Visuals feel off center

[mdavenport]

I've just setup my Dual seater MIP and positioned my 3 x 23" screens directly behind the MIP (centered with the MIP) in an attempt to get the best monitor position for captain and fo sides.

I am running NVidia Surround across them.  The left and right screens are positioned flat and not at an angle.

The 3 screens are pretty much the same width as the MIP.

Having done a test flight tonight when I looked up from the captains seat to look out the window I found that it felt off-center and that I was going down the runway twisted (like doing a crosswind landing)...

I remember experiencing this when I went on a 737 sim that had a projector for the visuals.

I am running zoom of 1.0 or 1.5.

Is there a way to overcome this or is this normal and something I need to get used to?

I guess I could simply move the monitors over to the left so the centre monitor is more aligned to the captains seat but this will mean the FO view isn't reflective...

Any suggestions / quick wins that I can benefit from your experience?

Mark

[jackpilot]

This has been debated at length over the years , Search "crabbing".
Cheers
Jack

[Aerosim Solutions]

You can move the eye point for a perfect Captain's perspective but the FO's view will be twice as bad. Best to leave it unless you mostly fly by yourself! Cheers Gwyn

[Mach7]

@mdavenport

The perspective of your visuals should start with what you are going to see looking directly out the Captains window, and then adjust the remaining monitors accordingly.

This seems to be an issue with a lot of builders as most assume, (incorrectly) that the forward looking monitor should be directly in front of the window divider, and this is not the case.

I have attached a picture of what you should really see when lined up with the runway. I took this pic for my own personal use in order to reference my monitor setup.

I use WideView, so I have 7 monitors, each angled 22.5 degrees from the forward view monitor. With this picture I had my initial reference point and then manipulated the remaining monitors and views accordingly.

The drawback is that if one attempts to fly from the right seat, the view will not be correct.

Hope this helps

-Jim

[FredK]

 

The perspective of your visuals should start with what you are going to see looking directly out the Captains window, and then adjust the remaining monitors accordingly.

This seems to be an issue with a lot of builders as most assume, (incorrectly) that the forward looking monitor should be directly in front of the window divider, and this is not the case.

I have attached a picture of what you should really see when lined up with the runway. I took this pic for my own personal use in order to reference my monitor setup.

I use WideView, so I have 7 monitors, each angled 22.5 degrees from the forward view monitor. With this picture I had my initial reference point and then manipulated the remaining monitors and views accordingly.

The drawback is that if one attempts to fly from the right seat, the view will not be correct.

Hope this helps

-Jim

I have my 3 projector WideView setup the same way....perspective is adjusted to be centered at the pilot's eyepoint.  More specifically, it is centered 3 inches towards the center from the pilots eyepoint.  That gives me a perfect viewing perspective from the pilot's seat.  As mentioned above of course it exacerbates the crabbing phenomenon when viewed from the FO side.  My logic has always been though that more than 95% of the time I am flying alone, so the FO seat does not come into play, and when I do have a guest they are always sitting on the Pilot's side.  Also, the FO should be more concerned about working the radios and managing the cockpit settings rather than "flying" the plane and looking out the window.

It all works for me.

Fred K

[mdavenport]

Thanks all for your responses...

Jack, thanks for confirming the search term as I was struggling to know the word to use to describe what I was seeing and wasn't finding anything - once I searched for "crabbing" I see its a well talked about topic.

Having read the responses and other posts it sees that its made best by moving the eyepoint to suit the captains seat and yes, whilst it will make the FO side worse, as most people say they fly from the captains seat and guests are also put in that seat.

I guess my next question is, what is the best way to set this new eyepoint?  I have read the following:-

1. Modify manually the aircraft.cfg file
2. Use Ezdock and set predefined location
3. I also read about altering the rotation in addition to the eyepoint

To me it sounds like Ezdock is going to be the best solution as I would imagine changing the aircraft.cfg file needs the sim restarting each time and this will take a lot of time?  I assume with Ezdok (having not used it before) you can just press a key and move the eyepoint?

Let me know if there is anything else I should be considering or which is the best way to achieve this.

Thanks
Mark

[mdavenport]

P3D can move the eyepoint left by pressing CTRL+SHIFT+BACKSPACE

Is this the same thing as altering in the aircraft.cfg file?  If so what is the advantage of editing the file?  Is it not just as easy to set it up using the above keyboard command?

[bernard S]

Bud... I will tell you how it is    You can not change the laws of physics    its that simple ...however you can solve the eye point view with a collimated systems ypu just have to decide who gets the distortion?

[FredK]

The best way is simply to permanently position your monitor or screen hardware displays accordingly.  Do not fiddle with eye point adjustments methods.....The reason is that ideally you want to have the pilot's eye point equidistant from each display since there are other distortion factors that come into play otherwise.

Fred K

[mdavenport]

Hi FredK,

Interesting that you mention moving the screens, yet most of the other threads talk about changing the eyepoint via P3D/config files.

You point seems to make sense but I can't understand why other people aren't simply doing it.  Is it something deemed not possible when they have a certain type of display, i.e. projector/screen.?

[jackpilot]

There are many factors at play....the best is experimenting and finding out what fits your criteria.
Jack

[mdavenport]

Ive tried moving the eyepoint but this doesn't seem to make things much better so wondered if I also need to change the rotate values as well?

The next thing for me to try is to physically move the 3 monitors over to the left so my centre screen and therefore the runway centre line is in front of the captains display.

Is this how it should be?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that the centre runway line should almost appear to be inline with the captains PFD rather than inline with the centre of my MCP like it does now.

Am I right in thinking this?  If so how does anyone achieve this with moving their displays?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FredK]

As stated above....If you are seeking a perfect viewing perspective a key factor is to be absolutely certain that each display is equidistant from the captain's eye point!  There are distortion factors that come into play when viewed otherwise that cannot be corrected via changing viewing config values. Once you have done that you can play with shifting eye point left/right via the program config.  I think you will find that unnecessary though.

Also...as Jack has stated...you need to explore different configurations and come to your own conclusions as to what works best for you.  A lot of this comes down to personal preferences.  What may be important to one individual may not be important to another.  Only you can decide for yourself.

Fred K

[XOrionFE]

With my monitor setup (5x60") I have monitors centered on the shell wrapping around either side equally.   In P3D or x-plane I set each as 45 degree angles of view.   i then set 8 degrees of rotational offset to the right (ie- center monitor at +8, etc.  i think 5-8 degrees is best.   This will make nice setup for laft seat.  Right seat is screwed but doesnt matter.  Let your guests always fly left seat.  When flying solo...fly leftbseat.    Looks perfect. 

If using X-Plane you could setup multile camera views using x-camera plugin so with press of button you can have visuals aligned to co-pilot rather than pilot.  See Rob for this example (raflyer).

In P3D or FSX, EZDock could probably do same thing.

Just remember it will never be nice lokkimgnfor pilot and co-pilot at same time..

Scott

[mdavenport]

@mdavenport

The perspective of your visuals should start with what you are going to see looking directly out the Captains window, and then adjust the remaining monitors accordingly.

This seems to be an issue with a lot of builders as most assume, (incorrectly) that the forward looking monitor should be directly in front of the window divider, and this is not the case.

I have attached a picture of what you should really see when lined up with the runway. I took this pic for my own personal use in order to reference my monitor setup.

I use WideView, so I have 7 monitors, each angled 22.5 degrees from the forward view monitor. With this picture I had my initial reference point and then manipulated the remaining monitors and views accordingly.

The drawback is that if one attempts to fly from the right seat, the view will not be correct.

Hope this helps

-Jim

Hi Jim

To achieve this as per your photo I will start and move my centre screen which is currently (incorrectly) lined up with the window divider.

I will move my left hand screen further to the left and angle this as xx degrees. Not to sure what to do with the right hand screen. I can angle this the same as the left but this will then be where the window divider will be.

Should I look to add another monitor so 4 are wrapped around?  However I ideally when funds permit want larger screens so may look to get a couple of 55" screens.

I think part of my problem is I am trying to make do with 3 smallish screens when really I need at least one big or several. :-(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jackpilot]

Rule of thumb !
The centerline must not be in front of you
The front wheel is on the centerline when that line is "visually" touching the outside of your right knee'
Jack

[Mach7]

@mcdavenport

Jackpilot hit the nail on the head...this is the best way to explain how to set your visuals up!

I use wideview with 7 client computers running 7 monitors.

Here's what I did with my visuals...I bought 7 22 inch LCD monitors at a clearance sale price...I then went shopping on ebay and found 7 small computers for around 130 bucks each.

My monitors are arranged to angle from the forward view 22.5 degrees. This gives me just about 180 degrees of view.

So basically if you were to look top looking down, it would appear as a semi-circle offset to the left.

This visual presentation will make you dizzy...in fact my gf has had to leave the room because she felt sick after a couple of unusual attitudes.

-Jim

[mdavenport]

Wow those visuals look great Jim. 7 x 22" is within my reaching distance.

Is there a reason why you didn't do 2 screens per PC? Or could the PCs you got not handle multiple. Also with wideview I assume you have to load p3d/fsx + all sceneries on to each of them for it to work?

Ive moved my screens over to the left by around 8-10" and I must say it feels a lot better but as everyone has said it makes the FO side worse (never mind)

Here is a picture of mine before and after. As you can see the first pictures the centre line goes straight through the MCP centre. And on the 2nd it's closer to where the captains right knee would be.

Before:-


After:-


I could do with getting a few more screens and PCs and doing what you have done.

Are you glad you got 22" screens or do you wish you got bigger ones?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mach7]

@mcdavenport

WideView is a simple program that runs Fs9 or FsX in "slew" mode off the master computer.

That is to say, you have to have multiple copies of the flight simulator program as each computer, in my case, has Fs9 installed, then what WideView does is allow the client computers to slew off the master computer for your outside views through an ethernet connection.

The work involved is setting up the outside visuals on each monitor to give you a seamless transition from view to view. This takes some time.....

Its a bit of a setup to get everything running...but I have found short cuts and finding more every day.

Basically each computer has to be powered up, then fs9 booted up. You then have to select the aircraft and then select the outside view.

WideView installs a virtual toggle switch on the top left hand corner of each screen, so you toggle the master ON and the remaining client computers to ON to allow them to be placed in the slew mode.

So basically, the client computers do not have to be very powerful as all they do is run one view per unit.

I have zero stutter and everything runs quite smoothly.

I might upgrade the monitors one day, but for now I am satisfied with the setup.

I had initially considered short throw projectors, but was deterred from this setup due to the expense and the amount of heat generated by the units.

Triple Head to Go was another option...but it does not really give you three distinct views, but rather one view that is essentially stretched across three screens...not to mention you are limited in monitor size and there is substantial frame rate degredation.

WideView for the money is the best option in my opinion.

I fly real aircraft and real simulators for a living, so in my mind this is as real as it gets.

Your setup look awesome!

Most likely you will find that you will have to tweak the monitor positions, but you are definitely on the right track!

-Jim

[navymustang]

A minor error - WideView used to use SLEW mode, but stopped that process several versions ago.

[Mach7]

Interesting,

This is direct from there website;

Q: What is it and how it works?

A: FS2004/2 - WidevieW is a set of special gauges which can be installed in any aircraft's panel and that can be used to create virtual cockpits with multiple outside views, using networked PCs. The clients will be set into a special "SLEW" mode, which will follow exactly the aircraft on the server, using a fast and efficient network data stream based on the IPX or TCP/IP protocol and a proprietary technology. It lets to create panormaic surrounding views by assigning a specific view direction to each computer.

[navymustang]

SLEW was stopped on the clients starting with version 3.0  Version 2.2 still used it.

[Mach7]

Ok...cool

How do they do it now? Maybe I should upgrade...

[navymustang]

I don't have inside knowledge - I would assume they are using P3D SimConnect to pass positional and rotational values along with velocity along each axis to the clients.
The new version also supports a full range of effects touch as tire smoke on touch down, etc.

[FredK]

The latest WV version also works for P3D, and basic weather and AI synchronization (WideTraffic) also works better with the latest WV version.  It all works great for me using HD projectors.  I am using FS Global Real Weather for weather synchronization......It works via a "network bridge" outside of WideView so smoothness is optimized.  It really works very simply....you do not need to turn on WV switches on each computer (unless you want to)...it all boots up automatically.

However....it is very doubtful there will ever be a WideView update for P3Dv4.

Fred K