Flashing CDU's

[blueskydriver]

On a somewhat related issue, I have my IO cards located inside the Throttle Assy and if for whatever reason it gets bumped a little, the USB would drop out and I'd lose all controls to the Throttle Assy and my yoke/pedals (those are on the same card). Now, I thought it was the bumping for the longest time; however, as it turns out, the problem came from static electricity and not having the Throttle Assy/Cockpit properly grounded.

I remembered this by finding a note of advice from Rob that I wrote down years before too ground these items to an Earth Ground/outlet ground. So, I used a 3 prong to a 2 prong plug with a ground wire and wired the Throttle Assy body and Cockpit to this ground wire, and that solved the problem once and for all...

Finally, I know this is not the issue with your CDU's, but they're attached to the metal of the MIP which is not grounded, plus the Power Supplies for the CDU's are 2 prong types w/o ground; therefore, the other electrical signals coming off the MIP (from other items attached) could be causing an out of sync phasing from those items and causing the flasing. If the MIP were grounded, that might stop the bleed over electricity, and then stop the flashing.

John

[Jetcos]

Funny how this all goes around and nobody knows how things are really wired in each sim project???

Sam's CDU's are wired to a separate 12V dedicated power supply, powering 12V devices.  No 2 prong wall adapter etc.

But everyone seems to have the answers.

The "flashing" happens with Remote Access as well. If it was the actual CDU I wouldn't be seeing the "flash" on my screen. Which leads me to a videocard or driver  issue.

I think Brian's is one issue and Sam's is a different one.

Just saying....

[blueskydriver]

Hi Steve,

Yes, things are wired differently for each sim I agree, but I wasn't suggesting to give an/the answer to either Brian's or Sam's issues, I was just describing my thoughts on grounding the metal within my sim, and how grounding fixes stray electrical voltage like those caused by static or a bare metal making contact elsewhere.

I have seen flashing computer monitor displays before and it could be a mulititude of reasons for it too happen. Yet, in most cases, it takes a process of elimination to find out what the real reason is...much like it did for my static issues.

Finally, I re-read my post and I noticed that when a I spoke about CDU's in the last paragraph, I meant too say my CDU's are attached to the metal of the MIP and I have 2 prong power supplies or wall warts.... My apologies for implying it was those guys CDU's.

John

[jskibo]

Sam's flashes white, not black or off which one would associated with a loss of power.  They don't "synch" flash either as one will flash then the other.

I offered to bring down my CDU when I am in Florida at our Clearwater plant again.

[Jetcos]

Again, it is unlikely the actual CDU's are the problem. They could easily be tested on a laptop to check them. If it was the CDU, I would not be seeing the flash when I log in remotely. I see the screen on my screen flash white as well. It is something else but the question is what is it? It would take some time to isolate it piece by piece.

Biggest problem is it never did it here. Only once Sam connected things up at home. Somethings changed as well. PC issues for one.

[brianwilliamson]

Plugpacks are known for producing noise which radiates into all sorts of areas. A hand wave over the top of a radiating RF source will change the amount and direction of that radiation. Earthing sometimes will stop the radiation and sometimetimes it will turn the part that has been earthed into a radiating antenna.
So it is hard to track down and even harder to eliminate.
Best practise is to use good power supplies from a well regulated transformer, not cheap Plugpacks from some of the international suppliers.
I will be changing all my plug packs to dedicated power supplies which eliminates the problem before it starts, as it may not be the plugpack on one device that causes problems but problems from other plugpacks.
It is certain that the changing of the plugpacks to a good power source, on the MCDU's cured the problem.
Regards...........Brian W.

[Jetcos]

All makes sense Brian. Seen that with monitors that needed a plate added and "cheap" PC speakers and the magnetic creating havoc as well. Lots of different things can upset a perfectly planned project. Isolating them is the challenge.

No "plug packs" in Sam's simulator. All connected to power supplies in this case.

[fdspcos]

@Sam,
Just concerned about the lack of attention span out here. People read "problem" and blanket an entire product line. Luckily here, we are surrounded by a lot of talent..
For our end, we don't hide from issues and we have no reason to do anything but make sure people are ok with the product.
Steve is my best expert as he hears it all.. My preference is for people to try him first as he has "seen it all" usually and can help people zone in on issues.
There are hundreds of Cdus out here... Very few issues luckily.
Bottom line is trying everything we can to help.
There are more forums than FDS guys and that makes it tricky to be helpful.
In this case, several posters offering erroneous or non-related info, then a different issue..
I am more concerned about the fact you have "flashing Cdus" and really want to get that sorted Sam. No reason for that issue if we dial into that and try some things...
My bet is it is something small causing a big issue.
Again though, I really trust Steve's input as he sees so much out here.
Just want happy customers.
Peter

[brianwilliamson]

SAM:
        Could you try one test for me to see if it makes any difference. Get another power supply and put a connector on it and plug into one of your CDU's with nothing else connected to that power supply.

Regards..........Brian W.

[Sam Llorca]

Hello Brian, yes I will try it like that and I'll let you know via pm

[fdspcos]

Another quick test if I may Sam. Try to isolate the CDUs. Perhaps pull one, try running the other. Reverse and try.
Aso worth taking the Cdus out and running them without touching the dzus rails...
Quite a few ways to troubleshoot and pin down the primary issue or remove items from the list of issues.
Steve did mention that your Cdus are not using wall plug type supplies.
Your trainer has high quality commercial power supplies.
My bet is with some basic troubleshooting you can isolate the problem to a specific scenario..
Process of elimination. Once we confirm we can sort the correction needed.
I have Cdus here on standby if we can eliminate the other elements.

Peter

[Sam Llorca]

Ok Peter, I will do that actually I'm planning to isolate the CDU's from the rails this coming weekend like Brian suggested, I don't have the time to do this testing at night like before cause of the baby but for sure I will try every suggestion and ideas, I did tried a alternate power supply by itself for each CDU's like Steve recommended, I updated the video card drivers, the CDU's do not flash out of the trainer connected to a separate computer like Maurice suggested, I did tried a different video card, I'm sure is NOT the hardware!!! But thank you for your suggestion, is very important to us to have different ideas and support from a knowledgeable source.

[Jetcos]

Thanks Sam


My biggest issue in Sam's problem is the following:

Why do I see the flash when I log in remotely? If it was electrical or hardware to the VGA screen why would I see the flash on my screen? An electrical issue should only effect the actual hardware. Hard to believe that the issue would show up on my screen all the way up here.

Make sense?

[Nat Crea]

I get ya Steve...

If you see the flashes whilst remotely logged in,  my bet it has to be a result of Computer/Video Card/Drivers.
Are the two CDU's attached to the one video card (assuming a single Sim-A Comp with 3 dual output cards?) NVidia Cards?

Nat

[Bob Reed]

If Steve is seeing this remotely, it is not a hardware issue. Could be a computer issue, but I am more inclined to think it is a software issue as even a driver issue should not show up remotely. Interesting to say the least.

[Maurice]

I removed my post as I made some wrong assumptions. Will resend soon

Maurice

[Maurice]

If Steve is seeing this remotely, it is not a hardware issue. Could be a computer issue, but I am more inclined to think it is a software issue as even a driver issue should not show up remotely. Interesting to say the least.

I am assuming that when Steve says he sees the white flash, he has loaded a software version of the CDU and it is running on the same PC that currently runs the actual physical CDUs. Am I correct?

If this is correct, then it very well still could be a hardware issue. What Steve is seeing is a snapshot of what the video card is sending to whatever screen is connected to that PC. Even if that PC has no screen(s) or CDUs attached to it, the video card is still sending information to the screen. On Steve's remote access PC, the remote access software takes a snapshot of the physical or virtual screen on the actual remote PC and transmits the snapshot to Steve's PC. It is pretty much like if the remote access software took a picture of the screen and e-mailed it to Steve.

So, when Steve sees a flash, he is seeing what the video card is sending to the software CDU that Steve has loaded in that same PC. So if the VGA signal is sending a white flash, you would also see the white flash on your remote screen because they are virtually the same.

So as far as I understand this, the actual physical CDUs are definitely not the problem. So what does it leave?
I believe Sam mentioned that he did change the video card & drivers that drive both CDUs. If that is the case, then it is really beginning to look like a motherboard issue to me. But before tackling that one, every other possible cause should be eliminated first.

One other thing to suspect is the big motors driving the motion platform. These can generate electrical interference which might affect a video card. But since they did not create problems at FDS, the only difference is that the power for the motors is now generated by Diesel generators. Could these be introducing some electrical noise somewhere? If the sim can run without turning the generators for the motion platform on, do the CDUs still flash?

Maurice

[Maurice]

Sam,

If I were you, this is what I would do to get rid of this problem without messing with anything and risking to damage something else in the process.

You said that you tried what I had suggested and connected the CDU to a separate PC and it did not flash. Did you leave the CDU(s) in place as I meant or did you physically remove the CDU and attached it to another PC?

If you left the CDUs in place and just connected them to a different PC, why not leave that PC there and presto the problem is solved. This can be a low end PC with any video card that has 2 VGA outputs.

If on the other hand, you had removed the CDUs, then this was not a good test since it did not take electrical interference in the sim into account. I would redo the test if I were you but do it this way: Just connect a VGA & USB cable to the new test PC and connect them to the CDU while the CDU is still in its proper location. Edit: You can even use the existing CDU cables and just connect them  to the new PC.

If the flashes still disappear, then the problem is obvious. Either the video card, drivers, CPU and/or motherboard are causing these flashes and the problems have nothing to do with any electrical interference.

Again, for the cost of a low end PC and low end video card, the problem is gone.
As I said, this is what I would do but I understand why you would prefer not adding another PC to the mix. However, if the choice ends up being replacing a motherboard or adding another PC, I think the choice should be obvious to anyone 

Maurice

[fdspcos]

Process of elimination for sure.
One example of a "CDU Problem" we saw in the past....
Customer receives a CDU.. Plugs it in.. Fires up .. sets the screen...
Half the screen is "Yellowish".... Customer not too pleased.. (email to me to prove!)...
I throw some ideas back.. ask about trying other computers etc..
Turns out... Problem was the Video card was not "Seated" properly in the Motherboard...
Personally? I never would have thought to even look there... But he pushed it in and presto.. CDU works fine..
I worked over 12 years in Car Audio before FDS and in that business ( I was with Alpine and then Pioneer) I usually got handed the troubled customers..
Often it was "Engine Noise" or pops in the system. While I was never a "Hands on" guy" (I love my brother for this as you all know!) I did learn to systematically weed out problems and help get them resolved. It always started with a "minimal" setup and then adding things  back in.
I was remembering how much our Cockpits are like this. Sometimes it is not one item but a collection of things or events that create a problem.
Peter

[jskibo]

Mau,

Take the generator and motion platform motors out of the possibilities.  Our first flight had niether turned on and the flashing was happeneing.

John

[Maurice]

Mau,

Take the generator and motion platform motors out of the possibilities.  Our first flight had niether turned on and the flashing was happeneing.

John

That was a long shot anyway but it's good that neither are an issue as it wouldn't be easy to fix. Doesn't leave too many likely culprits on the table now.

Maurice

[Sam Llorca]

Hi guys I just want to say that I really appreciate all your suggestions, I'm testing the units in small steps to actually see where the problem is (have only weekends to work on it.) that's why is taking me so long,  I did removed the CDU's from the trainer and tested them on a bench with another PC, no flash, also I tested them with the FSX PC outside the trainer and no flash, like John JSkibo said we can rule the electric motor out, they flash even with them off, is not the power supply, I changed the USB cables for a shielded one, there are not too many other causes out there anymore, I'm thinking is drivers issues with the video card and the low resolution setting, but before I need to isolate the units from the rails, If that doesn't work them is time to roll back to the old video drivers or get a separate PC (not my preference), but thank you again to all of you, Cheers.