This could be the last straw...

[Maurice]

... that broke the proverbial camel's back and this is NOT an April's fool joke.

Last Friday, my optometrist who is also a commercial pilot came to fly my simulator and for a change, everything worked perfectly, well almost perfectly. After our session, I shut down everything and did not power up again until today.

I was then greeted with the ever friendly message that the OS could not be found and the question of whether I wanted to try a system restore. No panic yet as this had happened several times recently after I rebuilt my system (more on that later). So once again, I loaded the drivers for my SSD drives and the system re-booted almost normally after fixing all kinds of disk errors.

I then forced a chkdsk at the next start-up to fix any additional disk corruption if possible. This worked normally and Windows 7 booted normally after not finding any more disk errors when chkdsk ran on start-up.

So far so good but then, I wanted to check the event viewer and right clicked on Computer and selected 'Manage' only to get a 'Catastrophic error' message. After further checks, I discovered that none of my shortcuts to programs or files are working anymore. I can open the files but not from the shortcuts.

Now, I am sure this is fixable without major surgery but I am not going to try & fix this problem and the reason is that this was a disaster waiting to happen after I rebuilt my FSX system.

So, just a bit of history. About 3 months ago, I decided to wipe my FSX system and start over since I was experiencing occasional FSX crashes (FSX would just stop working). It usually happened on my first flight of the day and usually worked the rest of day with no further crashes.

After spending weeks re-building & re-tuning everything, I got it to the point where everything looked good and I did not have a single FSX crash for several weeks after that. However, what I did have instead were the odd O.S. crash or BSDs but never when FSX was running. In hindsight, FSX crashes were better than O.S. crashes and I should have left things alone.

Every time an O.S. crash happened, it was because of disk errors which showed up in the event viewer and every time, I had to run a file system check (chkdsk /f) and all looked OK afterwards. Also, at other times, on boot up, I would get a message that Windows did not shutdown properly the last time even though it had been shut down properly.

I  knew this was going to eventually bite me in the ass and this happened today. So now, I am faced with a big decision since my FSX disk is an OCZ 240 GB RevoDrive 2 PCI-Express SSD which cost me around $700.00. I strongly suspect the disk is bad and there is really no point in restoring my FSX system from a system image I created very recently if the drive is defective.

Maybe the gods are mad at me for even thinking about P3D or X-Plane but whatever happens, I have pledged to myself that this will be my last attempt at re-building my system. I'm not sure right now what I am going to do, meaning do I spend another 700 dollars on another SSD drive, do I just reformat the drive and restore my current backup image or do I reformat the drive and re-install everything one more time?

Whatever route I take, this will be my last attempt at having a stable FSX system. I just cannot bear the thought of continuing this never ending quest to have a system that I can actually fly without biting my nails & wondering when the next crash will happen. At least, that's how I feel right now.

Now might actually be a good time to wipe everything & try P3D but if my main disk drive is bad, this will just be one more exercise in frustration. I don't know if there are any good SSD drive diagnostics out there, but I haven't found one yet.

I'm not spending another $700.00 dollars on a drive unless I can be almost 100% sure my current drive is defective. Since today is actually my birthday, maybe this is a sign to follow a different path. Only question is... what path? 

Maurice

[Rodney]

Mau,
Perhaps a good backup like what Time-Line does for MAC's might work better for you.  I don't know what is available in the PC world anymore.  That way the worst case is the time it takes to restore.  Worst case scenario for me is I loose something from within the last hour.  Does not effect my overhead either.  Sorry. I don't trust M$ snapshot system.  But given you are using a M$ OS, I would build the system and have everyting running/patched, then clone that to another same sized drive in case of emergencies.  But I feel you pain!

[blueskydriver]

Hey Maurice,

I'll try to keep this short.

First, you said you had the "disk not found error". Well, about 10-14 days ago I had the same issue and ran chkdsk, as well as other things to figure out what went wrong.

What I found was somehow the BIOS hard drive detections were changed, but I did not change them. So, I set them back for the right detections and it was all fine. A couple days later, the same thing happen again and I did the same thing to fix it, but this time another computer did the exact same thing (the first computer is a WinXP and the second is Win7).

Here is the kicker, both times these things happened was after getting on the CB site for a while, all about the same time the problems with the website were going on. A couple other people were saying similar things (I am sure those post where they spoke about it are here somewhere). I thought, could a virus or trojan gotten through, and then it boucned onto certain computers. For example, both of the computers had no anti-virus running at the time (they do now) and both got hit. So, somehow I am thinking you might have been hit. Yes, I know it sounds odd, but that could be the reason for the drive detection problem.

Second, you were having all these problems with FSX, so you changed it and got OS problems. If it's just FSX problems alone, I can tell you it is from the tweaks you might be doing to FSX, the Graphics Card, or anything related in the area of tweaking for FSX in general. I did some tweaks and had the same issues in the past. Did you try unpluging everything sim hardware related when had all the FSX problems, and then try run FSX straight (call it cold-meaning no hardware except keyboard or mouse)? Likely, you could be having issues with drivers from hardware and/or things to do with the device manager/USB conflicts. Heck, it could be as simple as FSUIPC...

I think you can look at the logs, but they might not tell everything that could be going on. For one reason or another there is something causing the problems for you that I think is coming from related hardware and software related to FSX, but not FSX itself. What about using the Win7 disks itself and run a repair from it to see what happens.

As for your shortcuts, that is only a data file and not exactly meaning your hard drive is screwed. If some type of virus is going on and it is hitting your root, you might need to run anti-virus (AVG) and then try the Win7 Disc repair method. Although, you might not get on the internet from your FSX machine, but you do access your FSX machine from other computers that do, so something could have jumped over. Or, what have you installed that your not sure about regarding its background...you know like an FSX free download or something like that?

Finally, I am just thinking of things I have seen in the past. That is what taught me to write everything down in a record book. So, no matter what I do, I can go back and read over what has been installed. In addition, I make restore points before everything I install, as well as back up to an external drive automatically. Takes extra time, but saves the heartache you're feeling today.

By the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

BSD

[Maurice]

Unfortunately Rodney, creating backups will not help if I have a bad drive. Backup crap and you get back crap 

Once I have a reliable system, then I can worry about backing it up. The current backup image I have was made after I experienced several blue screens so I don't really trust it anyway.

So, for now, my only real options are to format & start over or replace the drive first. Cheaper to re-format first and hope that the formatting might detect & de-allocate bad sectors like it does when formatting a regular hard drive but I have no idea if that happens with SSD drives. My hunch is that it doesn't but time will tell.

Thanks,

Maurice

[jackpilot]

Happy Birthday Mau,

[Bob Reed]

I don't say too much here BUT...... I would not invest 1 dime on SSD drives right now. I said this in another forum and was picked apart, but I rest my case........ They are simply not tested enough for me data and the more I look the more of these stories I see.

[Maurice]

Thanks for the many suggestions BSD but I'm almost 100% sure the problems were created by a bad drive.

I wasn't going to go into details but a bit more history will clarify why I think the drive is bad.

When I first installed the O.S. & FSX, I ran FSX default flight on a single screen with no tweaks and no add-ons just to see what kind of frame rates I was getting. This is when I got my first "Microsoft Flight Simulator stopped working" message and it happened several times after that. I should have stopped right there & then but I foolishly decided to ignore the crashes and continue. No chance of any virus at that time.

Now, I have 2 SSD drives, one 80GB and one 240GB. On my first FSX install, I installed the OS on the 80GB drive and FSX on the 240GB drive as recommended by many people. Since I had these FSX crashes, I decided to do things differently the second time and I installed the OS & FSX on the same 240GB drive and left the 80GB for my downloads. I also added a new 2 TB regular ATA drive where I do my backups.

And this is why the 240 GB drive is a prime suspect. FSX alone on the 240GB drive was crashing but the OS alone on the 80GB drive was solid.

With both FSX & the OS on the same 240GB drive, the OS is now crashing. The only common thing is the 240GB drive and since loading both OS & FSX would likely have used different sectors of the drive than if FSX was alone in that drive, it must be the drive as far as I can imagine.

It sounds very logical to me. The first sectors of the drive would be occupied by the first program you install and the first installed program is the one that is crashing in both cases.

Do you see anything wrong wit my logic?

Thanks,
Maurice

[Maurice]

I don't say too much here BUT...... I would not invest 1 dime on SSD drives right now. I said this in another forum and was picked apart, but I rest my case........ They are simply not tested enough for me data and the more I look the more of these stories I see.

You certainly could be right BOB. But I do LOVE the fact there is no need to de-fragment an SSD drive. Is that worth $700.00? Probably not, so I may not go back to SSD's.

Thanks,

Maurice

[Garys]

Hi Mau,

The drive may very well be toast, which you should still be able to RMA if its under warranty, but before reformatting or sending it back make sure you have the latest bios installed for your motherboard. These Revo drives work differently than a standard ssd drive and alot of issues that you are seeing have been related to problems with the pcie controller on the motherboards being the issue and required a bios update to fix. This effected all the MB manufactures. Also check that you have the latest firmware and driver updates for your drive.

Any firmware, driver and motherboard compatability lists should be on the OCZ site for the drive and of course the latest bios at your Motherboards website. One last thing I would do is run memtest and do a diognostic test of the memory installed in your system as well. Bad memory can cause some of the symptoms you see . As the problem relates to nothing mechanical in your sytem its the only diognostics
you can do.

Edit.. Just to add Mau, look at this page and follow the important notes and the notes specific to each motherboard. These things arent plug and play unfortunately.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/displaypage.php?name=revo_ibis_moboguide

Gary

[Trevor Hale]

Mau, I am so sorry to hear your having issues.  Please don't give up..  Your a star.

[Maurice]

Hi Gary,

Before I rebuilt my FSX PC about 3 months ago, the first thing I did was to update all the drivers. So unless they made significant changes a few weeks ago, I would say that is not the problem.

I also ran memory diags that run on power up before the OS is loaded with no problems at all & I ran Hot CPU tester pro for several hours with no problems as well as Prime95 for about half an hour. CPU got to about 82 degrees and I stopped the Prime95 test but there were no errors either.

So I still think the SSD drive is the culprit. I have pretty much decided to format the drive and load P3D and play with it for a while minus any add-ons. I should know very fast if the OS is acting up because it acted up very soon after I re-built my system,

If the system is stable but I'm not impressed with P3D, then I will re-load FSX without add-ons as well and run bare for a few weeks. At first sign of a crash, SSD goes in the garbage (warranty has expired I'm sure).

And then, I will re-evaluate my options...re-build with a regular fast drive or who knows? That will depend on my tolerance level at that time but my patience is running thinner than a razor blade these days (sorry Trev  .

But for now at least, full steam ahead. One day at a time, just like in Cokeaholics anonymous 

Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Maurice,

If you haven't reformatted yet, try this. Pull out your ram sticks and switch their positions making sure they're firmly in place. It's just one last thing to try please... Why?

Two months ago one of the PM clients was doing all the same things that you described. I thought for sure it was a bad drive. I tried everything, including testeing it cold with no hardware, but it kept telling me I had no OS. Last ditch effort I pull the ram, switch them around and reseated firmly. It fixed it! Computer has been fine since. What Gary said made me remember about this computer...

It will only take just a couple mintues to check.

BSD

[Trevor Hale]

Mau,  If it gets that bad that you give up...  I will personally come down and reload everything for you.  I will just bring me a box of beer, and a 40 of something to get me through the night and make it happen. 

Quitting is not allowed LOL

[Kennair]

Hi Maurice, firstly Happy Birthday!!!!!

Sorry to hear you're having so much difficulty and it sounds like your on the money, either bad drive or bad memory, and I would certainly be re-installing on a new or different drive but I wouldn't complicate things even more by installing P3D at this stage, stick with what you know till you sort out the errors.  P3D holds lots of promise but you might just be adding complexity where its not warranted at this stage.

Just my 2c worth but good luck with whatever you do.

Ken.

[Maurice]

BSD, good idea and I will definitely do that, but I still need to format the drive first anyway since my current O.S. is corrupted right now. So restoring a backup image that was made while the system was still 'working' is no longer optional, and therefore no real reason not to format the drive first. This time I will do a full format instead of the quick format I did the first time I built my system.

Ken, good point as well but my idea about starting with P3D instead of FSX was only because if I re-install FSX after replacing any hardware and everything works OK, there is no way in this green earth that I would ever contemplate trying P3D no matter how good P3D might be. It's really now or never and if I install it first and it does not meet my expectations, then no big deal, just re-format and install FSX which is something I will do at least one more time anyway.

Trev buddy, very generous offer and if I took you up on it, I would supply the case of 24 (Diet Coke only of course as I would not want you to be drunk while messing up with my sytem  .  But if it ever comes to the point where I really, really decide to quit, I will start tearing things apart before I tell anyone that I'm quitting so there will be no going back. I came very close to quitting many, many times in the past several years and I waited until the feeling passed but my tolerance level for frustration caused by recurring sim problems is getting smaller & smaller after each birthday and I am rapidly approaching the 'Grumpy Old Men' stage of my life  . 

Anyway, many, many thanks to everybody who responded for all your suggestions. This is greatly appreciated no matter what I do or what the outcome is.

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

I feel for you Maurice.   I think if this happened to me right now I would have to walk away from the sim for a month.....

This did get me to start thinking again about a DR solution for my systems and I think I am going to buy a really big USB Drive and Acronis Unversal Restore software and start making images as I really would not want to go through all the work I have done before.   Therefore your disaster could have some good come out of it as it will make us all think about our own systems and what it would take to rebuild them.

I wish you the best of luck with the rebuild.   

Scott

[Trevor Hale]

LOL.  Well on the other hand, I could trade you projects for a bit.  While you go back to the early stages of wiring and building, I could have the fun of flying.  Cause I bet the frustration of crashes on the system is way better then the "Wiring" stage LOL.

And I know how much you LOVE wiring LOL.  Good luck my friend, and the 24 of Diet Coke would be just fine.

Trev

[Maurice]

This did get me to start thinking again about a DR solution for my systems and I think I am going to buy a really big USB Drive and Acronis Unversal Restore software and start making images as I really would not want to go through all the work I have done before.

Scott

The bad thing about any backup solutions is that they really only work as long as you do a restore to the same type of hardware. I had anticipated problems so I have a backup image of my FSX drive (several backup images actually on a 2TB drive) but I can't use them if I go back to a regular SATA drive since the OS will be expecting a different set of drivers than the ones I use for my SSD drive.

Since I'm not an IT genius, trying to fix the OS so that it recognizes the new hardware is slightly beyond my current set of IT skills. I know it can be done because we used to do that where I last worked when people upgraded their laptops. There was a way to restore an image to new hardware and do a Windows repair to replace all the old drivers with current drivers but it was a rather lengthy & somewhat complicated procedure. I will probably try that anyway but I'm not too optimistic that it will work. Definitely worth a shot though since the only driver change will be for the disk drive

Anyway, before you choose a backup solution, you may want to find out what they say about restoring to a new platform/hardware. Maybe things have progressed a lot and that it is much easier to do that now, so worth asking about it.

Thanks for good wishes,

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

Fortunately for me I am in the IT business and do this type of thing for a living.   Acronis Universal Restore allows recovery to dissimilar hardware.   

Scott

[XOrionFE]

Also there is Acronis True Image 2012 which is new and for the home user.   You have to pay a little extra for the plus version which includes restorability to dissimiliar hardware but worth it and overall a little cheaper than the Universal restore product that is for businesses.

Scott

[Maurice]

Fortunately for me I am in the IT business and do this type of thing for a living.   Acronis Universal Restore allows recovery to dissimilar hardware.   

Scott

Very interesting! Do you have any idea about the cost? By the way, I just found out that there is a 2 or 3 year warranty on OCZ SSD drives, so I just submitted an RMA request and we'll see if they are willing to replace it.

In the meantime then, no point doing anything so good R&R sounds good to me right now even though I am retired and R&R is usually the norm. Poor me! 

Thanks,

Maurice

[Maurice]

Scott, I answered before your second reply. Thanks for the info and the price sounds quite reasonable ($39.99)

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

In the meantime then, no point doing anything so good R&R sounds good to me right now even though I am retired and R&R is usually the norm. Poor me! 

Thanks,

Maurice

I heard retirement has its ups and downs.   You get up when you want to and then you lie down when you want to :-)

[Maurice]

You got it Scott. And I love it  . Now, if only my prostate would leave me alone at night   

Maurice

[Boeing Skunk Works]

Happy belated Birthday Maurice. Sorry to hear of your drive problems.