Question for ALL Members

[Bob Reed]

I think there is a few things that describes a serious builder over a wannabe.

A serious builder does what it takes to build his own aircraft dream. He has a unique patience and can visualize his dream in his mind at all times. He listen to what others say, but makes the decisions by himself. He never forget what his target/goal is. He is willing to learn new things to help the project progress. He spends serious amounts of time searching for the strangest keywords in search for gold. He understands that it is the time spent that counts for achieving the dream. Detail is better than quantity. (and he/she is probably divorced or will be  ).

A wannabee is easy to discover. They pop out with this: Heyyyy, I am new here, I am going to build a complete 737 for a 1000 euro, can you help please? Where can I find a complete set of drawings? How much for a CDU did you say? 500 bucks? you are kidding???

And he is gone


It is not the aircraft type that describes a serious builder. But the time spent to achieve his goals. 

EGG ZACKT LYYYYYYYyyy!! 

[ivar hestnes]

What I am missing is new builders, or builders that have been doing something for a little while, posting some of their progress. New builders=new inventions 
Thats what we like to see.


For sure there is many clever builders out there, with great projects, that dont post their work. I wonder where all the GA guys are. And the fighter-builders. Basically we are almost only jetliner builders here.

Wonder if anyone ever has built their own Tower-sim for vatsim? A hardware vatsim tower. That would be cool to see 

[Boeing Skunk Works]

I think there is a few things that describes a serious builder over a wannabe.

A serious builder does what it takes to build his own aircraft dream. He has a unique patience and can visualize his dream in his mind at all times. He listen to what others say, but makes the decisions by himself. He never forget what his target/goal is. He is willing to learn new things to help the project progress. He spends serious amounts of time searching for the strangest keywords in search for gold. He understands that it is the time spent that counts for achieving the dream. Detail is better than quantity. (and he/she is probably divorced or will be  ).

A wannabee is easy to discover. They pop out with this: Heyyyy, I am new here, I am going to build a complete 737 for a 1000 euro, can you help please? Where can I find a complete set of drawings? How much for a CDU did you say? 500 bucks? you are kidding???

And he is gone


It is not the aircraft type that describes a serious builder. But the time spent to achieve his goals. 

^That needs to be stickied somewhere. Could we make this our site creed?

[jackpilot]

Talk about time, even at minimum wage that TQ already costs way more than the CDU Ivar is referring to!

[Trevor Hale]

LMFAO Ivar, and Mike.. Yes I have to agree we should sticky that for sure..  OMG it is so true..  Well add me to list list of divorcee's LOL.

Ivar, you summed that up perfectly..  the dedicated builder doesn't even need to be good at it, he just needs to want to do it the best he can, and enjoy doing it.. 

Trev

[Pegger]

As a complete newbee to the hobby, i think I can add that what everyone has said above is completely true.
I have spent many a night typing in obscure searches for some sort of info on my dream simpit.
I have followed every link I come across to try to learn more about what I want to know. I have netwroked with people in the aviation industry that have access to the info I need. I have doodled every idea or thought about how my cockpit will take shape, even though I am months away from cutting my first piece of wood or aluminum.
I considered many other forums before choosing this one, simply because the forum was not filled with "Hey how do I do it". I am a firm believer in "learn about what want to know and don't just try to find the easy answer".
I have already resolved myself to the fact that it may be a few years before I even get to fly in my simpit. I know that the costs and time involved in getting my simpit up and running will be quite high.

So all this from a newbee would probably answer your question. How do you attract more serious builders to the group? Pretty easy. Stay serious builders yourselves. I recognized it right away when I found your site.

Cheers,

Mike

[Sean]

Guys.

I typed out a reply to this late last night, but on re-reading it decided not to post as it could've been construed as confrontational, which definately was not my intention. Having slept on it, I am still uneasy with Trev's opening post.

There's no denying there are some talented builders here, and I'm absolutely certain that the other talented builders you seek have already discovered this site, otherwise how talented can they really be? But apparently they are not signing up in the numbers you hoped for.

I signed up as a matter of course, as soon as I discovered the site. It's for CockpitBuilders after all, isn't it? I didn't need to lurk around for a while in the background to see if I liked it. But I must confess, I struggle to spend much time here. There's too little real cockpit building going on, and most of the posts appear to be the same members congratulating each other on something or other.

Other sites (site) may have the occasional 'kid' signing up asking the same old questions, but does it annoy you that much to take 30 seconds to read their post if you happen to open it by accident? Threads like this only serve to alienate people who think they need to be ‘special’ to join up. I certainly don’t feel welcome here, hence my low post count.

In respect of quality versus quantity, my opinion is that there is not enough of either going on here, and it is this that is preventing new visitors signing up.

Trevor, this is not a dig at you. You kind of buck the trend here. It’s ironic that it should be you that started the thread. But the reply’s were oh so predictable, and pretty much sum up the atmosphere here.

Sorry to sound so negative, but you did post the question to ALL members. Perhaps I'm just not talented enough!

Sean

[Steve A]

One thing that has not been mentioned is Budget.. I personally dont have two cents to rub together  but its not stopping me trying to build a functioning flightdeck. Ok my overhead is a printout with a few switches and leds connected, but this year i shall be taking delivery of a probuilt one. It wont be high end but that along with my throttle will be my main projects for the next 12 to 18 months. The throttle will be completely homemade but it'll look the part and be a thousand times better than the crap i have now 
So because i use what is available to me like making my own knobs from mdf, simply because i cannot afford 7 euro per knob.... does this make me "not a serious builder" i think not! Over time ( a long time ) i will get the pro equipment.
I asked some really dumb questions in the beginning of my build and i'll continue to ask really dumb questions because i still consider myself a beginer but i'm still as serious as the core of members here.

I look to this site as a yard stick.... almost every build is something for me to try and emulate and something for me to aspire to and i have already learned a great deal from many members here either directly or from reading threads posted or from visiting the members own personal webspaces.
Many may sneer at my cardboard cutout brake pressure gauge on my mip, but i know i have this hobby because i love it and i'm in it for the long term and in time that gauge will be replaced with the real thing, but for now its just filling up what would be an empty space.

What i am trying to say is please dont consider a less financially fortunate builder to be less serious than a builder who is lucky enough to buy and fit the best to is simulator. Keep the site as diverse as it is.... from the awesome woodworking, fantastic 727's, cnc panel cutting... throttle builds etc etc.
I don't post here much... not because im inactive... i visit the site 2 or 3 times per day... i dont post because i like to just soak up the wealth of info and if its relevant to me implement it.
One of the first questions i asked ( not here ) was a question about wiring rotary's up... i had never used them in my life before and ok i could have googled it. I wasn't flamed or shown the door and it was actually a moderator on here that took the time to draw up a simple diagram and post it up for me in the most simple fashion aimed at a ten year old lol but from that it clicked for me and i went on and wired up all my switches and knobs to present.
A person could join up here like me who never had any experience of circuits or electronics and ask a dumb question simalar to mine... please dont think that person isn't "serious" about his or her build. We all have strengths and weaknesses. I spent 16 years stood at milling machines, lathes and cnc's and if i had access to machine tools now i would be showing you guys some serious strengths but unfortunately i dont so i can't.

Just from the current content here is enough to make people realise this site is for the committed builder and there a plenty of other places that accomodate desktop simmers and here today gone tomorrow types.

Keep up the good work 

Regards Steve

P.s I am divorced 

[ivar hestnes]

Sean, I am not Trevor but will try to give a small comment on your post anyway

I dont think you should put too much thought about the "talented" wording. We all know that no one is talented in all aspects of building a sim. There are many skills to learn. Still without me being Trevor  I believe that he means builders that actually do build a sim. Serious builders. In my opinion, a simulator is a device that would be a realistic representation of aircraft systems, hardware and visuals, for entertainment or professional use. Generic or type specific. A desk with a 19" screen, saitek equipment, keyboard and a VRinsight module is not a simulator/cockpit in my opinion. I think that is Trevors point with "talented". Try swapping "talented" with SERIOUS 
No one expects all builders to have all the skills or knowledge to put together a sim project. But I think it is mandatory to have the will to learn that. To invest some time for learning. OR for people that dont have the time to learn or build, it is possible to go to FDS and buy a complete functional setup. Installed and working. That would still be a serious project even if the builder is not talented by himself.

I dont think anyone should be afraid to ask any questions here. A question will always get a answer. And there is nothing as a stupid question. I cant remember that anyone has been "attacked" because of a question being asked. And I dont think it will happen either.

Congratulating each others: How can that be a bad thing. After all, when you have spent some time building something, feedback from the fellow builders around the world is the best motivation you can get. And it is also needed to keep the spirits up. Cockpit building is after all not comparible with stamp collecting Builders need feedback. To get feedback they need to make a post

I think the athmosphere is pretty good here. But of course, it is the members themselves to make the decision if they will make a post or not. This is absolutely NOT an elite builders exclusive club. And thats not Trevors point either. (Still without me being Trevor, lol). Why dont you give it a try Sean? Go make a project update post and see what happens? You have a good project

You say: In respect of quality versus quantity, my opinion is that there is not enough of either going on here, and it is this that is preventing new visitors signing up.
This will improve if people actually make a post about their work, instead of sitting on the fence. But of course it is voluntary to post. MAny people choose to be in the background for many reasons.
Some people consider it "bragging" if they make a post of their progress. And sadly some people consider it as bragging if someone actually make a post.
I think you are most welcome here Sean. As all other sim-builders. I like the variation of projects that is amongst the builders here :-)

[Bob Reed]

I agree with Ivar! And Sean, where do you see not enough talent in your build? I see someone with a lot of talent! The pics of your project are excellent and I enjoy looking at all the pictures posted here. Yes I think the word talent should be replaced by dedicated.... Because even if you do not see yourself as talented you must see yourself as dedicated? Only a dedicated person could build something like this?  Any question that has been asked here has been answered in a friendly manner and I don't think age has to have anything to do with it.

[ak49er]

To answer the OP's question, with a statment or two.

I have been floating around other forums as I am now using XPlane, and also concentrating on being able to use my Huey 'Pit as a combat sim.

On every forum, including Xplane.or6, SimHQ.or6 the posters reference the "sim pit builders" as amazing. When they are saying this they are very impressed with all of your guy's work, but many don't know where to find us/we/you. I am not sure about the correctness of mentioning other forums, as you can see by how I referenced the other two earlier.

Maybe going to other forums and directing them back here could help.

The Flight Sim community et. al is absolutely enamored by what we/us/you are doing.

The simpit sub threads on both of those sites are rather skimpy and some do not even seem to be aware of what or how any of this can be accomplished. Maybe some cross-advertising could come in handy here.

Even the most simple of builds (first time, "low-budget") are revered with true amazment, when referenced.

Most of these guys/gals are still flying desktops as many of us did, and do not know how simple some of this stuff can be.