WARPALIZER BEWARE!

[Sam Llorca]

Hello members,

If you own a copy of Warpalizer blending software and want to use it on Prepar3D v2 is going to cost you an additional 150.00 euros for the upgrade.

Cheers,

[HarryZ]

Hi Sam,

And if you owned a previous version of P3D you have to fully pay to purchase the new 2.0 version.  I don't think it's unreasonable for the Warpalizer people (like most software companies these days)  to charge for work they have to do in order to make their software compliant with a new version of another company's software. In the case of Warpalizer, the dongle also has to be re-programmed to make it work with the new P3D v2. 

The days when companies do work for nothing in keeping up with technology are gone.  If the companies don't charge for this work, they will usually be gone in time.  The cost for personal Warpalizer software is a fraction of what commercial  establishments have to pay.

I know we as high end simmers like to pay as little as possible for our hobby and when we have to fork out additional money to keep updated, we often grumble.  But being in the flight simulation software business the costs to us that the public does not see are continually going up and up.  And in the end, it's the customer who ends up paying.

[Garys]

Hello Sam,

I also found this out when I wanted to upgrade my warpalizer software last year. My email exchanges were contrary to Olav's public reply in that post in that in order to upgrade to the latest version I had to pay 150 euros each dongle (3 + server setup) hence the reason for that post.

You can read the post here
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3320.msg26206#msg26206

I believe that if the owner of the company comes here to defend his product and business practice with an open statement like that, then he should stay true to his word. Unfortunately I see that is not the case.

Gary

[Sam Llorca]

I understand, but I also understand that We, high end simmers are the main source for this companies to survive, I'm not against a fee for new program, I'm defending our right to upgrade once you pay full price for a product,  I don't see Microsoft charging us for any Windows update, just to give an example, besides that, there a lot of other simulation companies out there that will not charge us for an update, don't want to mention any names, but I can mention a few I work with that have spend hundred of hours upgrading their software, not a simple download, a very sophisticated software that take hours to upgrade and reinstall, and every time we need them they're there for us at no charge,With this post I don't want to make anybody upset but I want simmers to be aware of the fact that you will pay extra if you want to use this software. 

[Garys]

In my email exchanges with the folks at warpalizer, I received the same response as Harry posted above.  (Despite what Harry wrote in the linked post, there was never a miss understanding between warpalizer and myself)

None of us are against having to pay a fee for upgrades. That is not the issue. However instead of having to pay the 150 euro per dongle each and every time,  I suggested that registered owners pay a reasonably priced fee for a yearly subscription service, much the same as we do for anti virus software.

I still firmly believe that when Olav makes a very clear and concise statement to our community that all upgrades are free (except for the price of shipping) Then he and the warpalizer company should stay honorable to its word to all owners of the warpalizer software in this community irrespective of the platform being used. Its called integrity.

Gary

[Nat Crea]

Sorry Harry...but Immersaview and FlyElise (the two that I use) continually upgrade to keep up to date with Sim Evolution....any company that didn't would be crazy and arrogant.
Just my opinion.

Nat

[Sam Llorca]

I agree 100% with you Nat, and when you try to work with the company by waiting months for an agreed service visit (not free), and not satisfied after service is done, instead you get sarcastic and arrogant e-mails, I think is wrong (again, let me be clear, my opinion) as for myself I'm done, my father always told me, "son the day you feel not welcome someplace is time to move on" so I'm moving on!  I already found very promising leads for image blending software. Guys, thank you for your needed support and let's not drag this post any longer, the message has been send.

[Garys]

The message has been sent but obviously not heard. It was exactly 12 months ago that I made that initial post to avoid Warpalizer for the exact same reason. The only way this will change is if more people speak up about what is happening. Let the posts continue and eventually everyone will see the truth.

There are questions that need to be answered and I would like to see Olav or Harry join the discussion and explain why this is still happening despite what has been publicly stated to our community. They owe it to everyone of their customers here.

Gary

[HarryZ]

I understand, but I also understand that We, high end simmers are the main source for this companies to survive

I know that many high end simmers think this but it couldn't be any farther from fact.  High end simmers are but a small fraction of the flight simulation business.  When MS ended their Aces division many high end simmers couldn't understand why they wouldn't continue the product because of "all the high end simmers" that supported FS X.  In reality, this market didn't make any difference to MS at all because it was so tiny. I've mentioned before on the forum that the FS add-on industry that caters to the high end simmers struggle month to month because there just isn't enough money in it to be really profitable.  I'm part of the high end simmers group and would like it to be different but it simply isn't!

The people who run Warpalizer have an upgrade policy in effect for the gaming market.  Some people don't like it and feel it is too expensive and thus suggest you avoid it.  I sell the product as a re-seller in Canada and also sell the commercial version to flight simulation companies as well as other commercial application companies.  I'm told by a number of customers that they have tried the other blending software and that Warpalizer is better.  I have little knowledge of the other products so I can only go by what these customers tell me.

Warpalizer concentrates on the commercial aspect of the business and I've seen some of the huge, multi projector, large screen applications that have been installed.  One only need to visit their website and see some of the commercial applications that exist today. The results are quite amazing and of course there is a huge cost to keep the product growing and updated.  The Warpalizer people are anything but arrogant but everyone has their own opinion and entitled to express it.  Like in any business, you try and satisfy most of your customers but in reality it doesn't always work out.

[fordgt40]

Whether "high end simmers" are a small fraction of the customer base is not the issue here. It appears that Warpalizer management have broken a clear promise made earlier on this forum. I would expect distributors to support the concern being expressed here.

David

[Bob Reed]

HarryZ is 1000% correct here. We (simmers) think we are this huge group of users that should be heard. In reality we are so tinny that not many real businesses care about us (in a business sense) and the ones that start up to cater to us simply can not survive. Simple fact the numbers of sim builders is too small for the number of companies trying to survive in this niche hobby. Have you ever wondered why so many companies come and go? Another reason for companies failing is that once a sim builder lays out all the money for the hardware or software they want, that is it. No more spending money on that part of the sim. In other words if you build a good product, you are building yourself right out of business! Here is an example, Sam has bought his lovely 737 simulator from FDS. So Sam now has it if FDS had to depend on Sam to stay in business, they would be done. Why? Sam has his sim and will take care of it for as long as he has it. He will not be buying another and FDS has nothing more to sell. Yes Sam may need a few parts but FDS would not survive on those sales. See the problem? Sims are not like cars there are not 1000s of people building them. I am pretty sure world wide there are fewer then 5000 of us. That is a very small pool of customers to pull from....

[Bob Reed]

And this brings to mind another piece of software that we all love and use in one way or another. FSUIPC. Remember when using it in in the early days of FS if you purchase it, you will never have to purchase it again! Then came FSX and guess what, woops there is another $50.00 charge. I for years did not purchase it because I felt I should not have to. And when I would cry about it some folks started saying I should just buy it. Well I have. The reasoning given for the charge was that FSX was not the same program. Well Prepar3D v2 is not the same software as FSX so you can use the same explanation. The folks at Warpalizer have a right to be compensated for their work to make the software work in a different program. I think that maybe they should have said this would be the case but they did not so you have a choice. You can pay them the price or switch software. Either way you will pay to switch.  Warpalizer is good software so is it worth it to stay using their software or will you be happier learning new software? The choice is yours.

[HarryZ]

Whether "high end simmers" are a small fraction of the customer base is not the issue here. It appears that Warpalizer management have broken a clear promise made earlier on this forum. I would expect distributors to support the concern being expressed here.

David

I won't go into what the Warpalizer sales head office said, didn't say, thought what they said and what others have said, the fact remains that if you own a gamer version of the program and the application you are using it for has changed dramatically (as in P3D V2)  you will have to pay a fee for the updated software and perhaps dongle reprogramming.

Believe me, I read and hear what the readers here are saying. I've been on your side of the fence with other companies. But also being in the business world, you have to recoup your costs and make a profit in the business  you are in or you won't be in business for long.  I know that there are simmers out there that will not purchase the Warpalizer software for their own reasons and that is their decision to make.  But I can assure you that we aren't trying to gouge the customer or ignore their comments. 

[fordgt40]

Harry

Thanks for the reply, however, Olav Sandnes clearly stated on this forum "All updates of the Warpalizer is free og charge." and subsequently re-affirmed that this applied to Gamer versions. Pretty unequivocal to me. I have no axe to grind, other than to expect people to keep to their word, not unreasonable?

David

[HarryZ]

Harry

Thanks for the reply, however, Olav Sandnes clearly stated on this forum "All updates of the Warpalizer is free og charge." and subsequently re-affirmed that this applied to Gamer versions. Pretty unequivocal to me. I have no axe to grind, other than to expect people to keep to their word, not unreasonable?

David

David,

Guess that would be a question to ask  Olav to clarify.

[fordgt40]

Harry

Agreed 

David

[Sam Llorca]

Guys, is simple, be honest and keep your word.

[Garys]

Bob, what are you talking about? The issue at hand is not how we alone are the group that keeps this company alive.  Its only about the broken promise made by warpalizer management to all of us here at Cockpitbuilders.com

1.  "Unfortuneately it might be required to change the dongle algorithms in connections with releases of new versions. In such cases, the dongle needs to be reprogrammed if the user wants to get the latest updates.  We do the reprogramming free of charge but the user has to cover the shipping cost"

2. "I am one of the founders of Univisual Technologies and I am the one that makes this kind of policy in the company, so I know what is correct.  If you are a gamer, the upgrade is free of charge, you only pay the shipment. Full stop."

This sales statement also strongly implies that should you purchase Warpalizer then you will have no problem running fS9/fSX/Prepar3d on Directx and Xplane 9/10.

"NB: For those of you enthusiasts that are considering Warpalizer please note that the latest version 3.0.1 supports both DirectX and OpenGL.  Version 3.0.1 also includes our latest functions: Deep Black Overlap and Auto Line Up."

If this was true why would us builders still be required to send in our dongles to be reprogrammed at a cost of 150euro when

A: FS9/FSX and Prepar3D are all DirectX platforms
B: It was stated in two separate posts that all updates/reprogramming/upgrades are free

This is not a vendetta. There is a real problem here that needs to be solved.

Gary

[Bob Reed]

Bob, what are you talking about? The issue at hand is not how we alone are the group that keeps this company alive.  Its only about the broken promise made by warpalizer management to all of us here at Cockpitbuilders.com

1.  "Unfortuneately it might be required to change the dongle algorithms in connections with releases of new versions. In such cases, the dongle needs to be reprogrammed if the user wants to get the latest updates.  We do the reprogramming free of charge but the user has to cover the shipping cost"

2. "I am one of the founders of Univisual Technologies and I am the one that makes this kind of policy in the company, so I know what is correct.  If you are a gamer, the upgrade is free of charge, you only pay the shipment. Full stop."

This sales statement also strongly implies that should you purchase Warpalizer then you will have no problem running fS9/fSX/Prepar3d on Directx and Xplane 9/10.

"NB: For those of you enthusiasts that are considering Warpalizer please note that the latest version 3.0.1 supports both DirectX and OpenGL.  Version 3.0.1 also includes our latest functions: Deep Black Overlap and Auto Line Up."

If this was true why would us builders still be required to send in our dongles to be reprogrammed at a cost of 150euro when

A: FS9/FSX and Prepar3D are all DirectX platforms
B: It was stated in two separate posts that all updates/reprogramming/upgrades are free

This is not a vendetta. There is a real problem here that needs to be solved.

Gary

What I am talking about is the fact the there seems to be some of us that think some one owes us something.. I say that is wrong thinking. Should they have made an announcement that it was going to cost to upgrade yes.... Did they keep their word.. No and like FSUIPC there will be folks that continue to use them.

[iwik]

Sam,
Maybe you should test the waters. In that post Gary linked to Olav second comment specifically referred to Gamer. So reply to his email quoting what he said and then see what his reply is.
Les

[Trevor Hale]

Guys. Let's not ruin friendships of what someone said or didn't say. I agree with some here that what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

If the owner says buy once good for life they should stand by that comment. In any case let not come to blows here.

Try to resolve this issue with the company and let's see what happens.

If warpalizer doesn't stand by their comments. Then let us know and we can make our own conclusions from that and learn from it.

Maybe it isn't the software to purchase. Maybe it is. Who knows. I don't own the software so I can't comment.

But how would this hobby be if companies like fa2phidgets or FDS started chagrin is for software updates. We would all be broke in no time.

I hope you all can resolve this before everyone gets pissed off with each other.

Remember. We are a family like community here.

[Sam Llorca]

Hi Les,
I did test the water for a couple of days before I even mention anything on this forum, to my surprise, I get a sarcastic and irresponsible e-mail back, that was the reason of my post, not to mention jokes about it like is funny, there is no need to make your customer look ridiculous or make fun of them, gamer or commercial, my only intention is to warn others about his behavior and the lack of professionalism and interest to come true on his promise to an existing customer, the quality of the software is not in question here Harry, If his reply would have been like, hey Sam it takes this much effort and expense and whatever and ask to cover his cost I would have said yes, is not the money part, is not if you are a gamer or not, is the fact that I was told one thing by the company at the time of the purchase and get treated like a choice later on, there is the problem!


And yes Bob, your comments really surprises me sometimes.

Agree with you Trev!

[iwik]

Thanks for the reply Sam,
You reported it as your experience and opinion as others are allowed to do also.
So lets agree to differ and enjoy that we now have more choices than ever.
Regards
Les

[Bob Reed]

Hi Les,
I did test the water for a couple of days before I even mention anything on this forum, to my surprise, I get a sarcastic and irresponsible e-mail back, that was the reason of my post, not to mention jokes about it like is funny, there is no need to make your customer look ridiculous or make fun of them, gamer or commercial, my only intention is to warn others about his behavior and the lack of professionalism and interest to come true on his promise to an existing customer, the quality of the software is not in question here Harry, If his reply would have been like, hey Sam it takes this much effort and expense and whatever and ask to cover his cost I would have said yes, is not the money part, is not if you are a gamer or not, is the fact that I was told one thing by the company at the time of the purchase and get treated like a choice later on, there is the problem!


And yes Bob, your comments really surprises me sometimes.

Agree with you Trev!

Hi Sam. My remarks where not directed at you. You had direct contact with these folks and have a right to say how you feel and to let folks know what is going on. That is what this board is all about.

[tennyson]

I don't care for any of the banter, but I applaud the warning.

I am at the stage of looking for edge blending software for my  triple projector 220 degree sim.

Thanx to this post, I won't be spending my money on warpalizer.

I've had bad service from sim companies and voiced my opinion and given fair warning to other prospective customers, so it works!

After all, I bet that's what was intended by the post.

Thanx mate, I hope we can continue to warn of other vendors who don't want our dollars.
For every one of those, there is some company willing to go the extra mile, no matter how tiny the community is or how small the revenue stream!!



Frank Cooper