737NG Full Fixed base Major Tech Refresh (Need Feedback)

[AngeloC]

Hey everyone, I am about to take on a pretty big task involving our Full 737NG Simulator. Let me give you a bit of information about the sim, then I will mention the plan and see what you guys recommend.

The 737 is a full cockpit with shell and Curved display with 3 projector setup. It is a 6 PC setup, 1 Main for visuals, 5 for avionics Capt / FO Lower Eicas, CDU, Overhead, Instructor panel. Its a Windows 7 64 bit setup across the board, running Project Magenta avionics suite. FSX SP2 using triple head to go and Nthusim for the projector blending.

Components:

CPFlight
Engine/APU Fire Control Panel, Model FIRE737
VHF Comms (x2)
Cargo Fire Panel
Nav Panel (x2)
WX RDR Panel
Mic Selector (x2)
ATC TCAS Panel
ADF
Stab Trim Console
Aileron/Rudder Manual Controls Console
MCP, Model MCP737PRO 

Flightdeck Solutions
Main Instrument panel
Latest Gen CDU for Capt and Gen I or Gen II CDU for FO

Throttle Quad
The throttle quadrant is at least 4-5 years old, it was one of the first motorized FSC plastic TQs. The speedbrake and engines 1/2 levers all lost servo functionality and no longer move but the TQ still does work but seriously needs replacing.

Overhead Panel
Both forward and aft OH is from Sismo Soluciones Gold line USB (Not Ethernet) and uses SC-Pascal to communicate to the sim. http://www.sismo-soluciones.com/index.php/shop/aft-overhead

Rest is FDS Dual linked rudders / yokes. Interface IT FDS SYS boards.

The sim is no longer performing satisfactorily, mechanically and in sim. FSX 5-10 seconds pauses, non fluid frame rate etc.

Its time to do a total tech / software overhaul and I am coming here for advice. The PC's are good, the only thing I may change is going SLI on the main visual PC and consider running P3D 3.1 or X-Plane 10.xx.

Again I apologize for the long post, but I am trying to get as much information across so we can make the best decision on how to proceed.

Summary of what we want to do:

1. Ditch FSX as it is no longer supported and move to P3D / X-Plane.
2. Consider another possible avionics solution, Sim-Avionics / ProSim 737?
3. See what alternate Throttle Quadrant solutions are available to replace our defective.
4. Verify that the above hardware excluding the TQ will be P3D / X-Plane compliant.
5. Going SLI route or not.
6. Review / discuss any potential problems or issues you guys can foresee.

I am leaning more towards P3D, I know the ins-and-outs of FSX. Used on my home PC P3D 3.0 and 3.1 and feel comfortable with it, and a vast majority of the addons are already compatible transferable to P3D vs. X-Plane we have none.

Thanks guys I really look forward to forming a plan. 

[navymustang]

Angelo, My immediate thoughts are keep the Sismo products, move to P3D, don't worry about SLI, you won't get that much improvement, and go to Prosim.  That will give you the bones to build the rest of the sim around and you will be very satisfied with the results.
Jim

[Sam Llorca]

I'm a lifelong FSX user, loved FSX but when P3d came out it was the change I was waiting for, I have to agree with Jim (navymustang) keep your hardware, go to P3Dv3.1 and Prosim737, can't go wrong with that.
Cheers,

[AngeloC]

So everything should work then software wise in P3D, drivers etc? Yes I do echo the move off Project Magenta I have heard a lot better feedback with the newer and more updated ProSim. In regards to the flight model, are you guys using Prosims 737 or PMDG in conjunction?

Are there any other challenges / things to think about that you can foresee?

Any advice on a TQ? Not looking to source a real one and retrofit, the budget and timeframe do not allow this.

Nobody sees any problems with SC-Pascal and the Sismo OH working with P3D, will it even notice a new sim interface?

[navymustang]

My entire cockpit is Sismo and I have had almost no problems at all. Love the Ethernet interface and standalone CPUs at each major component!!
Sismo is fully compatible with Prosim and they are constantly looking for input as to how to improve the product.
My FWD and AFT OVHD work perfectly with P3D v2. Shifting to v3 this month and I don't anticipate any issues.
jim

[Ridgenj]

Angelo, I echo the previous comments. Concerning an OEM TQ, Willow and other have experience with converting them to work with proSim737. a fully converted NE cost in the US around 10 to 12 thousand dollars and takes like 3 month to get it.
X-plane is a deficit at the proSim737 side and FDS software has a better support for x-plane.
The sismocards have not been updated since a few years and if you like USB cards, Hispapanels have Sismocards that are compatible with the SismoCards. Both come from the same developer, a brilliant Spanish engineer.


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[quid246]

Angelo, I echo the previous comments. Concerning an OEM TQ, Willow and other have experience with converting them to work with proSim737. a fully converted NE cost in the US around 10 to 12 thousand dollars and takes like 3 month to get it.

Or about $3K + your time + some electronics and nuts and bolts + a desire to marvel at the engineering if you DIY.

[AngeloC]

So not to state the obvious but I just want to make sure, I am to go to all the hardware vendor websites and obtain P3D drivers for all the cockpit hardware? CP Flight MCP, Comm, Nav, FDS CDU's etc?

Secondly will the OH panel that is USB from SC-Pascal work as it did with FSX? Or will I have to obtain another config code file to load in Pascal for P3D to work? My main concern is the OH not communicating to the sim or airplane and be dead in the water until I find a solution.

Can anyone recomend a TQ that they approve of both Motorized and non-motorized versions?

I was thinking the FDS Jetmax TQ but I know that's more plastic and casual use then say a metal one that will hold up way more.

[jackpilot]

I have seen here good reports about the JetMax TQ from satisfied members, and IMHO non  motorization is not the end of the world in a personal sim
Besides , at ±$US 1k a copy , you  can afford two
if you want to be on the ultra safe side !! 

[FredK]

Just to add more considerations into the mix....

My hardware is a mix of FDS (overhead and CDUs), Simparts (MIP), and CPFlight (MCP and Pedestal). 

Overhead uses FDS Sys Board interface; MIP and Pedestal uses CPFlight interface.

Overhead and MIP (standby) gauges are Flight Illusion.

Yokes and pedals are PFC.

Platform is P3Dv3.1

Avionics is SIM-A.

Visuals are WideView.

Projection is onto a curved screen using (3) Optoma 1080GTs.

My motorized TQ is my own conversion and SIOC program (reported on elsewhere here).

ATC interface is FlightSoundX (dual) using VPilot.

All is working fine and very conveniently regarding drivers etc.  No USB disconnects whatsoever.

Fred K

[AngeloC]

I saw a video of the guy at Norwegian737 project where he used Prosim737 to program the rotary and toggle switches of the OH he had by toggling the particular toggle and assigned the action in prosim.

Is that what we will have to do when we move? Or will will continue with SC-Pascal or do we have either option?

This TQ is looking like a strong contender, metal for longevity vs molded plastic.

http://www.flightsimulatorcenter.com/Product.aspx?lang=ENG&ID=20ffe6f3-758a-45ec-91c7-7bf5758f4be0&CODE=875793

[navymustang]

You have complete compatibility with Prosim and Sismo.  Simply load the new SC-Pascal scripts supplied free of charge from Sismo.

Send me a PM if you need assistance on this.

Jim

[AngeloC]

Thank you sir! I will do that when we get the ball rolling. Great community here thanks so much guys.

I will follow through with updates and photos.

[Sam Llorca]

You have to use SC-Pascal because Sismo cards are Ethernet , Prosim can't read switches Ethernet based, SC-Pascal is your only communication between the cards and Prosim.

[AngeloC]

Finally got the P3D software, install is beginning Wednesday! I have just sent numerous emails to all the hardware vendors the comprise the 737 setup. Let the nail biting begin.

I will follow up here with what I encounter.