Immersive Calibration Pro........HELP.

[brianwilliamson]

I have just upgraded Immersive Cal. and Display to the latest versions........and also printed the latest manuals.......

Well I really have not seen worse manuals ever !!  I have spent ages trying to figure out how to get the setup correct and even asking for advice from
Nikola " who says to follow the instructions "  I am starting to get a little pieved off !!

Have said all that, has anyone here that are running 3 Projectors on 3 separate computers with a 4th computer as Server  have the same problems. I am not talking about people running Triple Head To Go. ( that is another item in the instructions that is not made clear )

On page 40 of the calibration manual, there is nothing to suggest what you need to tick or where you export or copy any of the areas that can be ticked.....in other words you can spend a week ( or longer ) trying to figure out what has to be done........I certainly have not figured it out yet.

I have only just learnt that it supposedly does the Blending by itself, even though that does not work properly, and then I have not discovered how to get a picture on 3 screens that you can re-do the blending.

Ok enough of my whingeing, perhaps someone can give me some good advice on this.................no I am not taking up lawn bowls yet !!

Cheers...................Brian W.

[navymustang]

I have the exact same set up you have both on my home sim and on several sims at work. PM me - I might be able to help.
Jim

[fordgt40]

Hi Jim,Brian

Hi I am in a similar position, trying to apply the manual to my setup which is the same as yours. Any chance you could continue this dialogue in the open forum rather than PM?

Regards

David

[navymustang]

We will keep it visible to everyone in the Forum 

[fordgt40]

Jim

Many thanks

David

[FredK]

I am running 3 separate projector (computer) channels plus a server using WideView.  Thus...a total of 4 computers.  I am also using Immersive Calibration Pro and Immersive Display Pro.

It all works fine.  I agree the manual can be a little daunting, but if you take it slowly all the information is there.

For the calibration I am using the "on screen" method, not the camera method. I believe it is actually more simple to use than the camera method, particularly if you are doing it for the first time.  That is what I recommend.  I can help with that method.

So Brian...let's start.....

First be sure that you are following the correct manual for what you want to do.  For the "on screen" method you should be using the "Calibration Without a Camera" version of the manual.  Do not use the one that is entitled "User Guide". 

So my first question is:  Are you following the "Calibration Without a Camera" method and manual?

If yes.....How far along have you gotten with the calibration process?  For example, have you been able to complete the on screen grid mapping aligning the grid square overlaps?

If yes...Have you been able to generate the "ViewGroups.xml" files in Immersive Calibration Pro?

If yes....Are you having a problem implementing the ViewGroups method in P3Dv3?

I just need to understand where you are at with the process.

Fred K

[brianwilliamson]

Let me thank you all for your replies. Perhaps, if there are no objections, I can make a questionaire here, so that hopefully everyone may benefit from the results.

Latest Immersive Calibration Pro V2.9.r3 using 4 computers,  P3D v3.5,  Wideview,  W7/64
Latest step by step Guide without a Camera.
_____________________________________________________________________
Page 30/31....all ok to here with alignment looking good.

Page 32/33.... Calculated Single Frustrum and then got the test image & tried to    correct any  anomalies for blending ( which is nearly impossible    with this test pattern)
   Saved   in my C drive/ Immersive dislpay PRO folder on Server as    2017.project

Page 34/35.......Presume we click Asymmetric and All Projectors.
   Do not see any of the picture  on my 3 screens, so not sure about the    relevance of    this

Page 36/37.......Not sure exactly what and how this is implimented.

Page 38/39.......Calculate Multiple Virtual Camera Button and the 3 screens look    as on Page 38.
   Saved   in my C drive/ Immersive dislpay PRO folder on Server as    2017.project
   Then Click Export button......................

Page 40.....Not sure of what needs selecting here. Presume I need ViewGroups    .xml
The following files I get saved in my Export folder in C: on Server:
   3 Single Dataxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.cut
   3 Multi dataxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.procalib
   3 Single dataxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.Procalib
   1 DataViewGroups.xml


From here I need some guidance because I am only guessing as to the new way of using ViewGroups.

So the main questions I have at this stage relate to Page 40 and then the following pages up to page 47.

Page  40 needs some major clarification as to what needs ticking and where to save and what to do with what you save.

I have been using the software for a number of years with reasonable results, but the latest upgrade is difficult to follow.

I have always done the saving and use of procalibs and the .xml files without problems, so suspect I need to learn how the new way with ViewGroups are used.

So if someone can explain from this point on it would be helpful to say the least.

Many thanks...............Brian W.

[FredK]

Okay...

Page 32/33.... Calculated Single Frustrum and then got the test image & tried to    correct any  anomalies for blending ( which is nearly impossible    with this test pattern)
   Saved   in my C drive/ Immersive dislpay PRO folder on Server as    2017.project

At this point the important thing is that the "Test Pattern" projected on your screen looks perfectly aligned.  You do not need to make any adjustments here...the adjustments for gamma, slope, and gain that the manual refers to have to do with the overlap band brightness.  You can adjust for all that later using Immersive Display Pro.  Aside from that if the "Test Pattern" does not look perfectly aligned you need to go back and fiddle with things.

Page 34/35.......Presume we click Asymmetric and All Projectors.
   Do not see any of the picture  on my 3 screens, so not sure about the    relevance of    this

Yes...simply click Asymmetric and all projectors

Page 36/37.......Not sure exactly what and how this is implimented.

I agree....all that is a bit confusing.  But the point of it all I believe is to ensure that the extremities of your alignment grid do not exceed the actual projected area. That is, the display software cannot adjust anything beyond what the projector projects. So in that regard I am careful to not exceed those limits when I am in the process of doing the grid alignment earlier on. Thus when I get to this point all looks OK, and I go on to the next step.

Page 38/39.......Calculate Multiple Virtual Camera Button and the 3 screens look    as on Page 38.
   Saved   in my C drive/ Immersive dislpay PRO folder on Server as    2017.project
   Then Click Export button......................

Okay

Page 40.....Not sure of what needs selecting here.

Click:  Multi frustrums and Prepar3Dv3 (View Groups.xml)

The following files I get saved in my Export folder in C: on Server:
   3 Single Dataxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.cut
   3 Multi dataxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.procalib
   3 Single dataxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.Procalib
   1 DataViewGroups.xml

Hmmm....The important thing at this point is that in your export file you have a "Multi_XXXX.procalib" file each display projector (3 in your case) and a single XXXViewGroups.xml file. Looks OK from what you report.

Beyond that....

For View Groups you need to do the following for each client computer:

(1) Place the .procalib files in the Immersive Display Pro folder in each client (located in Program Files X86 or wherever you installed).  You can place both the single and multi files if you want....but the multi files are the important ones.

(2) Place the ViewGroups.xml file in the P3Dv3 file located in "C:\Program Data" for each client computer.  Important: Make sure that the name is "ViewGroups.xml"....Remove the XXX designator part from the file name!

(3) Start P3D...Go to Views->View Group Management...then...

Displays->Config 1-> nVidia.....Change Display ID to corresponding projector (I do this but am not sure if it is really needed)

View Groups -> ImmersiveCalPro....Set corresponding projector (that is, delete the others)

(4) Right click on the P3D window (not on the view menu)....Click on ViewGroups....Click on ImmersiveCalPro

(5) Close P3D

(6) For each client....start ImmersiveDisplayPro and load ProCalib files.....Right click -> Click "External Calibration" -> Load and save files

(7) Restart P3D....Right click on window to be sure that "ImmersiveCalPro" box is ticked.

All should be fine!

Now if you want you can adjust brightness and brightness gradient etc. for your overlap areas within ImmersiveDisplayPro.  The thing is I have never been able to achieve that to my satisfaction.  I also find that I need to periodically adjust the overlap grid.

So for those reasons I am now using a butted display setup rather than an overlap display.  To achieve that I run a 4:3 display mode in 1600X1200 resolution for my Optoma HDs.  The advantages are: (1) the overlap gradient area is completely eliminated, (2) there is a bit more tolerance regarding periodic adjustment (that is, slight out-of-adjustment is less noticeable), (3) there is greater pixel density covering the exact same screen real estate since my projectors are moved closer to the screen in the 4:3 mode and there are no "wasted" ("duplicated") pixels in an overlap region (this gives a bit sharper display), and (4) performance is a bit improved since there is about 8% less total pixels to generate.  In particular, night flying is significantly improved with the butted method.

The disadvantage of course is that I have a fine line of demarkation at the butts. So it is a matter of preference in that regard.  For me, once I get to flying I do not even have an awareness of such...the off-brightness overlap bothers me more.  But I do realize that this is a matter of preference.

But all that is is getting somewhat off-topic here.

Fred K

[Trevor Hale]

For me, once I get to flying I do not even have an awareness of such...the off-brightness overlap bothers me more.  But I do realize that this is a matter of preference.

Man I need to get out to see your setup one of these days.... 

[FredK]

Man I need to get out to see your setup one of these days....

All are very welcome any time!

Fred K

[brianwilliamson]

Many thanks Fred for such a detailed reply...........

Have done everything as far as I can tell, but am still getting an image on the screen that is not aligned correctly, even though the preview in Cal Pro is perfect.
I was going to insert some pictures here but It seems that I am not able to get them in.

One thing of note that you mentioned was right click on the P3D window to get ViewGroups and click on Immersive Cal Pro. For some reason there is no checkbox there and it does nothing when I click on ImmersiveCalPro.

So it seems I still have a problem with getting ViewGroups to function.

Up until then everything appears to be ok.

Will go and do some more testing and if I can find a solution will reply here.

Cheers...............Brian W.

[tennyson]

Hi Brian and all the Guru's here.

I thought you sorted those problems out a while back, Brian. Sorry, mate, I'd have given you a hand, if I could.

The truth is, I been waiting to do another re-calibration with the new software and I been lazy just doing the old .fxml insert instead of using the View Groups.

Thank you to Fred for his generous info, I will follow his wonderful instructions now and see if I can circumvent using those darn pesky .fxml files!

I was also not aware of doing the final adjustments outside of Calibration Pro for the blending.

Thanx Guys, I also appreciate the great exchange of info that happens on this forum, it's worth it's weight in gold....


Frank

[brianwilliamson]

Gooday Frank, yes I had it working ok until I decide to upgrade !! I keep forgetting the old saying "If it ain't Broke "...............
I must be close because here is the picture after all the main things are done.

Cheers.............Brian W

[FredK]

One thing of note that you mentioned was right click on the P3D window to get ViewGroups and click on Immersive Cal Pro. For some reason there is no checkbox there and it does nothing when I click on ImmersiveCalPro.

Hmmm......That is odd.   In that menu there should be 2 items for ViewGroups showing...."None" and "Immersive Calibration Pro" with a checked checkbox in front of it.  So something has to be awry with your ViewGroups setup I think.

Also, for the picture that you posted are you absolutely sure that WideView was running?  It could be that WV was not on and the exact positions of the aircraft were not synchronized across projectors which would result in that kind of discontinuity.  But that really does not appear to be the case here I think.

This is disappointing. 

Fred K

[brianwilliamson]

OK got it.............................

Had to go into  C:\Users\mine\Documents\Prepar3D v3 Files and change the .fmxl file that I have saved for the start-up flight and get rid of the "windows" file that I had installed there for the previous version.

Then the box for Immersive Cal Pro was ticked of its own accord.

So all looks good except for the Blending.

Fred, you mentioned using Immersive Display Pro to re-do the blending. Not sure how you can do that with P3d running or do you use another picture somehow.

Again many thanks for the information Fred as that helps straighten out the manual a whole lot.

Regards...............Brian W.

[FredK]

That is good news!

For the gradient blending you do that outside of P3D.

Go into "Configure" at the bottom of the main Immersive Display Pro window. Explore there and you will find adjustable settings for your parametric settings (gain, slope, gamma).  You can also adjust "black offset" and the blending gradient.  There are several screen projection options for evaluating the changes on the fly.

Good luck with all that...I have never been able to get it perfect....reasonable but not perfect.  Adjusting "black offset" to within a 0.15-0.17 range seems to help for me.

Fred K

[brianwilliamson]

Just had a fiddle with the blending in Immersive display, but is very hard because of the graphics. It really needs a full picture a P3D scene to get the colours etc all set.

I have to say that the new version seems a little smoother.

I have just bought an i1 Profiler to try and get the colours exactly the same on all 3 projectors which should help the blending.

Thanks for the info.......................Brian W.

[FredK]

I have just bought an i1 Profiler to try and get the colours exactly the same on all 3 projectors which should help the blending.

Anyone here have any experience using this?

Brian - Keep us updated on the i1 profiler results.

Fred K

[brianwilliamson]

Will let you know how this turns out.
I have to make a bracket to put the device on top of the shell to get enough distance from the screen as I tried it a couple of feet away which did not work.

...........Brian W.

[Flying_Fox]

I also was struggling with the Immersive Calibration manuals. However,  I didn't have blending problems - for daytime flying blending was practically perfectly generated with ViewGroups setup from the first time - no adjustments applied.

Here is the daylight approach to Gibraltar - both blending areas are in the picture, but practically are not visible. Two thin vertical lines are actual physical gaps between the screen sheets. And my left projector is a different model and has a better contrast, different from two others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAsZyLKSLg4


So far I only did one round for warping/blending with Immersive Calibration Pro. Later will return to calibration for more precise grid alignments and will try to create the second version with blending for night flying.

Nick

[FredK]

Nick -

That is about the best I have ever seen!

Fred K

[brianwilliamson]

Great video Nick......wish I could get mine that good on the blending. I will keep working at it.

I suspect some of the problems may come from the optoma GT 1080 settings. Seems hard to get enough brightness on some settings.

The i1Profiler is not all that useful yet, as it needs a lot of instructions to get it all on the right track.

Enough to keep me busy I suspect.

............Brian W.

[FredK]

Nick

What projectors are you using?

Fred K

[tennyson]

Hey Guys.
I hope that Brian is on the right track now.

As I said earlier, I am doing a week of maintenance and upgrades before I launch into my "No Visa Required" American/Canadian Tour.

Part of the upgrades and maintenance was to go back and do another calibration and blend, more applicable to night flights.

Thanx to all the valuable info here, I'm now going to go the view groups method instead of the old writing the .fxml script.

I started yesterday and one of the issues I've always faced when doing calibrations, was the accuracy of the distances between columns and rows.

So, I've adapted a few new strategies, based on the way some of the pro's do it.

Firstly, I started a new calibration using the latest software and saved out the file. I set all my measurements and parameters within the settings.

From that, I used the calculated distance of the column and the row, to produce a template (from thin MDF).
I then created, using photoshop, a page of red boxes with black cross hairs on them, and printed them on transparent sticky paper.

Then, I physically used the template to measure the distance, starting from the bottom of my screen, and place the stickers on the screen, at the appropriate points.

I know that you end up, using these methods, with accumulated error, so I did take this into account.

I ended up doing half the screen and to my surprise the accuracy was astounding.

I wanted to test this method, so I cranked up Calibration Pro and mapped the left screen according to the red boxes with the cross hairs.

The time it took to physically map the screen certainly paid off in the amount of time made up mapping the co-ordinates.

I was so impressed with the results. I still have the second half of the screen to finish tomorrow, but it will end up being the best calibration I've done so far.

Thanx again, to all of those guru's who contributed to this very worthwhile thread,



Frank

[Flying_Fox]

Nick

What projectors are you using?

Fred K

Hi Fred,

Initially (that was in 2011) all three were Optoma GT720 (1280 x 800). Left projector failed and was replaced with Optoma GT750 a couple of years later.

Nick