More (or similar) 836x overheat issues

[KyleH]

Jim,

Have you done up any wiring diagrams for how all your switches/LED's etc are interfaced to the computer?

[iwik]

Jim,
If you can reproduce the problem then why don't you disconnect each
analogue input one by one and see if the problems goes and returns when reconnected.
other than that you could purchase one of Leo's cheapest i/f and do as i suggested earlier.
Les

[Mach7]

Hello Les.

I actually did that and could not get it to reproduce the problem due to the fact it seemed intermittent.

When the sim is in operation it will not fault...most likely due to the fact the pots are being excercised.

Now that i realize the sim needs to be stationary. For this to happen..that is when fs9 is first booted up. I know now what to look for and have begun the pot isolation process all over again.

Jim

[Mach7]

Hello my Friends

Just an update for you.

(And i will apologize in advance if i am repeating myself)

From my perspective the problem has to be with a pot. Bodnar electronics is in agreement as the chip set that is heating is the designated input for the analog connections.

So...for 4 hours last night and 5 hours today i tried to duplicate the problem by isolating each pot individually with no success. At the end all pots were reconnected and ran an additional 2 hours with no mysterious engine starts or overheat issues.

So here are some additional questions as i continue this process.

My 836x board is plugged directly into the computer USB port..so with this in mind is there any computer usb setting i might be overlooking?

Second, I Think we are in agreement that the only thing causing this occational overheat would either be a bad pot or a shorted wire somewhere in the pot connection network as a bad switch or short on a switch wire would not display in this manner.

So ..can a pot work perfectly fine for hours on end...then decide to all of a sudden short and cause problems?

My pots in question have been checked up and down for ohms values and i cannot see any issues...also its not like these pots have a lot of flight time on them...as they are practically new.

Although i have checked the wiring i have decided to install fresh leads to and from the board to each pot.

I will then connect each 5 volt pot wire to a quick disconnect push terminal so when the overheat happens again i will be in a position to  disconnect one of the inputs and see if the board cools. If it does not then i will start the process all over again and by reconnecting that pot and disconnecting the next in line following the subsequent overheat.

I will do this until the solution is found.

So for now i will continue to update as the troubkeshooting progresses.

[blueskydriver]

Hey Jim,

The fact all this happened on your last computer and your new one, I still think it is the firmware... Look Here:

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=180

Doesn't this apply to your card?

John

[blueskydriver]

Remember firmware is not a USB driver for your PC and the card, firmware is for the card only, and you might want to update this or just reinstall the one it uses. Follow the link above...

John

[Mach7]

Thanks John.

I was not even aware that firmware was required, I assumed just plug and play. I have never downloaded any firmware for the board in the past.

Do you think this may be an issue?

-Jim

[Mach7]

John,

This is also on that same page at the bottom with respect to the card;

"The PCB has a standard USB B type connector for connection to PC or Mac. No drivers are required. Plug it in and use straight away"

[KyleH]

Thanks John.

I was not even aware that firmware was required, I assumed just plug and play. I have never downloaded any firmware for the board in the past.

Do you think this may be an issue?

-Jim

Jim,

Firmware would have been installed at the factory. This is a firmware update. And yes, a bug in firmware can be an issue if it's setting up the ports wrong.

[iwik]

Jim,
I thought you had just bought a new Controller recently. If so it would have had the new firmware.
As suggested by Kyleh, definitely update firmware, i am surprised
Leo never suggested that.
Les

[Mach7]

Just tried to update the firmware as per Leo's tutorial....

It basically dumped all of my settings and now my VHF nav heads are not recognized!!

I tried system restore but that did no good.

I beginning to thing building a sim is an exercise in patience...and to be honest the frustration is outweighing any amount of joy that is derived.

I think I am going to have to step back a bit and reassess my hobbies

Will update shortly

[Mach7]

So....is there anyway to reverse the bootloader mode!!

I can see two files in bootloader and I am assuming one is my 836x and the other my vhf 1 nav head. as they are labled B100 and b401.

Leo had sent me a vhf exe file ...which is the firmware to run both heads, and I tried to download it again however vhf 1 is still unrecognized...it acutally says it 'cannot find'.

[Mach7]

Sorry for the previous frustration in my email(s)/../.


Ok...so i successfully downloaded version 1 for the 836x and it again works !...(not sure if it is going to overheat or not..but right now just trying to get back to the point I initially started).

I was able to determine which device was in the bootloader by unplugging both nav heads and this left me with the 836x (as the loader re identifys these devices with numerics.

So now, only my VHF nav 1 will not work or be recognized due to the fact (i am assuming) it is in the bootloader waiting for a firmware update which I do not have.

So....how does one remove a device from the bootloader??

below is a link to the flash firmware I downloaded and currently used to update the 836x.

When Leo sent me the modified nav heads he sent a small firmware file lablelled VHF_NAV.exe

There is no bin file that I can foresee having access to as my initial thought was to just place it back in the file.

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=page&id=5

[blueskydriver]

Jim,

I do not see VHF Nav heads listed on Leo's site, so is this somethng special you ordered? As for 0836x Card, it sounds like you did the firmware update correctly and it works without overheating as far as you know...

However, I am not sure about this, but now that you're talking about other items used in conjunction with 0836x beyond simple switches, buttons and leds being plugged into the card, I really don't know how that could play into the overheat issues.

You've tried two different cards (burning one up), used two different computers, switched from USB hub to computer USB ports, and changed out some pots, but you still have this problem...okay, you're not sure yet. With that in mind and if were me, I would draw a wiring diagram with every detail possible, including wire size, name brand of switches, buttons and etc used, and detail any other items beyond the normal connections to the card (if any). Then post a pic of your diagram. Also, please explain the modified Nav Heads, because this sounds like a missing piece to the puzzle that you haven't mentioned before or at least I don't remember that you did.

Lastly, I know this can be very frustrating and believe me all of the members here have gone through something like this at one point or another, but don't let it beat you. Why? Because you will have many more moments like this in the future and they mght be better or worse. The best thing is too think logical...go back through your steps one by one until you figure it out. Plus, keep asking members on this website and members on www.mycockpit.org as it will help you get there, no matter the problem.

John

Edit for typo

[Mach7]

Hello John,

You won't find the VHF Nav heads on his site because I got Leo to modify them for me on a special order, along with 16 mechanical engine gauges.

Bodnar electronics has confirmed that the firmware update, although not harmful to do, would not create the problems I am having with the card at present.The Firmware update(s) are reserved for those items listed on his site only.

My problem was that the Hidflash program (downloaded from his site) recognized the other plugged in devices and I accidentally selected "VHF NAV 1 Primary" into the bootloader which stopped it from working as it was waiting for an update.

The way these devices work is through a small .exe firmware program that runs the nav heads and engine gauges. One specifically for the nav heads and one for the gauges (VHF_NAV.exe and Eng_Gauges.exe). I have to click on each icon to bring these devices online.

Leo has sent me an updated firmware file for both heads, and I have got one online but the other still not recognized for some reason. (it advises it is connected but not recognized)

Anyway, I tried uninstalling the Hidflash program, and although it said it uninstalled successfully, it did not. I have since gone into the directory and 100 percent removed it...however still having issues with Vhf nav 1

My next step is to restore the computer to an earlier date and see if I can fix my nav problem....i tried this before, but since the flash program was still hanging on following system restore, my belief is that it prevented the nav from operating.

Leo is giving me excellent customer service and we are going back and forth on this issue, so I am happy with that but due to the time change they are closed now...so trying to work out a couple of solutions on my own.

With respect to the card, they advised to keep monitoring it and when it starts to heat, start checking voltages at the card to determine which pot is drawing current.

They also advised they recently upgraded the card with better protections against this sort of thing, so they are sending me another card in the mail free of charge.

So at present I am trying to get back what I lost (VHF nav heads) before I continue to troubleshoot.

-Jim

[blueskydriver]

Okay, I see... So, if the computer restore works great, but if you did by chance change the firmware on the cards system restore cannot undo that.

As far as the 0836x card, I have two thoughts: One does the VHF NAV or Engine gauges get plugged into it whatsoever? If so, how is that setup? If not, where are they plugged into via USB hub or straight to PC USB Port(s)?

Two, did you have the VHF NAV and Engine gauges in use when the last card failed? If so, can you unplug them during your testing too see if this card gets hot or not, and then plug them back in and check for overheat again.

The only other thing that stands out is using RC servo parts for pots. I know they're only supposed send position data, but generally speakng, servos are more used to run gauges (in flight simulator realm) which does use power. Thus, let me ask this...is the Engines Gauges card driving actual gauges that has servos inside them? If so, how many gauges are ran together and do they relate to the 0836x? In other words, if the Engine Gauges draws power for the gauges, how much is that in amps, plus being that it's plugged in within proximity of 0836x card (USB of it) could it be crossing over and overheating the card?

Best Regards,

John

[iwik]

Jim,
How about sketching up a Block diagram showing what you have connected to what cards ect. It may help us all to see what the overall setup consists of.
Regards
les

[Mach7]

Hello John,

I tried the system restore, and I still cannot get Nav 1 online...so you are right, the firmware must have been changed or dumped...however I still cannot upload the new firmware into that program to make it function.

Hopefully Leo will have a solution tomorrow morning.

With respect to the engine gauges and vhf navs, they do not plug into the 836 card in any way shape of form.

The engine gauges use a Canbus arrangement designed by Leo.  Here is a link to a video clip of the initial design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAxwVIwPAHw

The vhf nav heads just plug into a USB port at the computer and a small firmware program brings them online.

I have ran the board with various configurations and the overheat problem is hit or miss, however I have had board overheats with everything online, and board overheats with everything off line (except the card of course).

I also have one open cockpits board that runs my flap indicator gauge...probably going to change that out for and include it in the canbus daisy chain as well.

The gauges run on a 24 volt power supply and is totally separate from the other devices within the system.

I had the same overheat issues when I had my previous set of gauges running off open cockpit cards.

@Les....just say your post while I was typing so I have included a block diagram of my current device configuration

[Trevor Hale]

Silly Question James, but why don't you just email Leo, and tell him what you did to the NAV1 and ask him to send you the "Proper Firmware for the nav1" and re-flash the card again.

Either that or he will need to do it for you..

Seems to me your hoped either way, but at least you can explain to him what you accidentally did.

[Mach7]

Hello Trevor,

If you check my second last post, that is exactly what I did and that is exactly what he sent. The problem is that only one head will accept the firmware update and I am not sure why.

[KyleH]

Jim,

When you went to update the firmware on the joystick card, it sounds like the update software package found several of the microcontrollers that were attached to the computer and update all of them.

I would suggest removing the problem head from your sim computer and plug it into a different computer and try to do the update it from there.

[Mach7]

Thats actually not a bad idea......I think I will try that

[Mach7]

Just tried it...didn't work.

Even on the second computer it the update names the nav head as "bootloader" as opposed to what it reads on the other nav head which is "VHF Nav 2 Secondary".

I might have to send the heads back to leo if I can't figure it out.

[Mach7]

Also Kyle,

The firmware flash program that Leo designed has a drop down menu. Although all the plugged in devices are listed on the menu, you can only select one at a time.

If the firmware is not compatible with the chip...then it wont load

My problem was finger trouble as I mistakenly selected VHF 1 and sent it to the bootloader. I did not download any firmware on it...but neither could I get it out of bootloader...

Having said this, Leo advised that his Hidflash program does not need to be used for my èxtra`devices like engine gauges and nav heads...just use the firmware for the card update.

So the file he sent me is a straight firmware update for the nav heads...however there is only one and I assumed it would work on both, but it only worked on one...so I have another email in to him to see if there is something specific he needs to send.

Seems it also renamed the device from VHF 1 Primary to bootloader.

[blueskydriver]

Hi Jim,

Now I have a better understanding of your setup and it is complex, not in the sense of complicated, but a lot of variables going on. Try not to worry too much, it'll get fixed one way or another...even if you got a little click happy...lol...it happens too all of us. ?

In the mean time, I suggest you stop and wait for Leo to reply. Basically, you did the firmware update for the 0836x which Leo suggests and I am assuming it works or if you plan to check it, do it without the VHF NAV and Gauges involved. That way you have one problem figured...that being the firmware update for 0836x card was done and it works as normal in design (ignoring overheat issue).

The second problem is your VHF NAV cards and I am not going to suggest anything for those since they're a special thing between you and Leo. It's best too wait for him in this regard.

You said they're sending you a new updated card, do you know when you'll get it? Not soon enough, right? Lol, I know how you feel...

John