Hello From Cambridge UK

[Andrew 737]

Hi Everyone

I am Andrew and I would like to introduce myself and say hello 

I am Building a 737 Cockpit and have been struggling to understand how to get surround Visuals. I have played with WidevieW, Triple Head To Go and Nvidia Titan.

I have not yet been successful because my knowledge is very poor; so I hope to make new friends and to learn how this is done

Thank you

Andrew

[Kennair]

Hi Andrew and welcome, would love to see pix of your pit, we always love pix. 

Give us some more information about your visuals, how many monitors, how you've got them setup, etc.  We'll be able to sort you out.

Ken.

[Andrew 737]

Hi Ken

Firstly thank you for your kind greating and reassuring words.

At present I have 3 lots of 3 screens on 3 sims all set up!

One with 3 x 23inch monitors @ 1920 x 1080 and TH2GO, another the same with lower res monitors, these are in my sons room and he is sleeping so will check tommorow and post; the other rig is on my bench, again 3 x 23 inch monitors and this is where I'm testing. Trying to see if I can get the Perf using three separate windows.

I have nothing set up as such as I have so many PC's, wideview and hardware etc so am flitting between them all.

In the end I want 3 projectors running off a new GTX 780 which I ordered today (sent the Titan back!) Perf was awful running nvidia surround.

I need to know what 3 projectors to get; probably not 1920 x 1080 as I would prefer the performance to hi res.

Can I set up on one of these PC's a visuals test setup or do I need to build my curved screen first?

I know this all sounds crazy but I have been sold promises for the last 2 years to no avail and am on the brink of Quitting! 

I will take photos of everything tommorow so you get a better idea of where I'm at.

Before I took the sim to bits my complete cockpit was working but on a 60 inch monitor which was nice but like everyone else would love the 180 degree dream.

I hope this all makes some sort of sense

[Kennair]

Hi Andrew, no problem setting up one of your PC's to test the visuals.  As long as you are using monitors with the same or similar resolution to your intended projectors it will give you the same performance gauge.  If you don't intend using full HD projectors then you'll likely use a widescreen res of 1280 x 800 so either use 3 monitors with a similar res or adjust your monitors to something similar in Windows.  Set up the 3 undocked view method in your FLT file and run FSX.  You can do all the tweaks and prep work on the bench before buying the projectors or building the wrap around screen.

If you don't know how to setup the 3 undocked views, read the recent thread on using 3 windows vs 4 windows which details the setup for your flt file.  Any further questions just ask.

Ken.

[Andrew 737]

Hi Andrew, no problem setting up one of your PC's to test the visuals.  As long as you are using monitors with the same or similar resolution to your intended projectors it will give you the same performance gauge.  If you don't intend using full HD projectors then you'll likely use a widescreen res of 1280 x 800 so either use 3 monitors with a similar res or adjust your monitors to something similar in Windows.  Set up the 3 undocked view method in your FLT file and run FSX.  You can do all the tweaks and prep work on the bench before buying the projectors or building the wrap around screen.

If you don't know how to setup the 3 undocked views, read the recent thread on using 3 windows vs 4 windows which details the setup for your flt file.  Any further questions just ask.

Ken.

Hi Ken

I should probably use my sons sim as this triple head is running at 3840 x 1024 so this is Close to the projector resolution you mentioned - I will try and get the exact res of 1280 x 800 though.

When you say undocked do you mean windowed mode? I ask as I cannot seem to move the 'new views' off the actual monitor FSX is running on, if I set the res in FSX to 1280 x 1024. It locks the other two monitors out - maybe I have to set something in the Matrox CP?

I have Maurice's dummies Guide and have read the thread you mentioned too - if you could give me a heads up on the above questions re windows that would be great

Sincere gratitude

[Maurice]

Andrew,

You seem to be missing something very basic here.  FSX needs to run at the ultimate resolution you will have once you have your 3 projectors or monitors. You say that your FSX PC is running at 1280x1024 and that will never let you set up a wraparound display at that resolution.

If your future projectors have a native resolution of 1280x800, FSX would need to run at 3 times that or 3840x800. The only way for FSX to be able to display & run at that resolution in the Graphix properties is if your overall displays resolution is 3840x800

So, first thing to do is to set up your FSX PC resolution so that it says 3840x800. Did you setup Nvidia surround in your video card and if yes, you should have an extended window that spans the 3 monitors and if you do have an extended desktop,  what is the screen resolution that you see in the FSX PC. Don't worry about FSX itself right now.

Maurice

[Kennair]

Andrew,

Sorry I should have been more specific, that 1280x800 resolution I mentioned was for each projector, and when 3 are combined using either a Matrox TH2GO or Nvidia Surround results in a total windows resolution of 3840x800 and yes FSX needs to have this resolution selected in its Display settings also.  As Maurice pointed out you need this widescreen resolution in order to get a full 180 or 210 degree FOV.  When I talk about undocked views I'm not particularly talking about being in Windowed mode, you run these separate views in Fullscreen for greater performance and window border reduction or removal (removal is done in your warping software but don't worry about that until you've built your curved screen).

First of all get your 3 screens setup using a TH2GO or surround then set FSX to the same wide resolution then we can go from there.  It's a huge topic the whole view system but then what isn't with home flightsims? 

Ken.

[Andrew 737]

Hi Ken

I am going to take some photos and make some experiments; I will post my results along with my cfg's later and then you will probably see where I'm going wrong!

That said I do feel more confident having read Maurice's guide and the thread you pointed me to.

So off I go and I be back later

As ever sincere gratitude

EDIT - Photos here:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3402.0

[Andrew 737]

Andrew,

You seem to be missing something very basic here.  FSX needs to run at the ultimate resolution you will have once you have your 3 projectors or monitors. You say that your FSX PC is running at 1280x1024 and that will never let you set up a wraparound display at that resolution.

If your future projectors have a native resolution of 1280x800, FSX would need to run at 3 times that or 3840x800. The only way for FSX to be able to display & run at that resolution in the Graphix properties is if your overall displays resolution is 3840x800

So, first thing to do is to set up your FSX PC resolution so that it says 3840x800. Did you setup Nvidia surround in your video card and if yes, you should have an extended window that spans the 3 monitors and if you do have an extended desktop,  what is the screen resolution that you see in the FSX PC. Don't worry about FSX itself right now.

Maurice

Hi Maurice

I am very sorry but I missed your post. Thanks for the input.

With regards to this main window if the res is set to 3840 x 1024 in FSX, Matrox CP and in Windows If I am in full screen mode I cannot resize the main window - I am hoping this can be done in the saved flt file?

Have I missed something?

Thank you

[Maurice]

With regards to this main window if the res is set to 3840 x 1024 in FSX, Matrox CP and in Windows If I am in full screen mode I cannot resize the main window - I am hoping this can be done in the saved flt file?

Have I missed something?

Thank you

Andrew,

You are trying to do this the very hard way. You are right about not being able to resize a window when in full screen mode but don't bother trying to resize the windows manually. Everything can be done through the flt files and the spreadsheet I refer to in my document.

If you follow my instructions to the letter, you should be up & running in no time. These instructions set you up with 3 views and a hidden full screen view and once that's working, you can then try the 3 view method as described in the post from Nick in this forum.

Don't despair...you're almost there

Maurice

[Andrew 737]

With regards to this main window if the res is set to 3840 x 1024 in FSX, Matrox CP and in Windows If I am in full screen mode I cannot resize the main window - I am hoping this can be done in the saved flt file?

Have I missed something?

Thank you

Andrew,

You are trying to do this the very hard way. You are right about not being able to resize a window when in full screen mode but don't bother trying to resize the windows manually. Everything can be done through the flt files and the spreadsheet I refer to in my document.

If you follow my instructions to the letter, you should be up & running in no time. These instructions set you up with 3 views and a hidden full screen view and once that's working, you can then try the 3 view method as described in the post from Nick in this forum.

Don't despair...you're almost there

Maurice

Hi Maurice

Just to check 'your instructions to the letter' is this the dummies guide I'm reading?

If so I will read it a few more times and try again.

What will the hidden full screen view be? (just curious even though I won't see it)

I can't thank you enough

[Maurice]

Yes, the 'dummy guide' I wrote. The hidden window will just be a view pointing to the sky with a zoom factor of 512. So if you were to close all 3 visible windows, you would then see a blank light blue window assuming clear daytime weather. At night, the view would just be a black screen.
It will all make sense once you get it going.

Maurice

[Andrew 737]

Yes, the 'dummy guide' I wrote. The hidden window will just be a view pointing to the sky with a zoom factor of 512. So if you were to close all 3 visible windows, you would then see a blank light blue window assuming clear daytime weather. At night, the view would just be a black screen.
It will all make sense once you get it going.

Maurice

Thank you For clarifying - I will let you guys know how i get on.

[Andrew 737]

Yes, the 'dummy guide' I wrote. The hidden window will just be a view pointing to the sky with a zoom factor of 512. So if you were to close all 3 visible windows, you would then see a blank light blue window assuming clear daytime weather. At night, the view would just be a black screen.
It will all make sense once you get it going.

Maurice

Hi Maurice and Ken

I have been trying some things out this evening and needless to say even though I read Maurice's guide 5 times I encountered every single one of his 'warnings'!!

Please can I take this thread here:

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3402.0

I am conscious that this is an intro forum and I seem to be racking up replies! - I don't want to annoy the Mods

[English Rebel]

Could someone please point me to where Maurice's dummies guide is as a search doesn't return anything.
Thanks
Alan

[fordgt40]

Alan

I have just posted it at the end of this thread rather than go off topic

http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3402.msg26809;topicseen#new

David

[HarryZ]

Hi Andrew,

I went through the same exercise as you last summer and continue to try and improve my set-up.

When it comes to using a curved screen and 3 projectors I would suggest projectors that have a short throw lens vs a regular lens.  Short throws allow you to place your projectors quite close to the screen avoiding any shadow casting if they are too far back.

Using Nvidia's 700 series GPUs,  you will have the ability to use their surround view feature.  It handles that slightly better than the TH2G and removes a layer of latency that can cause a loss of a couple of frame rates in FS X.

I would suggest short throw projectors that have a native resolution of 1280 x 800 and stick with that resolution.  When using the surround view feature, it will give you a 3840(1280x3) x 800 resolution which will appear as a choice in FS X's graphic display option. It is NOT a good idea to push beyond a projector's native resolution because of the way projectors try and handle that higher level.  Believe me, I've been there and done that!

You will also need edge blending software to change the flat projection thrown by the projectors to fit a curved screen. This software also handles the overlap lighter area that results when projector images overlap each other.  It takes some work but the end result can be very rewarding.  Without sounding like a promo, I'm commercially involved in this kind of software so please PM me if you want further info in this area.

Projection on a curved screen in FS X can be great but it does take a lot of planning and patience.

Harry

[Andrew 737]

Hi Andrew,

I went through the same exercise as you last summer and continue to try and improve my set-up.

When it comes to using a curved screen and 3 projectors I would suggest projectors that have a short throw lens vs a regular lens.  Short throws allow you to place your projectors quite close to the screen avoiding any shadow casting if they are too far back.

Using Nvidia's 700 series GPUs,  you will have the ability to use their surround view feature.  It handles that slightly better than the TH2G and removes a layer of latency that can cause a loss of a couple of frame rates in FS X.

I would suggest short throw projectors that have a native resolution of 1280 x 800 and stick with that resolution.  When using the surround view feature, it will give you a 3840(1280x3) x 800 resolution which will appear as a choice in FS X's graphic display option. It is NOT a good idea to push beyond a projector's native resolution because of the way projectors try and handle that higher level.  Believe me, I've been there and done that!

You will also need edge blending software to change the flat projection thrown by the projectors to fit a curved screen. This software also handles the overlap lighter area that results when projector images overlap each other.  It takes some work but the end result can be very rewarding.  Without sounding like a promo, I'm commercially involved in this kind of software so please PM me if you want further info in this area.

Projection on a curved screen in FS X can be great but it does take a lot of planning and patience.

Harry

Hi Harry

Thank you for the advice - I sincerely hope you don't mind if I ask others on the forum too?

I am already definitely planning to go short throw and 3840 x 800 - I don't think I will get the Perf I need going any higher. Thank you very much for informing me Matrox causes latency - these are all things I need to know so that's great.

I am going to PM you now

Thanks

[HarryZ]

Thank you for the advice - I sincerely hope you don't mind if I ask others on the forum too?

Andrew,

It's always best to ask for various opinions when it comes to cockpit building. What may work great for one person doesn't necessarily mean it will be great for you.

Harry