Advice on room size

[fsaviator]

I need some advice, guys.

I am shopping for a new home in Tampa and I've got to make some decisions on where to put my sim.  I'm limited in where I can look in order to ensure my daughter is in a top rated school, and to keep my commute to work to about an hour.

That leaves me with very few options.  To this point I've kept my sim room size to a minimum of 10'x12' based on past builds and my projectors.  Unfortunately things are getting snapped up and all I can find now are a max of 10'x11'.

If I buy 3 ultra short throw HD projectors can I get my 200 deg screen and a full shell in to an 11 foot wide by 10 foot deep room with minimal shadowing?

Building a hangar is not an option.

Thanks

[RayS]

If I had to do it all over again, I'd go as big as possible. My sim is just a twin Beechcraft but even with a room 11 feet deep and roughly 16 feet wide, it is cramped.

Depending on the screen you use, I'd give yourself at least 14 feet in width to accommodate the screen and some room to work around it. Depth I'd say would be around 16'. If I recall you're building a 737? I think width to accommodate the screen width is slightly more important than depth. My current sim room is 11' deep and I can barely work around it. You're no stranger to this hobby and having the room to accommodate the sim, peripherals, computers, makes things a bit easier.

In Tampa you'll be close (relatively speaking) to Sam... Hope to see you at an upcoming WF event!

[blueskydriver]

Hey Warren,

Luckily, my black paint for my sim is still on the ceiling and that shows the area size of my screen curve, so when looking at it you get the general idea of the measurments. Notice the wood strips in the pic? Those are 4' apart from each other and the drywall under them is 4'x8' sheets. So, the front to back is 13' and the side to side is a few inches shy of 16'.

However, I must add that my screen came back around way past the back windows, to the point where I added a large wooden structure which housed the back wall, jump seat and door. In your case, are you using a FDS shell? If so, how far is the throttle assembly from the front firewall, as well as the overall front to back sizing.

Also, in my case, the screen was about 7' out from the projectors and those were directly above the throttle assembly on my B737 sim. Therefore, the next question is, can you live without the two back windows being used? If yes, you might be able to make it work with your room sizing, but it'll be close; unless, you can get the projectors back further and as close to the ceiling as possible and I mean kissing the ceiling close by mouting them upside down.

Have you thought about just going with 5 large lcd monitors like Scott did? I know there is a difference in perspective, but in your case you have a very tight area like he does. Plus, will you ever move again?

John

[fsaviator]

I know guys...  that's what I was worried about.  I can make it work with 12' as I have, but I'm not getting that right now without paying $20+K more for a house.

I'm thinking it's time to go Scotts route with the flat screens and get back to flying.

Thanks!

[blueskydriver]

How high are the ceilings that you're looking at? That would be very important too know, mine is 9' high... If you can get higher like 11'-12' you'd be able to move the projectors back further before seeing shadows of the shell top. Even a foot higher can make a big difference in projector throw, so look for the height in the rooms of the houses you're looking at.

John

[fsaviator]

Good point, thanks John.

[fsaviator]

Well, I solved the problem...

I just got a signed contract back and as longs as the VA financing doesn't go off the rails the house I just committed to buying has a 16x16 media room!!!  That means I have a 16x16 Sim room now!  I will finally have enough space to put this back together properly!

[blueskydriver]

Room height?

[fsaviator]

Based on pictures it looks like a peaked ceiling.  9 foot at the two sides, top of peak unknown.

Based on the orientation I want to use the low sides of the ceiling will be to the front and back.

Playing around It looks like I'll be able to use my existing hard mount for the projectors so no real math or fiddling to do other than getting it centered up.

I'm looking at a 220 degree screen with a 92 inch radius.  That will allow for 2x4 or 1"inch conduit behind the screen.  Still deciding whether I go with my tried and true fiber board screens (eight panels) or buy a canvas screen from John's screen buddy and build a steel conduit framework for it.  It looks like I need (quick math) 30' x 6' screen.

John, to this point, I've never used the rear most windows. I just never had the room.  In fact I covered them with translucent paper so you still got light bleed-through but couldn't see through them.  I tpeels right off.

My quick sketch up model shows I'll be looking good for the rear windows this time!

Thoughts?

[fsaviator]

To give you an idea, here is what I threw together a couple of week ago at my current house.  A little pissed as I get to tear it down this weekend.

I converted my dining room into a sim room (see the first pics) by building a shelving unit to close of the walkway and covering the decorative openings with some canvas prints I had made to order.  The box on top of the shelving unit hides an exhaust fan that pulls heat out of the room.





This room is 12' (which is the same as the width I used in Germany).  I get plenty of screen real estate and the cut-off areas to the rear don't bother.  I could warp them out but I wouldn't have as high/wide a screen then.















With an extra four feet diameter I can warp them out and still get a 5.5' image height with a total of 30 foot curved screen.

I emailed Carls' for screen advice and a quote

Thoughts?

[blueskydriver]

Hi Warren,

Awesome!!! Glad to hear you're getting the needed space and I know you'll be happy once everything is back in working order...with a larger area!

Great that you're going to Carl's Place to get your screen, you will not regret it. Getting a screen from him was the best choice I ever made. Speaking of mine, here is link back to the thread that Sean and I had once he got one:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=2221.0

As for my sizing, it was 8'x34' with the bungee grommets every 6 inches. Why the 34' length? Well, even though it goes back much more then the rear windows, it gave me extra material because I knew someday I would build the shed and I would have that material too cover the larger area or bigger radius without buying a new screen.

Make sure you buy the bungees from Carl's Place along with the screen, they're exactly what you'll need. Once you have them in your hands it'll make sense over just any other bungee. Additionally, when you build your frame, include extra length and width for bungee attachment and stretching. I am not sure how that will be with conduit because it can flex on longer runs, I'd say just have more vertical runs of 2"x4" spaced evenly apart. Another thought is when you build your primary frame and where the top, bottom and two sides of conduit are attached to the primary, make sure they're out at least an inch or more, so your screen will not touch anything else.

Why do this? Well, if your vertical support 2"x4"s are touching the screen you might see indentations from them and over time dust will collect there before the rest due to the extra tightness, ever so small it'll be, you'll then see dust lines forever. That leads me to this aspect...never touch the screen with your hands (use non-latex or non-powder gloves) or let it touch anything else, like the floor. In fact, put new plastic sheeting down on the floor and have a person or two help you.

Explain to them why it cannot get dirty or show dirt anywhere! Wait, you're family knows this kind of stuff with you being military, so they'll get it. Still, I'd tell them why, with your extra "300 yard stare" down...lol! Seriously, do take all the precautions and if you need more details, ask Karen she did mine with me constantly saying "...no dust, no dirt, don't let it touch...OMG!!!...". Yep, that was me alright. Oh, it was the same thing when we took it down, but I had her blowing off any unseen dust with the air compressor hose for a couple of hours. Then, she had to fold it in a way to not cause creasing, as well as not getting it dirty while doing so...took another hour.

Anyway, if you look at that old post you'll see how I had the plastic pvc piping about an inch out, using conduit clamps, from the old panel screen I had tried beforehand. I figured why tear down an already made curved structure, just to make another one out of 2'x4's and plastic pvc tubing? Of course I'll likely follow your lead on how you build your frame for my new setup in the shed aka hanger.

Lastly, does the room have any windows or doors in the way, as well as where are the HVAC duct vents? With windows, I am sure you know this already, but you'll have to cover them depending on where they are; especially, if they're behind the screen. As for doors, that's easy to handle, just orientate away from it; although, if you have a closet behind the screen forget using it. Now that I think of access, the one problem I had was access to the front of the sim and getting in between it and the screen. My suggestion is to place everything (computers and such) to the back of the sim and thereby eliminating or limiting the need to get up there. Of course you'll need to get up there every once in a while to work on your MIP, but if you build your setup with that thought ahead of time, you'll have no problems or at least very few.

Concerning HVAC duct vents, if they're anywhere near your screen close them and place tape over them or remove the vent, insert a thin sheet of metal just under the top of the vent to prevent any movement of your screen caused by air drafts. Or, you could place a deflector on the vent too keep the vent working without causing draft effects on the screen.

Best Regards,

John

Ps. One last thing, paint the entire room (not woodwork though) flat black before you do anything. Also, if you want to go all out, paint the 2"x4"s and conduit with clamps flat black as well. One thing I found was reflections did not exist by painting it all flat black...

Pss. Once you get to the new house and check it out, look and see how many electrical outlets you have, then get what you really need added to the room before you move in. Simple way is have a 50-100amp sub-panel with 12-24 circuit breakers ran to the room, then buy the hardwire type power strips like I did and place them (mount) where you need them. Run the circuits using on wall flex mount shielded cable (I think it's called BX). By using a sub-panel, you'll have the breakers in the same room and if you want too go even further, have a large emergency safety throw switch between the sub-panel circuit breaker panel and the main cable running to it; this will give you full control over the electrical usage for your new "SIM ROOM!"

[fsaviator]

OK!  Sorry I've been comms out for a while but this last minute move to Tampa while juggling a full time day job has consumed most of my time.

Anyway...  I'm wrapping up here in the Pacific Northwest and will be hitting the road to Tampa on the 24th.  I will be in Colorado Springs for a couple days enroute and then will arrive in Tampa on 5 August.  I've had to lease a Penske truck to haul the 737 simulator and all my GA stuff down there so as to not bust my weight limit again on this move.

The house I bought has a 16x16 sim room so I will finally be set.  Now I just need to assemble everything and get it up and running when I get there.

I took great notes and copious photos of my disassembly... which I apparently lost when my HDD crashed last year just before my backup so this should be fun.  I did take the time to label every part when I took it apart and I just hope all the labels haven't fallen off over the last eighteen months it has sat packed up in my garage

More too follow but who is in the Tampa area that wants to help me unload the truck on 6 August?  I'll provide food and beverage!  I have one day to download the truck and get it turned it that evening!

[jackpilot]

Hi Warren

Commuting with the engine in your back is no pain for sure...

You too got ransomed by Photobucket
I switched to ImageShack, much faster no adv and very reasonnable $
Jack

[fsaviator]

Absolutely, Jack!  I'll tow it across the country though.

I am a little pissed at photobucket.  Oh Well.

[navymustang]

Warren, Welcome to Florida. My daughter-in-law lives in Tampa and I am there somewhat often on business. I live in north Orlando. If you need anything, drop me a line.
Jim

[fsaviator]

Absolutely, Jim.  Thanks!

[jackpilot]

The Florida connection... wait for Axel and Sam to chime in!

[fsaviator]

I'm tracking Sam....  I hope I can carve away time to go help him get his baby up and running for Worldflight.

[Caflyt]

Warren,
From another "Team Florida" member...
Welcome to FLA!!!
Hope your AC system is up to the task 

Hope to get up to see you at some point, I am south in Boca Raton.

Craig