Motorizing Homemade Throttles

[matta757]

Hey all,

I have come to the decision that I really would like to motorize my throttles for my 757 sim. I already have gears being used to turn the pots, so I hope that might be one hurdle out of the way.

I was wondering if anyone can give me an idea of how difficult it is to accomplish this? What kind of servo motor do I need? Do I need one for each throttle or not? What kind of card do I need to be able to interface the motor and the computer and to what degree of difficulty is it to accomplish this?

Also, in terms of motors, is there a type that is better for allowing me to still manually use the throttles on the ground and on approach without breaking the motor?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Regards,
Matt

[jackpilot]

David C. Allen worked on that
Check:http://www.737flightsim.com/AutoThrottle/AutoThrottle.html

Also talk to Maurice.
He is a pionneer of "motorization" !

[Eduardo]

Hi Matt,

You can check out this old post of mine. It has a list of the parts I used to motorize my homemade 737 TQ.

http://www.flightdecksoftware.com/forum/index.php?topic=206.0

Look here for pics,

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=687  (you might have to log in to check my album)

Hope this helps, FLY SAFE!

Regards,

Pedro

ODYSSEYNG
737simulator

"Keep 'em Flying and Enjoy the Ride"

[Trevor Hale]

Fortunately we don;t have to login to see the photo's "YET" LOL.  Thanks for posting the links Pedro.

Trev

[matta757]

Pedro,

Can your setup as I read it on the other forum be used for FS9 autothrottle? I don't care so much about the speed brake as I do the throttles. Did you use a separate motor for each throttle?

Also, once everything is hooked up, does the Phidget card need some sort of calibration with the autothrottle? I am just a little confused on how it all comes together once everything is set up. Any help? Thanks for all the info already!

Matt

[Eduardo]

Hi Matt,

I had no problem getting the throttle levers to move with Fs9. I have a servo for each throttle lever, this way you maximize lever smoothness. If you use the program Diego created you have to calibrate the range/travel of the servos/levers, I recommend increasing or decreasing the travel of the servo disconnected from the lever at first to avoid damaging the servo. The program has sliders and options to setup the ranges. I highly recommend reading the post about the software to get familiar with what it can do, just click on this link; http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15935.  The program and program .ini pretty much tell you where to connect the servos, sorry don't have access to the files at this time. I believe you have to connect servo #1(Lt lever) to connector zero in the phidgets servo card, servo #2 (Rt lever) goes in connector number 1 and spoiler servo (if used) in connector number 2. Once your servo card is connected to the computer run Diego's program, you should see the phidgets servo card listed, click on calibrate servos and setup the travel ranges. By all means if you have questions let me know.

Fly Safe!

Pedro

[matta757]

Hi Matt,

I had no problem getting the throttle levers to move with Fs9. I have a servo for each throttle lever, this way you maximize lever smoothness. If you use the program Diego created you have to calibrate the range/travel of the servos/levers, I recommend increasing or decreasing the travel of the servo disconnected from the lever at first to avoid damaging the servo. The program has sliders and options to setup the ranges. I highly recommend reading the post about the software to get familiar with what it can do, just click on this link; http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15935.  The program and program .ini pretty much tell you where to connect the servos, sorry don't have access to the files at this time. I believe you have to connect servo #1(Lt lever) to connector zero in the phidgets servo card, servo #2 (Rt lever) goes in connector number 1 and spoiler servo (if used) in connector number 2. Once your servo card is connected to the computer run Diego's program, you should see the phidgets servo card listed, click on calibrate servos and setup the travel ranges. By all means if you have questions let me know.

Fly Safe!

Pedro

you're awesome, thanks!

[Trevor Hale]

There was or used to be a thread over there as well, where Peter Dawson had helped a member create a FSUIPC "LUA" Plugin that would smooth out the movement of the throttles so they wern't so darn jerky.  If someone can login over there and paste that link here as well, that would be great.

Trev

[MLeavy737]

I would definately be interested in some of the software being used to deal with the (Auto) in Autothrottle   I recently had www.NorthernFlightsim.com rebuild my real ones to NG standard with all the automation. The hard part for me is in the software. The throttles as some may know are  belt driven by motors on a slip clutch. A little different than just having a servo drive them.. Nice and realstic but a little tricky to get working..

Mike Leavy

[jackpilot]

The wheel has been already invented.
Ask David, he used motors and clutches.
http://www.737flightsim.com/AutoThrottle/AutoThrottle.html

[MLeavy737]

Ahh cool.. I should have known he had it done already! 

btw..Hes awesome! lol.. I cant wait to see how his sim is when its done.. He has been asking me questions about the real airplane that i actually had to be in the airplane with a video recorder to record the info he wanted lol..  Details and more details!

Thanks,

Mike Leavy

[Joe Lavery]

Hi Guys,

I've found this thread most interesting, but I see conflicting views about the way to go. Having built a manual throttle some time ago, I've been working on a new design that I intend to motorise. However I see that some people use DC motors, some use servos and some as discussed here are going with a clutch/brake design.

Can anyone say which is the best option, I'm told that with servos you can't touch the levers when they are under servo control. is that correct? The brake/clutch option looks quite an engineering feat for those without access to the necessary machines, so I've sort of leaned towards DC motors, but any advice would be welcome.

Cheers

Joe.

[matta757]

Hey Joe,

Maybe I have not been paying attention to details, but what is the DC option?

Matt

[jackpilot]

I guess it is DC motor versus servos.

[matta757]

Jack,

Pardon my ignorance on the subject, but what exactly is the difference between the two?

Matt

[fordgt40]

With servo motors you cannot move the throttle handles when they are being driven else you will likely strip their gearing. Also servo motors generally have circa 170deg of rotation - this does not lend itself to smooth movement through the gearing. DC motors are more flexible in gearing, smoother and can be controlled via simple and inexpensive Pulse width modulation controller boards which in turn can be driven from an I/O board in both direction and speed. I would have thought that the construction of a friction type clutch should not present major difficulties, unless you opt for the magnificent arrangement done by Jack

I will be converting my Symulatory throttle from servos (very jerky movement !!) to dc motors, that is after I have finished the overhead
   

[Trevor Hale]

Matt,

DC Motors take a constant voltage to make them operate in one direction, and generally reverse the polarity to make them go the other direction.

Stepper motors take a series of pulses to make the device move, reverse the pulses to make it go the other direction.

Basically a stepper motor is part of a (Servo) but as a servo in that reference it generally knows where its position is all the time with a reference potentiometer generally and counts the pulses to make it move to another position.

Hope that helps you.

Trev

[fordgt40]

Matta

Servo motors are highly geared motors (generally used in model cars/airplanes) with an integral potentiometer - inside a boxed package with the actuator arm on top. Generally, the servo will move through a rotation angle of 170deg only to a position set by the signal value given to it by the control software often in a range of 0 to 1024. DC motors are free running so your gearing can be much more flexible - the motor can rotate as much as you want. Positional feedback is via a separate potentiometer

David

[matta757]

David and Trevor,

Wow am I glad I asked... I guess I really actually need a DC setup. I already have potentiometers that are connected to a BUO836X board to relay the position to flight sim, and it sounds like a DC motor and some sort of card or two is all I need to make it all work, right?

Where might I be able to procure the materials you mentioned, David? Are the Phidget boards the type that I need? If you have any sources or anything I would be most appreciative!

Matt

[MLeavy737]

Matt,
  Going the DC motor/slip clutch way also adds to the realism factor! I am constantly overiding or helping the autothrottles respond quicker in the real bird..  Also picture performing a rejected takeoff in a sim with servo coupled throttles.. You would wind up tearing the servos apart when you reach up and yank the throttles to idle!

Mike Leavy

[fordgt40]

Matt

Sadly, there is no real "plug and Play" solution here! The simplest probably would be to purchase a ready made controller such as the Opencockpits dc motor card.  Link

http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/electronic-cards-iocards-motors-c-21_34.html

This will control directly the motor speed and direction, though you will need to programme it all in their associated programming language SIOC, which although powerful, has a steep learning curve. I suggest that you research the Opencockpits site for using SIOC to control dc motors to gain an appreciation of what is involved. Alternatively you could buy a low level dc motor controller such as the  BUV05 (currently out of stock) on this link

http://www.byvac.co.uk/mo_home.php

However, you will still need a programmable digital output board to send the control instructions - this is a much harder option than the Opencockpits solution.  You pays your money etc etc

When I build mine, I will share the information

Regards

David

[matta757]

I guess the question I should be asking before I move forward with this is:

Is the ability to motorize throttles dependent on the aircraft software? Can any aircraft be programmed to have a motorized autothrottle? I know that the PSS 757 software sucks for most of the people on this forum because it can't be interfaced to show responses in the simulator (for lights and stuff) but at the moment, it is really the only quality piece of software for the 757 for FS9 (I wish Level-D would make their software compatible with FS9...). Since the only thing I really am trying to have the game control in my simulator are the throttles, I was hoping this might actually be possible.

So provided that the PSS 757 autothrottles can be motorized, does anyone know how to write scripts? I would love to use the Opencockpits card, as it is the cheapest, but I have no idea how to write scripts and after searching through their forum, I cannot find any codes written for the PSS autothrottle.

You guys have been SUCH a huge help already, but if anyone can answer these all important questions I would REALLY appreciate it.

Best regards,

Matt

[fordgt40]

Matt

If you are seeking simple movement of the throttles to reflect autothrottle commands then I would have thought that standard FSUIPC offsets would provide that information as you are only seeking to mirror what the plane is commanding, and which is reflected in the FSUIPC offsets. As you have found out, there is not likely to be any SIOC scripts for the PSS 757, but this should not matter as you will be taking the info from FSUIPC and not PSS 757 directly. There are plenty of autothrottle scripts out there using FSUIPC, however, the majority will be for servos and not dc motors. If you wish to puruse this option then you are in for some extensive study of SIOC programming!

David

[matta757]

David,

Phew, I am glad to hear that it is still possible. I was beginning to worry my hopes were going to be crushed by my dependence on a certain piece of software!

So I was checking out Opencockpits... besides the DC motor controller, do I also need one of their master boards?


Thanks,

Matt

[jackpilot]

Hey Matt
You are really courageous, to go through all that to replicate a Boeing gimmick!
Same for the  motorized yokes!!
Mike himself said that he has to override it quite often.
I really do not see the point to sit back and look at the  Invisible Man taking over your fun!

When you disconnect the AT it is either to slam the TQ forward (to evade whatever threat) or to retard, mostly on very short final or for some VNAV  settings, and anyway, when you disconnect, the engines stay where the AT left them , then it does not take much thinking to adjust the lever  to the desired power setting....

Well I had to say it!!! lol     I hate automation as you probably guessed
Cheers Guys!