Beware of some payware airport add-ons

[Maurice]

Since my home airport is CYYZ, I bought the Blueprint simulations CYYZ airport scenery and I also bought the Ottawa airport scenery as well (Edit: I meant Montreal CYUL instead of Ottawa). Well, both airports look very nice until you start moving and I was then treated to a slide show. The frame rates jumped from about 24 to about 12 in both cases.

Not thinking right away that the new scenery was the problem, I spent hours trying to figure out what was going on. I thought my FSX PC was acting up until I tried one of my other payware airports and the frame rates went back to normal. Of course I should have tried that right away... duh!!! but I didn't and wasted a lot of time.

So I disabled both new airport sceneries and everything is back to normal. This is very strange because I have a few other very detailed airports such as Innsbruck, Geneva, Zurich and in these airports, the frame rates are lower as well but only by a small amount and as soon as you take off, all is back to normal.

In these 2 'bad' airports, even after taking off I was still 'enjoying' a slide show so I have no idea why this particular scenery is so hard on frame rates.

Has anybody else experienced really big loss of frame rates when adding payware airports?

Thanks,

Maurice

[matta757]

Mau,

Now, keep in mind that I am using FS9, but I have found that some sceneries lend themselves to better framerates than others.

For example, Fly-Tampa's sceneries are some of the best around, both quality and performance. Their version 3 of KBOS is one of my favorite sceneries PERIOD.

FSDreamteam's sceneries also perform fairly well on my machine (with the exception of KJFK and KORD, which both have tons of traffic and competing airports nearby, JFK being the worst but still not awful in FS9 depending on what you're looking at).

I also have several of the Blueprint Simulations sceneries, like KMSP and KDTW. I have found in my experiences that Blueprint's have some of the worst performance framerate wise. Not sure why. I also find their quality to be a bit lacking.

So to answer your question, yes I do believe that different companies have varying framerate performance. I don't know what, if anything, can be done to fix the differences.

Matt

[blueskydriver]

Having almost all of the FSDreamTeam sceneries, as well as Blue Print for KMSP, I agree with both of you. Blue Print is a killer on an otherwise insane FSX machine. FSDreamTeam KORD w/traffic 25-40, KMSP 12-18. So, Maurice it is just Blue Print in general...

Sadly, Blue Print could be much better if they stop making excuses for the poor work and get a new graphics person to improve their scenery. Gates dont work, misplaced support vehicles and lighting is not all that great at night. The only credit they get is they're one step above default...

BSD

[Maurice]

I guess I should have read one of their answers in the FAQ first:

"The ways to improve BluePrint Simulation sceneries' performance in FSX are quite simple :

1. Do not install the scenery
2.  .....


I was planning to buy many more of their titles but that is the end of that 

Thanks,

Maurice

[Maurice]

FSDreamTeam KORD w/traffic 25-40
BSD

I'm going to have to talk to you in June about that BSD.  I have a pretty insane machine too (I think) and the max I get at any major airport with FSDreamTeam software is just about 20-22.

So, very curious to know how you get up to 40 fps. Is that while you are still on the ground?

Maurice

[scorpioflyer]

Maurice

Thanks for the heads up on blueprint simulations. I am pilot in Montreal and was considering purchasing their CYUL addon for my sim, but after yours and BSD's experience with their payware, I'll turn my attention elsewhere. Thanks BSD as well.

Antonio

[Maurice]

Very wise of you Antonio. I found CYUL even worse than CYYZ for some reason.

Maurice

[scorpioflyer]

It kind of makes you wonder as to why some companies don't offer a " try before buy option". It's unfortunate because it looked like a very promising product.

[matta757]

It kind of makes you wonder as to why some companies don't offer a " try before buy option". It's unfortunate because it looked like a very promising product.

I'm going to venture to say that if companies like Blueprint had this option (as FSDreamteam does...) they would never sell any sceneries because people wouldn't bother paying for poor performance.

I will say however, as bad as MSP is, BluePrint's KDTW is better, albeit not great and certainly no FlyTampa, but better.

[blueskydriver]

Maurice

Besides having the 2600K OC to 4.3Ghz, I have a SSD with OS Win7 & a 10K RPM spin drive for FSX. The big thing is the RAM, it is the fastest lantency possible (more $). Also, the spin drive is setup through Disktrix Ultimate Defrag with FSX on the outer rings.

Furthermore, the FSX computer is only used for FSX and nothing else (except Xplane 10 that just got here and needs to be installed). Pretty much everything else is on different computers, so it is a clean system in regards to software. Heck, the inside gets cleaned every 90 days (actually all the computers get it).

Another addition is room cooling; run a portable AC at 61 degrees whenever flying and it sets right in front of the FSX computer, so it is a very cold system/room (like a Server room). It also has a double fan CPU water cooler, a 9inch fan, two five inch fans and one standard fan.

Finally, I do fly VatSim for every flight, so that and using SB shuts off the regular AI traffic. Do not use boats, ferries and such because it's all high in the sky flying anyway. And, with vehicle traffic, it is kept low to reduce its load on FPS. I just wish it could get the same frame rate that it does in the air...60-120 FPS depending on the weather from AS 2012.

BSD

[hexpope]

Hi guys, just to pop in here for a quick question. I know you have some really nice machines, but whats the power of your graphic cards regarding the resolution your using. I noticed alot of you are using tripple heads and using the other left over ports on your graphics card too, but my question is. What does your graphics have to render regarding the amount of pixels it has to push out ? it's a big factor no matter how fast the machine is.

Oh BTW, their EIDW / Dublin scenery looks dull and horrible compared to Eiresim's version.

[andarlite]

Since my home airport is CYYZ, I bought the Blueprint simulations CYYZ airport scenery and I also bought the Ottawa airport scenery as well (Edit: I meant Montreal CYUL instead of Ottawa). Well, both airports look very nice until you start moving and I was then treated to a slide show. The frame rates jumped from about 24 to about 12 in both cases.

Maurice

My home airport is also CYYZ and since there isn't much of a choice I also have the Blueprint CYYZ airport scenery. However, in my case the framerate only drops to about 17 (and that's only when I have the Level D 767 loaded up with the TH2G and 2 more additional monitors for cockpit panels). If I turn off the cockpit panels on the additional monitors so that it's just the TH2G, the framerate is around 22. That is with the planes sitting on a runway and also when taxing for takeoff. Once I'm in the air and if pointed in any direction away from downtown Toronto, frame rates start going up to 27-30.

This is the only Blueprint Simulation scenery I have so I can't really speak about their performance hit in general. All I can say is that so far from my experience with CYYZ, I don't have a problem with them.

My system is:  i920 OC to 4GHz, Win XP/64, 6Meg, FSX on Raptor HD, GTX570 and GTX275 video cards (both OC) etc. tuned exactly to NickN guide. Usual add-ons: GEX, UTX, FTX etc.

I'm also running with graphics at highest setting (extremely dense).

Not sure why you're seeing such a big performance drop.... but I'm counting my blessings now. 

Regards,
Henry

[Maurice]

Henry,

Maybe the answer is WinXP vs Windows 7, which is what I am using. The code they are using for Windows 7 may not be as optimized as it was for Win XP.

I too have a very high end system optimized with Nick`s settings as well, so I really do think it is a program issue instead of a system issue. I could be wrong though 

Maurice

[Maurice]

Hi guys, just to pop in here for a quick question. I know you have some really nice machines, but whats the power of your graphic cards regarding the resolution your using. I noticed alot of you are using tripple heads and using the other left over ports on your graphics card too, but my question is. What does your graphics have to render regarding the amount of pixels it has to push out ? it's a big factor no matter how fast the machine is.

I will soon start a new topic re. CPU vs GPU performance

Maurice

[Maurice]

Maurice

My home airport is also CYYZ and since there isn't much of a choice I also have the Blueprint CYYZ airport scenery. However, in my case the framerate only drops to about 17 (and that's only when I have the Level D 767 loaded up with the TH2G and 2 more additional monitors for cockpit panels). If I turn off the cockpit panels on the additional monitors so that it's just the TH2G, the framerate is around 22. That is with the planes sitting on a runway and also when taxing for takeoff. Once I'm in the air and if pointed in any direction away from downtown Toronto, frame rates start going up to 27-30.

Sorry Henry but I don't remember what your setup is like, so just curious if you are using 3 undocked windows in your TripleHead with 3 different views or just one view spread over 3 monitors or projectors?

Maurice

[Maurice]

Finally, I do fly VatSim for every flight, so that and using SB shuts off the regular AI traffic. Do not use boats, ferries and such because it's all high in the sky flying anyway.
BSD

If I get rid of all the traffic, my fps jump from 20-22 to between 32-36, so I should hurry up & fly with VatSim . But even with VatSim, there must be some traffic as well depending on where & when you fly. Does it not affect the frame rates in the same way as normal AI traffic does?

Maurice

[andarlite]

Sorry Henry but I don't remember what your setup is like, so just curious if you are using 3 undocked windows in your TripleHead with 3 different views or just one view spread over 3 monitors or projectors?

Maurice

Since I am using the TH2G with 3 monitors, I am using one view spread over the 3. As I recall you are using 3 undocked views. One thing I just thought of is that I also have 2 additional monitors for undocked panel views so that should be the equalivalent of your 3 undocked views. So I'm still not sure why you are getting a slideshow. Ahhhh ..... the wonders of FSX. 

Regards,
Henry

[Maurice]

Since I am using the TH2G with 3 monitors, I am using one view spread over the 3. As I recall you are using 3 undocked views. One thing I just thought of is that I also have 2 additional monitors for undocked panel views so that should be the equalivalent of your 3 undocked views. So I'm still not sure why you are getting a slideshow. Ahhhh ..... the wonders of FSX. 

Regards,
Henry

I really do not agree there Henry. Undocked panel views are nowhere near as CPU & graphics intensive as 3 undocked outside views because the scenery is always changing by huge amounts as opposed to small changes in static gauges.

If you don't agree, just try this & see. Use only the triplehead (no gauges) and open 2 outside views showing left & right views  & drag them to the outside monitors and see what happens to your frame rates.

It would also be very interesting to see what happens to your frame rates at CYYZ. My guess would be you will have similar results as I had but I would be very interested to see what you end up with.

Maurice

[hexpope]

@Maurice

IVAO has an MTL installer which basically installs every airline and VA known to man, after the software install. (MTL Installer does not use high res textures either so you should not see any FPS drop)

VATSIM on the other hand will only show you what is installed in the simobjects folder or Aircraft folder in FS9, but there is a program that will integrate FS traffic or what ever the name of the payware program to show up inside VATSIM.

Either way I prefer VATSIM over coverage, but one has have to have TrafficX or something installed along with another program (freeware) to see different airlines.

IVAO has it all in one package, plus the models are not super high res to reduce your FPS.

People with big cockpits should be flying online. It totally adds to the experience of everything.

I promise if your starting off, your going to be sweating in your cockpit when ATC is contacting and your thinking if your saying the right thing. I remember those days years ago. After a while it just becomes natural. Same as my GA flying and tests.

[Maurice]

VATSIM on the other hand will only show you what is installed in the simobjects folder or Aircraft folder in FS9, but there is a program that will integrate FS traffic or what ever the name of the payware program to show up inside VATSIM.

Either way I prefer VATSIM over coverage, but one has have to have TrafficX or something installed along with another program (freeware) to see different airlines.

I get that but what I was asking was what happens if you fly with Vatsim or whoever else and nobody is logged on at that time. I assume that you will not see any other aircrafts, even static ones. Correct?

Thanks,
Maurice

[hexpope]

Correct, but, vatsim is so big that there is always pilots and Atc online.  Just download a little stand alone app called vatspy, it will show you who, what and where is online. You'll see what I'm on about.  You don't need to be registered with vatsim etc to use the application. Check where ATC is online or basically where most pilots are and make a flightplan. You`ll see traffic on both your TCAS and in the simulator.

I hope that helps you understand.

http://www.metacraft.com/VATSpy/#download

And, if you go the IVAO route then theres an app called "The Eye", but you need to be registered to get into the download section.


Sent from my GT-I5500 using Tapatalk

[Maurice]

Correct, but, vatsim is so big that there is always pilots and Atc online.

Not quite true here at CYYZ. Right now, no pilots & no controllers and that is often the case. But anyway, I got my answer 

Thanks,

Maurice

[hexpope]

USA is kind of dead in the mornings during weekdays. Look again when its the evening time. Also alot happens over the weekend. It really gets busy at the weekend in all parts of the world.

[Maurice]

USA is kind of dead in the mornings during weekdays. Look again when its the evening time. Also alot happens over the weekend. It really gets busy at the weekend in all parts of the world.

The trouble is I am retired and when I want to fly, everybody else is out working. Life is tough I tell you

I may have to become a vampire like BSD 

Maurice

[andarlite]

I really do not agree there Henry. Undocked panel views are nowhere near as CPU & graphics intensive as 3 undocked outside views because the scenery is always changing by huge amounts as opposed to small changes in static gauges.

If you don't agree, just try this & see. Use only the triplehead (no gauges) and open 2 outside views showing left & right views  & drag them to the outside monitors and see what happens to your frame rates.

It would also be very interesting to see what happens to your frame rates at CYYZ. My guess would be you will have similar results as I had but I would be very interested to see what you end up with.

Maurice

Yes, you are probably correct Maurice. Don't know what I was thinking .... another senior moment.

I think I will try it out just to see what framerates I get ..... but it will have to be tonight as I am one of those guys who still have to work. 
I'll let you know what results I get.

Regards,
Henry