going to make this right.  From a business standpoint that is fantastic.  I really hope the replacement unit makes up for the shortfalls you noted.

I am looking forward to hearing also what Ian experiences.

Best regards,

Trev

[dnoize]

Unfortunately my comments have been taken WAY too negatively by some.

I was simply giving my personal opinion based on hands on experience. This was by no means 'vendor bashing' in any way.

Just some points of criticizm that is being worked on !

I still think this throttle beats the symulatory TQ hands down !
(especially now that i've heard Trevors story about haunted throttles and exploding servo's ;-)  )

i did end with the quote below for a reason !

My final verdict: For home use, with someone who takes good care of it, it is a fine unit. I'm sure most of the flaws mentioned above are exemplary and will be solved in the retail units

Stef

[Bob Reed]

Unfortunately my comments have been taken WAY too negatively by some.

I was simply giving my personal opinion based on hands on experience. This was by no means 'vendor bashing' in any way.

Just some points of criticizm that is being worked on !

I still think this throttle beats the symulatory TQ hands down !
(especially now that i've heard Trevors story about haunted throttles and exploding servo's ;-)  )

i did end with the quote below for a reason !

My final verdict: For home use, with someone who takes good care of it, it is a fine unit. I'm sure most of the flaws mentioned above are exemplary and will be solved in the retail units

Stef

I for one never took it as bashing. Thaks for all the info Stef!!

[brissydave]

If you were in the market for a throttle unit and had your credit card primed for action you would be begging Stef for more.

clear and to the point.

[Trevor Hale]

For those people who read this thread and may have taken it as vendor bashing, might I point out why it was allowed.

#1.  It was a real personal experience by someone.  (not hearsay)

#2. It was to the point and very clear and there was no unnecisary additions. 

#3. I like that he informed us that he contacted the vendor, and they are going to "Make it right"

#4. Everyone can find this information very useful and beneficial.

If anyone has an issue with the post, Please PM me.

Other then that..  "Kudos Stef" I appreciate your writing, and I think it is great that Revolution is going to fix the problems for you guys.  Shows they care about their reputation.

Trev

[fly_ebos]

Good to see they're taking this seriously. Hopefully I will get the 'updated' version aswell because I'm picking mine up in 2 weeks at the FSWeekend in Lelystad.

Wasn't this a coproduction with FlyEngravity Stef?

[dnoize]

No it wasnt. Although FE has been in close touch since the beginning.

I am very confident that all the comments i mentioned will be adressed before FSweekend.

We have been in touch with Eren on saturday (so prior to my post here) and i must say the the Rev-sim crew is very cooperative in all respects. I have no doubt that in 2 weeks everyone will see a great unit working in lelystad.

Stef

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

have i got this blank expression on my face 
mine arrived so i connected it up to my test rig to check it out.
pics are here http://www.737ng.co.uk/help.htm .   i've spent a couple of days playing with (no i mean seriously evaluating) it.
cosmeticly, it beats the Symulatory TQ hands down for looks.  level of finish is
about the same, but the attention to detail is far better.
the flap gate, by the way is cut from aluminium.
setup took me 30 minutes from connecting it to driving the 73 down a runway.
you do need to install SIOC, but there is no coding.   all i had to do was drop the supplied script file into the SIOC folder and tell SIOC to use it in the .ini file.
the manual goes into detail about how to do this, so no worries.
the auto functions are controlled by SIOC.   but the button functions are controlled thru one of leo's cards which you assign in FSUIPC.   that does mean a bit of extra work and two usb connections, but hey, the end result is well worth it.
comes complete with it's own power supply.
my initial reaction is very positive.   

so how does it perform?   in one word - flawlessly.
i've nothing to compare it with so maybe that's a good thing 
but to me the movement of the levers was quite smooth following the power requirement constantly.    i kept putting the aircraft in climbs and descents and just sat there watching them - transfixed    (ok, bit sad really, but there was nothing on the TV, i wanted to watch)
and the trim wheels just blew me away.  operating exactly how i expected.  they even operated when you input trim manually from the yoke switch.
and finally, the spoiler lever - WOW.

i have had a look inside it (well you have to don't you).    the engineering is very clever.    although i do agree with stef that the wiring could be tidier.   eren tells me they are looking at developing a printed circuit board for it, but need to sell some to take development forward.

so, all in all, i am very satisfied with the unit.   it performed well and has been on constant 'test' (  ) since i got it.

if you are going to lelystad, go see this........

sorry lads got to go, i have a date with the LOC/DME 26 at LOWI 

regards ... ian

[dnoize]

cosmeticly, it beats the Symulatory TQ hands down for looks.  level of finish is about the same, but the attention to detail is far better.

It absolutely does.

setup took me 30 minutes from connecting it to driving the 73 down a runway.
you do need to install SIOC, but there is no coding.   all i had to do was drop the supplied script file into the SIOC folder and tell SIOC to use it in the .ini file.

With the PMDG it works excellent. So for pmdg flyers this is the throttle to have !

the manual goes into detail about how to do this, so no worries.
the auto functions are controlled by SIOC.   but the button functions are controlled thru one of leo's cards which you assign in FSUIPC.   that does mean a bit of extra work and two usb connections, but hey, the end result is well worth it.

Excellent, ours didnt come with a manual so we were a bit handycapped.

but to me the movement of the levers was quite smooth following the power requirement constantly.    i kept putting the aircraft in climbs and descents and just sat there watching them - transfixed    (ok, bit sad really, but there was nothing on the TV, i wanted to watch)
and the trim wheels just blew me away.  operating exactly how i expected.  they even operated when you input trim manually from the yoke switch.
and finally, the spoiler lever - WOW.

Excellent. Trim wheels only works good with pmdg right now. But thats something Rev-Sim cant do anything about as this logics has to come from the software used with the throttle.

Flightdecksoftware has not implemented this yet, and with PM it doesnt work correctly either. But as said before, this is not Rev-Sims fault. Nothing they can do about that.

i have had a look inside it (well you have to don't you).    the engineering is very clever.    although i do agree with stef that the wiring could be tidier.   eren tells me they are looking at developing a printed circuit board for it, but need to sell some to take development forward.

Thats very good news.

so, all in all, i am very satisfied with the unit.   it performed well and has been on constant 'test' (  ) since i got it.

All in all great news. Its obvious the throttle has been worked on and i have no doubts all issues with ours will be solved also.

Have a good time with the new toy.

Stef

[fly_ebos]

Great news! Can't wait to pick mine up this Sunday in Lelystad 

[NAX228]

Glad to read this "review" Ian. Mine is still a couple of weeks down the road I guess, but can't wait to get it in hand. Lelystad will release some pressure to, as I get to take a first look and hopefully try it out to.
I still got quite some work to do to get the pit flyable and therefore put it in use, but this sure put pressure on me and thats really when things get done.

[Trevor Hale]

  Cheers Ian,  Thanks for taking the time to get back to us with your conclusions..  I appreciate it immensely.

Trev

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

no worries trev.......
just a little update on progress.   the bride went out and instead going to the supermarket, i thought the time could be better served in the workshop 
so i hooked up the backlighting and connected the TQ to a network computer in my cockpit.   so, she gets home to find me sat in the workshop with all the lights off wearing a big grin.....see for yourself, pics of backlighting up
http://www.737ng.co.uk/help.htm
BTW, my punishment was to go to the supermarket this afternoon 
nothing until next week now, off to lelystad for the show......things to see if you are going
1. Revolution TQ
2. Mark Deponeo and Dave Holt at the 737NG booth with the Auto 737 systems logic (i'm in on this) 
3. Me, i'll be around the Flyware booth with Gert.
and Peter Dowson will be with us, so now's your chance to speak to the main man
have a great weekend chaps......
rgds ... ian