X-Plane 10 and the home cockpit user.

[blueskydriver]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for chiming in here because X10 is viable and I hope that some work in regards to the Sys cards has or will be done for it. You know I am very pro FDS, so the Sys cards being compliant for X10 would be a huge bonus for me...

JC

BSD

[Bob Reed]

I have not looked at FDS's SYS cards, but if they use FSUIPC they "should" be compatible for the most part. I will be placing an order for X-Plane in the next few days.

[XOrionFE]

Well, I took the plunge and ordered a copy of XP.   I am interested in seeing what I can make it do like you John using my projection and TH2GO.    I read a lot about it and seems that if you really want to duplicate the 3 undocked views we use today in FSX then the only real and true answer with XP is going to get expensive as if I read it correctly in their manual and on the forums you will need 3 copies running on 3 PCs.   That is a lot like a typical Wideview implementation in FSX only it is built into XP.   Of course you need a 4th and possibly a 5th for a full setup (Sim-A on one can maybe a 5th for other addons like SB and such).   What is not clear to me from their site is whether the XP licenses have to be the Pro version.    It states the Pro Version supports the warping.   So to me this means either get 3 copies of Pro and 3 high end computers plus one for Sim-A but would not need a warping package like Nthusim, Immersiview, or Warpalizer.     I wonder though if since we already have one of those packages we can use it under this model with just the regular XP global edition.

Questions abound....

Scott

[fsaviator]

After hearing from Matt and James last weekend, I'm also very interested in X-Plane...  I am following closely.  This may be the way for me to go once I get over to Germany and put my sim back together.  BSD, thanks for continuing to update as you go.

[Nat Crea]

Yep Scott, The PRO versionof XP10 has built in warping(blending? not sure).
I dont know the price of the PRO version, but Im sure 3 copies of NThusim,
SOL7, warpalizer etc + standard XP will be more economical.

I have played with XP10 and I like alot about it...BUT damn I hate deserlet airports.
Flying around FTX airport in FSX all day, its hard to get excited at MEL International in XP10

Where can I find a list of included "detailed" default airports in XPLANE10?

Nat

[Maurice]

if I read it correctly in their manual and on the forums you will need 3 copies running on 3 PCs.   That is a lot like a typical Wideview implementation in FSX only it is built into XP.   

If I understand this correctly, 3 copies running on 3 PCs makes it a very expensive proposition if all 3 PCs have to be high end computers much like with Wideview. If you use 3 high end PCs with Wideview & FSX, then you can get very high frame rates as well, so that pretty much defeats one of the big advantages of XP, namely better frame rates.

Am I right or did I miss something here?
Thanks,
Maurice

[XOrionFE]

If I understand this correctly, 3 copies running on 3 PCs makes it a very expensive proposition if all 3 PCs have to be high end computers much like with Wideview. If you use 3 high end PCs with Wideview & FSX, then you can get very high frame rates as well, so that pretty much defeats one of the big advantages of XP, namely better frame rates.

Am I right or did I miss something here?
Thanks,
Maurice

I think you are right Maurice but I think there are other reasons to go with X-Plane over FSX if we can get past the expense and without causing a debate about it my take on it (with no experience myself) is XP has more realistic flight characteristics which get closer to reality than FSX, XP is still moving forward with new development, it takes advantage of GPUs and more processor cores so as hardware gets better so will it more so than FSX can being GPU crippled,  great looking world without having to add a ton of addons, and I am sure there are some others.   

That said, our FSX setups are pretty sweet also.

Curiosity killed the cat though 

[rhysb]

Having tested xplane in a proper sim yes the flight models of fsx and xplane are like chalk and cheese xplane is bang on the money and fsx is way off. So if you want the most realistic flying sim then xplane is he only option. Fsx sure looks awesome when it's pimped up to the max though.

Thanks BSD for the info keep up the info,

PS to Really make xplane run like a dream get a mac!!

Also I know here in Europe Aerosoft have signed up to xplane and all their mega airports are now being released for xplane.

[Maurice]

Having tested xplane in a proper sim yes the flight models of fsx and xplane are like chalk and cheese xplane is bang on the money and fsx is way off. So if you want the most realistic flying sim then xplane is he only option.

That is probably quite true Ryhs but if you are not a type rated 737 pilot like most of us, how would we know the FSX flight model is not accurate? For me, the flight model is just about perfect since I do not know better.

I have got to know how the default FSX 800 behaves and it has become so familiar to me that I can land it every time with plenty of runway left with a totally dark instrument panel, which is something I would never have dared to do in a Cessna 172  .

For me the answer is simple; get to know how your particular airplane behaves and adapt to whatever it wants to do no matter what model you choose. These home sims will never be 100% accurate anyway, so take them them as they are.

Of course, for real 737,67,77 pilots, a more accurate flight model is a must and I can very well understand why CP would be a much better choice in that case.

Maurice

[jackpilot]

Hey Rhys.. good to know you still lurk here!

Just a note for both Mike and You

When you say XP more in tune with the real AC ...could you elaborate?
Not bashing FS but taking the opportunity to improve our Sims.
Jack

[fdspcos]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for chiming in here because X10 is viable and I hope that some work in regards to the Sys cards has or will be done for it. You know I am very pro FDS, so the Sys cards being compliant for X10 would be a huge bonus for me...

JC

BSD

With XFSUIPC avalable you can use the SYS boards now. Keep in mind that 90% of what you are connecting to is on the Avionics Software though... Any left over items can be interfaced with one of many ways our boards drive software... No lack of options with the SYS boards and interfaceIT software.
Peter

[XOrionFE]

John, it would be cool if you could post a video of your triple head setup with XP so far.....HINT HINT :-)

Scott

[rhysb]

Yeah still very much here guys! I'm reading everyday just not posting as much as I used too that's all!
Maurice you have hit it on the nose really in that if you have only ever flown on a pc sim then you wouldn't know the difference between fsx and xplane and like you I would still fly fsx everyday (as I do) as it gives me more than xplane can right now in terms of scenery aircraft etc

Maurice is right again in that if I was type rating or really wanted to test my flying skills I would fly xplane all day long as this would give me the feelings and quirks of real flying.

Jack, I won't go into too much depth and don't want to change the subject of the post but in simple terms if you first took the list of real world environments or specific flying procedures that are not simulated in fsx and xplane the list for fsx would we way way longer! One example for those that have xplane, go fly in icing conditions in a 737 in both sims then you will see the difference! I will try and put a video together for you all.

I'm not knocking fsx here as I love it! It took me years to let go of fs9 but when I went to fsx I was so happy and to be honest I would love to move to xplane as can't stand Microsoft especially windows but for now fsx makes me smile everytime I fly the pmdg 737 or jetstream over Europe with all the vfr scenery etc!

[jackpilot]

I Know that some "abnormals" are just not good enough with FS, Stalls, one engine out, etc.
Was more curious about performance, ground roll, climb , flaps retraction sched, behaviour at FLs, some like that?
Still with FS9 and enjoying it, not knocking at all.
Cheers
JP

[rhysb]

Jack, yes xplane is fairly real in ground roll in the fact you have to guide your aircraft down the runway more as i feel in fsx you can line it up open the throttles and leave it run! and rudder use is much more pronounced as well, flaps and washout is certainly more noticeable. You would think at first it's exaggerated beyond what is normal it's just it is more normal.

In response to this post I spend a few hours this evening flying the xplane 10 demo with the x737 model which is an awesome 737 model and completely free so those that want to try it can get the demo and the x737 for free. And one thing which you will notice is that if you fly by hand  rather than autopilot and FD you will be trimming and adjusting the aircraft quite a lot which is very very real. Your hands are always on the controls, it teaches you to stay well ahead of your aircraft.

Sloping runways and night lighting are awesome in xp10 as well! Braking the aircraft down a downhill taxiway is fun!

Think I might do what BSD is doing and have a full test with it and report here as well if BSD doesn't mind!

[XOrionFE]

I plan the same.  Have a copy ordered.   Darnit.....why oh why did I have to see James and Matt's presentations and decide to go home and try the demo.   Now I just know it is going to cost me dearly!

I am now thinking 3 new computers.....2 more copies of Xplane, More Nthusim or Warpalizer licenses.....OMG...what the hell am I thinking....

Scott

[rhysb]

Scott, just spend the money on one awesome mac with an ati top end card it will run x-plane on 3 screens like you wouldn't believe!

[Bob Reed]

Scott, just spend the money on one awesome mac with an ati top end card it will run x-plane on 3 screens like you wouldn't believe!

I don't think that will work with all the hardware he needs to use.

[vcimmino]

XP10 has a great future in my opinion for the builders and more generically for the enthusiasts if there will be more support for hardware and xuipc will become a constantly updated tool like fsuipc is.

I read many people here pointing to the lack of airports and so on. FTX products are jewels for FSX, but they still cover a small area for US and no Europe at all. There are plenty of airports for XP and all of free, just search in the xplane related forums. The majority of airports for FS9 and FSX can be converted to XPlane with minor or no issues, look at:

http://marginal.org.uk/x-planescenery/tools.html

Do you also like to fly VFR? XP is fully georeferenced and use openstreetmap database that has a free use license too. This means that you can import for your usage everything is in openstreemap in your XPlane installation. Millions of buildings, reference points, obstacles are already there, you just need to convert them for Xplane usage and add them to the simulator like you would do for an FSX addon. There aren't the reference points you need or you know they are there? Simply add them yourself in OSM and then they'll be available for you and the whole world of it's users. And the OSM community has grown in an incredible way. In two years all the Europe. US and most populated area around the world should be completely covered.

The OSM to XP converting tool's website:
http://osm2xp.com/

There are plenty of aircrafts for free with very good quality, more to come, and Xplane has generally a better feeling of what a real aircraft does. There is a nice developed G1000 add-on too for those that are taking a license and want to have training with it:

http://www.flythissim.com/FTS1000.aspx

Last and not latest is that Xplane is updated and improved constantly and following users' suggestions, something that MS never did. I still love FSX and is my primary simulator but my opinion is that XP10 will be a winner, it's only a matter of time and it will take it's own share in the builders' world, and even more now since the flop of Microsoft Flight that simply discarded that there's still an huge home cockpit builder's community around the world.

[Maurice]

And one thing which you will notice is that if you fly by hand  rather than autopilot and FD you will be trimming and adjusting the aircraft quite a lot which is very very real. Your hands are always on the controls, it teaches you to stay well ahead of your aircraft.

Funny you would say that Rhys. Everyone who flew my simulator manually (especially Jack) was unhappy with the fact that it is very hard to get the plane to a steady attitude or speed without constantly trimming it. They were all blaming themselves for not being able to achieve a stabilized approach so this part at least is actually quite real in FSX based on what you say about trimming a real aircraft.

Also during takeoffs, I certainly need to use the rudder to keep the plane on the center line if there is any kind of side wind. What you say about FSX applies if there is no wind at all and in that case, the plane does not require much if any rudder input.

Having said that, I have absolutely no doubt that XP is much more realistic in many other aspects, so certainly not downplaying the many other XP benefits 

Maurice

[macisaac]

I figured this would be a good time to chime in.   I have been working on my 737-300 for about 3 years and have just moved to X-Plane 10 and absolutely love it.   I started the project with version 9.something and finally took the plunge about a month ago.  All existing hardware and software worked without issue. I had to take the heavily modified xpfreeware 737-300 and update it in planemaker (x-plane's built in aircraft building tool) due to slow spool up on the engines when the throttle was advanced.  Sadly my input configuration preferences from 9 did not carry over, so I had to assign all, and I mean ALL inputs again.  Took about 20 minutes and a few Amstel Lights.   Because the plugin SDK has remained the same from 9 to 10, all of my teensy++ boards worked perfectly.  I had my friend, former FedEx 727 driver, over for a quick hop to KBOS from KPHL, and he hated it.  Said it reminded him of his physicals and he was expecting something to fail the whole flight.  I'll take that as a complement.   For me, the best experience with 10 has been the clouds.   Taxing to active and looking out the window, you really get the feeling you know what your going to go thru.  The weather and cloud system is 10 is not a random generated system as in 9, but you can see the storm on the horizon and know that it's moving and you will have to fly around it or above it and you'll have to make that dissuasion soon.  Or when your at altitude and all you see below you is a purple moon lit layer of clouds, but as you decent thru and below, the storm that you are now in won't  break until 1200ft.  You see and "feel" the change,  far more realistic than in the past.  Some other points of interest, 10 is multi core capable with the CPU's.   9  only used on core, so on my Mac Pro, I am now using all 4 cores of the xeons.  Performance has improved from the previous version.  You don't see that everyday with computers.  All in all I am very pleased with the upgrade.  I did have to purchase 4 copies for each of the machines that operated an instrument panel or the external views, but well worth it.   Running my hardware on Macs givers me stability, performance, worry free operation and network simplicity.  Running X-Plane gives me a current, modern, stable, supported and realistic simulator. I think its a wonderful combination.

Cheers!

[MLeavy737]

I had to take the heavily modified xpfreeware 737-300 and update it in planemaker (x-plane's built in aircraft building tool) due to slow spool up on the engines when the throttle was advanced. 

Cheers!

Just curious where the slow spool up was? in what phase? takeoff, up at altitude or what? Not sure if you could change where that slow spool takes effect but at times the engines on a 737 do spool up pretty slow.. Especially the older models like the 300's and 500's on takeoff.. from idle to about 45% not only do they spool up slow but they also rarely spool up together at the same rate! Thats why you cant just ram the things forward on takeoff..You could find yourself in the grass pretty quick!  Need to let them spool up to 40% first. Once there together then you can hit TOGA and they will spool up ok..

Oh and up at altitude they are a bit slow spooling btw.. Just something to consider i guess..

Mike L

[macisaac]

Th spool up time from idle was most noticeable,  but even on landings, I could feel the hesitation if I needed just a bit more power.  It was different from what it had been in X-Plane 9.   I also noticed that at idle, the engines were putting out too much power and unless I was on a hill or had the parking brake on,  I would get acceleration.  I knew something was up, but after making changes in PlaneMaker and then not happy with those results, I put everything back the way I had it and it all went back to normal.  I went down to the cockpit last night to do some fine tuning and looking for anything else that might be wrong.  I was able to get the engine just about right.  I have a pair of CFM56-3B's   The start time is about 45 seconds per engine and advancing from 40% N1 to about 89% -92% for takeoff  is about 6 seconds.  Thats about right for a -300.  I know I am modeling an early -300 with steam gauges, but I have a later -300,-400's  CFM56-3B's.  It's my plane, if I want the nice engines, I get the nice engines.  I did discover an issue with my pressurization system.   My VVI gauge is unresponsive.  The Cabin Alt gauge is stuck at 8000ft, though the Cabin PSI needle does operate correctly.  All other aspect of the system operate fine.  It seems that the cabin is always pressurized for 8000ft and thats why those two needles don't move and the PSI one does.  I have to dive deeper and see if its an issue with the teensy plugin or an issue with x-plane 10.    I'll talk to the author of the plugin and see if he has any ideas.  Whats the point in simulating a pressurization system failure if you can't see the those two needles swap places!   I love this hobby!

Cheers

[fordgt40]

X-plane, not a good start

Had to reinstall after crashes. Still problems, after pausing the frame rate reduces to circa .5, then freezes and then crashes to desktop. Vanilla installation, no addons. I checked the Beta box and am using version 10.05r1 - have reported it to X-plane. Will advise response

David

[Bob Reed]

David, did you try the demo first? Just curious.....