usb DRIVERS and updates HELP!

[Mach7]

Rob,

Here is the SIOC_INI file (notepad text).

-Jim

John,

I am gathering the hub and motherboard information right now...will be my next post

-Jim

[Mach7]

Sorry Rob I sent the txt file twice...

John,

the hubs and motherboard are as follows

one is a  Trendnet 7-Port High Speed, and the other is a Dynex 4 port USB 2.0 hi-speed hub. The dynex is the hub that connects the 3 OC  boards and the one Bodnar board

My motherboard is an M2N-SLI deluxe motherboard...in fact here are all the computer specs in case there is some information I am missing;

OCZ gold XTC PC2-6400 4 GB DDR2-800
AMD athlon 64 x 2 dual core 6000+ socket AM2
PNY XLR8 9800GT 1024 video car
M2N-SLI Deluxe Motheroard
EG465p-VE power supply

[Mach7]

Rob and John,

Will check back with you tomorrow afternoon. Got to get to bed, 4am check in and the weather is supposed to be lousy tomorrow.

I appreciate all the information and help...hopefully I will be able to eliminate this lag in the engine gauges.

Possibly John is correct as well that these USB hubs need to be changed out regardless...they are not the most expensive.

Still wondering why OC would use a USB 1.0 protocol as opposed to a 2.0 (?)

-Jim

[Mach7]

One more thought before I go.....

Is there any chance the Servo motor boards inside the gauge could be suspect. That is to say I am using Hitec servo motors from Servocity. I am using the servo motor, and control board from the servo but not the servo`s own potentiometer. Instead I have connected that board to the actual gauges potentiometer.

[blueskydriver]

Jim,

Okay, here is the link to your motherboard manual:

http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/pdf/Asus_M2N-SLI-DELUXE_Manual.pdf

You need to read page 1-12, as well as page 4-30. On 1-12 it reads that your motherboard only supports 2.0 and 1.1. Now, you say that you have the OC stuff plugged into the Dynex 4 port 2.0 hub, and Rob says the since OC is at 1.0 or even 1.1 it should work. However, you need to go to the BIOS see page 4-30 and enable the Legacy USB which will turn 1.1 on for your computer, as by default it is turned off (it will be the last option on page 4-30.

As to your question about the mix-match of parts, you say it does work correctly sometimes, so that too me suggest it's a data bottleneck occuring somewhere downstream of the cards in the USB channel. The other thought I have is what are the potentiometer from gauges voltage requirements? You're only getting 5 volts from the USB Servos card per servo output, and correct me if I am wrong, but aren't real gauges using 24volt? This is where Rob comes in, as he is the expert at interfacing real aircraft items.

My point is, if you need 24 volts and you're only getting 5 volts, they could move, but really slow or if at all. Still, since it does work sometimes it could be either hubs or power requirements...

John

[Mach7]

John,

Thanks for the response and the information. I will read the text as per the motherboard manual and make the adjustments accordingly, then update both of you guys on any change. (Will get home tomorrow nite so will do that then and email you).

As for the aircraft instruments, the gauge itself does not require any power as the servo motor board is just getting information from the gauges actual potentiometer, which is somewhat similar to the supplied pot in the Hitec servo, but allows a greater latitude of degrees.

I don`t think gauge power is an issue as most of the gauges work perfectly with no issues whatsoever.

I am inclined to agree with the USB data `botttleneck`theory.

-jim

[Mach7]

Hello guys,

Here is an update.

I went in to the computer's BIOS to the USB settings and the "legacy" USB function for 1.0 and 1.1 was already enabled.

-Jim

[blueskydriver]

Hi Jim,

At this point, I think it's either the hubs or what Rob is leaning towards...the SIOC coding. However, the thing that's perplexing is how it works sometimes and then not...

Since you found the BIOS location for the USB legacy, try it with it disabled. I know that sounds backwards, but I have seen a lot of weird things when dealing with computers.

One last thing, how long are your USB cables from the computer to the hubs and from the hubs to the devices? There are length limitations when dealing with USB.

John

PS If you have an antivirus program turned on, turn it off and then try it...

[Mach7]

Hello John,

I will try and 'disable' the BIOS legacy setting and see what happens.

Also you might be on to something regarding the hubs or the cable distance. The cables are 6 feet in length.

Also I have disabled the anti-virus some time ago as I thought it might be a contributing problem.

-Jim

[727737Nut]

Jim,
What happens when you run just one servo card?  Then add the 2nd? Then add the 3rd?  What are your FPS on the sim?   

USB cable length, well all I will say is I have one 15' long and one 12' long with no issues.  I also have 4 hubs full and 6 ports full on my PC.  Thats a total of 20 usb devices on one PC, no disconnects, no data loss, and lots of back feeding of voltage and gnd's LOL   

This is my  from a former OC user.  Step away, sell, regroup and go to arduino. Why?  Way cheaper, powerful, Ethernet, and darn near trouble free.  I'll admit right now that for the time being, i still have an OC usb outputs card, and you know what, it cause random issues in my overhead from poor circuit design.  Whwn I bulb test, some of my switches go nuts. 

Rob
Rob

[Mach7]

Rob,

I think I am going to have to agree with you, when I first hooked up my OC servo boards, I used the same 5 volt power supply to operate the cards (all three) and also the same supply to illuminate the internal gauge lighting.

The gauges worked fine until I turned on the gauge lighting and some of the gauges went nuts, and actually increased beyond there pot limit(s) causing me to have to disasemble the gauge and physically move the needle back into the pot authority limits.

I will have to look into the Arduino product. Do you think it will be a big hassle to change over?

For now I am thinking my cheap USB hubs might be the contributing factor ...

-Jim

[Mach7]

Rob, (and John),

Also disconnected two of the three OC boards and the remaining gauges, (specifically the engine 2 TGT gauge), ran smoothly, with no lag or freeze issues.

So basically the board is OK, it has to be a data issue..

So the question remains why...however will upgrading my USB hubs make any difference?

-jim

[KyleH]

Rob,

...
I will have to look into the Arduino product. Do you think it will be a big hassle to change over?

....

-Jim

If you've been able to learn how to program a SIOC script....you can learn how to program in c.

[Mach7]

This is true KyleH, however it took a lot of help form the outside to get to this point....and I am not 100 percent sure how it all works but it does.

A follow up question for all;

I am thinking about moving my 836 bondar board usb connection to the other USB hub...(the one that has all the USB 2.0 devices), and allow the other Hub to output to the three SIOC OC boards only....

My question is this...if I move my USB plug from one port to another...is it going to screw up my bodnar board offsets for throttle, ns steering, flight controls etc etc?...or will the computer just recognize the port and adjust accordingly.

In other words, will I have to reset all the Fs9 offsets?

-Jim

[KyleH]

If windows sees it as a joystick, then yes you will need to redo your axis/button settings.

[Mach7]

Another update,

I moved the 836x bodnar board connection to the other USB hub and left the three outputs to the SIOC OC boards on the other hub alone.

Started the engines and found the exact same lag and freeze occured in engine 2 TGT gauge, and even a bit in the engine 1 TGT gauge.

So....back to square one again.

[blueskydriver]

I think your issue has something too do with the OC card power supply voltage now. You had the problem in the past where you had to adjust the needles and such. Currently, one will freeze and the other will lag behind, but if you do just one gauge it works. I think your OC power supply has the voltage but not enough amps.

Where did you get the power supply? What is the power ratings for it? Are you sure it is 5 volts and not less, and how many amps does it put out? Please post a pic of it showing the model and ratings...

John

[Mach7]

Hello John,

The power supply is an OMRON S8JX model. It delivers 5 volts at 20 amps.

I don't think the power supply is suspect

-Jim

[blueskydriver]

Hi Jim,

Okay, is your voltage adjuster turned on? See link and *5:

https://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/1989/specification.html

You've tried so many things thus far, but too me, the time you had everything all hooked up to one power supply and turned the lights on, causing the servo motors to go beyond their limits says it was too much power. I do a lot of RC stuff and when something like this hapoens it means you likely destroyed the controllers in the servos.

However, since you can hook up one gauge and it works, that makes me think otherwise. Therefore, how about this; hook up each gauge seperately to see if all three work individually. Next, hook up two at a time and see if two out of three will in fact work. If they don't then you need too get out a multimeter and test the amps and voltage load from the card.

I once fried an OC board by applying too much voltage to it, so if your power supply over applied voltage to the card it could've done something too it. Earlier, I thought bottleneck of the data, but like Rob says, he has way more devices hooked up without any issues. Pretty much the same with my stuff as well; I have a mulitude of devices running on the USB channels. Your cable length is well within limitations, so it's not that.

My suggestion is try a different power supply, as you've already tried the hubs. Also, try plugging the USB Hubs cable to PC USB port to a different port on the PC. Basically, you need too eliminate one thing at a time or also called "creative trubleshooting"...lol.

John

[iwik]

Jim,
What happens with no lights running and just the gauges?. Think you need to
minimize what you are driving. If it works ok then I would suggest getting a separate
P/S to drive lights and then see what happens.
It seems to me you have two problems, one of lag and things get screwed up when lights work.

Les

[Mach7]

Hello John,

The (omrn) power supply reads 4.97 volts. I too checked the supply and even went so far to ensure this supply is dedicated to the OC boards and nothing else.

I also have tried unplugging the USB input to 1 board, then two boards to see how the board with the engine 2 tgt gauge reacts. When two out of three boards are 'on line' there is no lag or hesitation, however once you connect the third board, the engine 2 tgt gauge will freeze and lag.

I am pretty sure it is a data transfer problem because when you go to start engine 2, all engine gauges relating to that engine will run up normally with engine 2 tgt gauge lying "dormant" until all the other gauges have reached there limits...then the engine 2 will run normally to its stabilized value.

If you now increase power very slowly, engine 2 tgt will follow, however if you move the engine throttle fast, the gauge will again freeze for a couple of seconds and move once the other gauges have reached there value.

I should point out that, while engine 2 tgt displays the visible lag and freeze, sometimes fuel flow 4 will hesitate a bit...but only sometimes.

Again, I have 3 OC cards;

Card 1 controls all 4 N1 gauges and engine 1 and 2 tgt gauges

Card 2 controls engine 3 and 4 tgt, and all 4 N2 gauges.

Card 3 controls all 4 fuel flow gauges and one flap indicator gauge.

Now....if you disconnect one of the cards, say card 3 that outputs to fuel flows 1 thru 4, and the flap indicator , then all lag and freeze disappears.

All lag and freeze also disappears if you disconnect card 2, (card 2 outputs to tgt 3 and 4, and N2's 1 thru 4). 

It seems to me it is definitely a data speed bottleneck.

[Mach7]

 @iwik,

The lights are no longer an issue as they run off a separate power supply. I have ensured that the OC cards have a dedicated 5 volt supply.

[blueskydriver]

Jim,

Did you try this yet:

In the hub shown in the attached pic, you have the Bodnar card and the 3 OC Cards, unplug the Bodnar card and operate sim...what happens now with the OC Gauges?

If everything is still the same, unplug everything from the other hub, plug in OCCards/Gauges, operate sim...what happens?

If you do this, it will screw up your assignments, so you will have too adjust them. Also, you might need a keyboard to control the throttle in order to rev up the engines and etc, if your throttle gets disconnected.

Doing this will tell you if it's the hub that actually has the problem.

John

[Mach7]

John,

I did that this afternoon as well. I unplugged the bondar board USB output from the hub and connected it to the other hub, leaving only the 3 OC board outputs connected to the respective hub.

After re-programming some assignments I started the engines, however the problem remained with no improvement.

[iwik]

Jim,
Something that should be considered is the 'In Rush" current. 16 motors starting up
could be quite high. Can you please power the 3rd card from a separate power supply
and see what happens.
Les