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Can you run out of USB ports?

Started by navymustang, April 15, 2022, 12:20:55 PM

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navymustang

My sim is at a point I can't add any additional USB devices. I have two 6-port hubs and one 10-port hub, all powered and the voltages are good. The 10-port is USB 3 and plugged into a USB 3 port on the PC (with a USB 3 cable), the others are USB 2.

No matter where I plug in (back of PC, a hub or front of PC, same error:
"Insufficient resources exist to complete the API"

It also does not matter what kind of device, mouse, Arduino, Leo Bodner, etc.

I upgraded to the latest BIOS (Z87 CPU) and have the latest patches installed for Windows 10.

HELP !!!
My 737-800 full-scale cockpit has been sold. Now onto my full-size military helicopter project. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors. Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

RayS

April 15, 2022, 12:32:51 PM #1 Last Edit: April 15, 2022, 02:57:07 PM by RayS
I ran into that at one point. Make sure your hubs are of the "Multi Transaction-Totalizer" per port, not per hub.

Typically these are referred to as "Multi TT" hubs. Otherwise, Windows will try to manage a tsunami of data packets using only 1 traffic cop.

Difference between Single and Multiple TT USB Hubs

Also, make sure you aren't daisy-chaining your hubs together. And those cheap knockoffs don't work very well. (Just saying that as a matter of record)
Ray Sotkiewicz

RayS

April 15, 2022, 02:49:06 PM #2 Last Edit: April 15, 2022, 02:56:00 PM by RayS
Looked a bit closer on your images.  You might be out of COM ports as well.

You may have to go with a master/slave architecture for your arduinos.

This is exactly what Bob Reed and I were working on before he passed. We wanted 1 device as a the master with up to several as slaves. 
Ray Sotkiewicz

navymustang

OK, using substitute hardware I was able to confirm that it is not a USB hardware issue. That is, my hubs are fully functional.
And just for the heck of it I did a safe boot with the USB still operational. And OMG - all the USB ports started working as they should. So now I have to figure out a debug method to determine what is being loaded into memory that is limiting the USB ports. It is not any of the startup programs, I ran that test already. So there is something that Windows is loading (drivers, etc.) that is creating the issue. I thought at one time you could tell Windows to do a safe boot then step wise load all the additional stuff. I don;t see that option anymore. More reading ahead to figure this one out.
My 737-800 full-scale cockpit has been sold. Now onto my full-size military helicopter project. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors. Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

sagrada737

Hi Jim,

You might consider going back to a Restore point in your Windows computer to a time where you did not have this issue "pop up".  Although...   When Windows does an Update, it typically deletes previous Restore points.  That said, it is worth checking...

If you make "Image Disks" of your computer Op System and Data, you might try going back to an earlier Backup of your system.

Mike
-- Check your PM
Full-scale 737-800 Sim; P3d v4.5x with Sim-Avionics (two computers), FDS MIP,  FlightIllusion hardware.  3-Optoma ZH406ST Laser HD projectors, with 4K inputs from a single Nvidia RTX-3090 GPU, resulting in a 210 deg wrap-around display.  6dof Motion Platform using BFF 6dof motion software, driven by a Thanos Servo Controller to 6.2 KW Servos, Lever type actuators.

navymustang

I wish I could do that, but as you said, the latest Windows update killed my previous restore points.
Thanks
My 737-800 full-scale cockpit has been sold. Now onto my full-size military helicopter project. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors. Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

blueskydriver

Hey Jim,

Read this:

https://helpdeskgeek.com/help-desk/how-to-fix-not-enough-usb-controller-resources-on-windows-10/amp/

Why this doesn't happen in safe mode is because you're not using all the USB endpoint resources yet. Outta safe mode, your PC is using more of these endpoints that take away from your USB devices....

John  :D
| FSX | FDS-MIP OVRHD SYS CARDS FC1| PM | PMDG 737-700 | UTX | GEX | UT7 | ASE | REX2 | AES | TSR | IS | TOPCAT | AvilaSoft EFB | OC CARDS & OVRHD GAUGES| SIMKITS | SW 3D Lights | FS2CREW2010 | FSXPassengers | Flight1 AE | MATROX TH2GO-D | NTHUSIM | 3-Mits EW230Ust Proj |

paulnd

Quote from: RayS on April 15, 2022, 02:49:06 PMYou may have to go with a master/slave architecture for your arduinos.

This is exactly what Bob Reed and I were working on before he passed. We wanted 1 device as a the master with up to several as slaves. 

Hello, I'm interested in what you were planning, I'm thinking of something similar and weighing up a few options.

Paul

navymustang

My Arduino suite are all running under AirManager. So the Master/Slave concept is not necessary.
My 737-800 full-scale cockpit has been sold. Now onto my full-size military helicopter project. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors. Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

navymustang

Well, the endpoint issue might still be part of the problem, but I resolved it (for now) by just reducing the number of hubs I had. Turns out each time I plugged in a 10 port hub, it generated 5 additional hubs (shown in device manager). What the hell?
My 737-800 full-scale cockpit has been sold. Now onto my full-size military helicopter project. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors. Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

blueskydriver

Another idea is too make sure all hubs are the same speed, be it 3.0 or 2.0 and plugged into the same port type on the PC. Also, you probably don't do this, but avoid hub to hub...too many transfer points.

John
| FSX | FDS-MIP OVRHD SYS CARDS FC1| PM | PMDG 737-700 | UTX | GEX | UT7 | ASE | REX2 | AES | TSR | IS | TOPCAT | AvilaSoft EFB | OC CARDS & OVRHD GAUGES| SIMKITS | SW 3D Lights | FS2CREW2010 | FSXPassengers | Flight1 AE | MATROX TH2GO-D | NTHUSIM | 3-Mits EW230Ust Proj |

ame

This problem really should be solved with Ethernet. IMNSHO.

paulnd

Quote from: ame on April 22, 2022, 09:25:40 PMThis problem really should be solved with Ethernet. IMNSHO.

I agree completely and one of the options which I'm considering. When I started investigating arduino/ethernet a few years ago, the shields and libraries which I tried weren't that reliable - does anyone have any recommendations?

ame

Quote from: paulnd on April 23, 2022, 04:52:19 AM
Quote from: ame on April 22, 2022, 09:25:40 PMThis problem really should be solved with Ethernet. IMNSHO.

I agree completely and one of the options which I'm considering. When I started investigating arduino/ethernet a few years ago, the shields and libraries which I tried weren't that reliable - does anyone have any recommendations?

Well I started my experiments with an enc28j60 on an Arduino Nano. I could not do the UDP multicast stuff to get the X-Plane beacon packets, but that's ok because I could just set the server's IP address as a parameter in the Arduino.

I was able to issue requests for compass heading and instrument brightness (I was building an illuminated compass), and I saw the request in X-Plane's log, but I didn't seem to be able to get data from X-Plane. I suspect that X-Plane was correctly sending it to the originating IP address (the Arduino) but that the Arduino was not receiving it.

At that point some other stuff was happening, so I gave up.

I really ought to try again. I also have a Wiznet module which I could try.

Sticking an Arduino on the network would be a great solution to the problem of limited USB cable length and which Arduino am I talking to? That Arduino can do a lot of immediate work with switches, LEDs, and other peripherals, but it can act as a hub for other i2c modules (for example) or other Arduinii.

navymustang

As pat of my debug strategy I ordered a new 20 port USB powered hub.
In the instructions were the following lines:

To give access to all 20 ports you may have to open the BIOS and shut down XCHL mode and USB3.0 ports.

I have an ASUS board and found the settings, and sure enough all my USB devices are now online. OK, not at USB 3 speed, but none of the devices are data storage related, just drivers for low speed button and analog acquisition stuff.

I couldn't be happier. Now I can continue working.
My 737-800 full-scale cockpit has been sold. Now onto my full-size military helicopter project. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors. Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

FredK

Quote from: navymustang on May 01, 2022, 10:57:34 AMAs pat of my debug strategy I ordered a new 20 port USB powered hub.
In the instructions were the following lines:

To give access to all 20 ports you may have to open the BIOS and shut down XCHL mode and USB3.0 ports.

I have an ASUS board and found the settings, and sure enough all my USB devices are now online. OK, not at USB 3 speed, but none of the devices are data storage related, just drivers for low speed button and analog acquisition stuff.

I couldn't be happier. Now I can continue working.


Interesting...

What is XCHL mode?

What powered hub?

Fred K
Boeing 737NG-800, Prepar3D v4.5, Sim-Avionics 1.964, SimSync multi-channel (curved screen), Optoma 1080GTDarbee projectors (3), Fly Elise warping, FSGRW weather, FDS OH panels and CDUs, SimParts MIP, FDS SysBoards (OH), CPFlight MCPPro and pedestal panels, FI Gauges, PFC controls, converted motorized TQ (SIOC), Weber seats

navymustang

xCHL mode is in the BIOS and it is a software module that allows USB 3.0 ports on your computer to communicate at all speeds (USB 3, USB 2 and USB 1). Otherwise, the port only recognizes USB 3 devices.
The issue is that USB 3 eats up TREMENDOUS amounts of resources and if you follow this message post trail, you will see I ran out of available services with all the USB devices I have.
The only down side of disabling USB 3 is that all the blue USB ports on the back of your PC get shut down. However, the upside is that you can run a hell of a lot more USB 1 and USB 2 (black or white ports) devices.
The powered hub was an industrial strength unit I bought on Amazon for around $200.
My 737-800 full-scale cockpit has been sold. Now onto my full-size military helicopter project. An AOPA member and LifeTime member of National Association of Flight Instructors. Please note that I am a self-employed professional cockpit builder that provides consulting to defense contractors and civilian schools and airlines.

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