Folks, I have spent several hours in our 737 for this event. I think you are all in for a nice surprise. Sam and I spent last weekend doing some final tweaks and adding a couple programs that will enhance the experience. We have a couple videos I will try to get posted. We flew the sim a lot this past weekend and I am happy to report that the sim is ready for the plots. Now are the pilots ready for the sim? Sam and I found out we are not 100% ready. It will not matter. We will do our best but the main idea is to raise money for the hospital and have a good time. We will all be there to help each other. Do not worry about the rest. Do the best you can to get to know the 737-800 and from there you will learn fast, trust me. The event is coming very fast so get those tickets purchased and lets start making some noise about this event!
Thanks for the heads-up Bob. And a big thank you to you and Sam for all the prep work you have put into getting things ready for the CBWF event. Also, thanks for reminding us that this is for charity, and to have some fun flying around the world real-time.
Looking forward to meeting you and the others, and to have the fantastic opportunity to fly Sam's awesome Sim.
Best Regards,
Mike
Has anyone developed standard procedures for us to use yet?
It would be best to be able to study them ahead of time if there available.
Is there anything in particular we should be practicing?
Here are a couple of shots of the sim
Sitting in the active at LAX
[smg id=994]
[smg id=993]
Quote from: KyleH on September 14, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
Has anyone developed standard procedures for us to use yet?
It would be best to be able to study them ahead of time if there available.
Is there anything in particular we should be practicing?
We don't have any yet. Mike? Still lots to do....
WFT Sim is looking good, I just want to thank every one for your help, comment, contributions, can't do it without you guys help!!!
CHEERS,
SAM
Quote from: Bob Reed on September 14, 2013, 05:51:32 PM
Quote from: KyleH on September 14, 2013, 04:27:43 PM
Has anyone developed standard procedures for us to use yet?
It would be best to be able to study them ahead of time if there available.
Is there anything in particular we should be practicing?
We don't have any yet. Mike? Still lots to do....
I wrote to Mike about a month ago. He had responded that he was in the middle of a very busy schedule on his side at that time. I can ping him again and see if I can help do the work while he guides me on how he would like it written up.
To the point in question, these points were discussed, to name a few.
Practicing the basics such as use of checklists, startup, pushback, use of the FMS, LNAV, VNAV behavior, roll modes, use of flaps and flaps retraction schedule
In addition, use of charts, reading and complying with SIDs and STARs, and obtaining clearances.
Performing HOLDS is an important concept to practice.
Finally, COMMS. PilotEdge is an asset and helps immensely.
CPJ (firstinflight)
Great photos Bob! The Sim is looking good!
CP's comments seem solid. The intimidating aspect of getting all this right is a bit daunting. For those of us that are not real 737 Pilots/FOs (and maybe I'm the only one), it will be quite a challenge to "take charge" of the myriad cockpit management duties and responsibilities for the various phases of flight required for the WF event.
With all the Teams participating in this event, and the numbers of others following the flights along with the event, it's going to be a busy time staying in proper sync with everything that is going on. I can predict that there will be quite a few Holds issued into these airports, with the level of aircraft in the ATC system. Standard Holds as-published are not that complex, but unique holds spur-of-the-moment can be challenging.
Well... I'm not an expert at IFR, ATC or the 737 by any means, so I can imagine that I'll be holding on for dear life on occasion :laugh:
Mike
What to practice? How about flying the plane. i know i am very rusty. Flaps call out and all that is important as well but the plane helps with all that. So flying with ATC (Vatsim) and flying the plane that is the big 2 right now. All the rest IS important but this is my thought.
Sent a bunch of stuff over to your email Bob. Let me know if you have any questions.
Mike L
Quote from: MLeavy737 on September 15, 2013, 11:04:38 AM
Sent a bunch of stuff over to your email Bob. Let me know if you have any questions.
Mike L
Got it Mike going over it now.....
I have been practicing flying on VATSIM but have only found the time to log a few flights to this point. However I have gained a real appreciation for what is truly involved upfront in the cockpit.....and I have found it is real work with only a single pilot flying the plane. The experience is really very different from flying using programmed ATC like "Radar Contact" that I have exclusively used until recently. With two pilots flying the burden at least can be split....with one pilot dealing with the ATC and the other guy flying the plane.
With that in mind one suggestion I have is to take that into account in the flight segment assignment schedule. That is, as a goal have at least one guy in the cockpit who is proficient using ATC.....spread those guys out as much as possible (I realize that there may not be many to spread though). So I suggest that those of us here that do have any kind of ATC proficiency let Bob know. Certainly there should be someone in the cockpit at all times who at least has some experience with VATSIM.
A second suggestion I have is simply to do our homework by pre-flying our assigned segments several times prior to the event. That will make a hugh difference regarding familiarizing ourselves with airports and associated departure and arrival procedures. I am anxious to do that.
As mentioned by others I am sure it all will turn out to be much fun, and this will be an excellent opportunity to do some bonding with fellow cockpit builders who we may only know through this forum. I am certainly looking forward to it all!
Fred
Well I would like to get scheduling done but I have still not heard from everyone. So here it is, if you have sent me your details for the event we are going to schedule what we have. If you do not see your name and want to be included... Let us know........ Sorry I can not wait any longer......
Another thought....
Any golfers among us? I'm driving down and will bring my clubs with me.
Sam can probably clue us in to some neat golf courses in the area.
Fred
Plenty of golf courses around, one within walking distance!! Cheers.
Quote from: FredK on September 15, 2013, 05:01:24 PM
Another thought....
Any golfers among us? I'm driving down and will bring my clubs with me.
Sam can probably clue us in to some neat golf courses in the area.
Fred
I golf Fred and depending on dates your coming I might be up for bringing my clubs. I am currently planning on coming the last 4 days of the event because it seems there were a lot of people planning to come for the first 2 or 3 days leaving the latter half pretty empty.
We need to see the proposed schedule asap or at least a schedule of who will be available to fly each of the 7 days. I too would like to practice assigned routes throughout October and we are running out of time.
Bob, if you are overloaded I suggest pawning off the scheduling someone else. I believe CP volunteered at one point...
Is anyone getting time with PFPX? If we have a sudo expert on it then perhaps they could start working up packets for each flight.
Does WF use real world weather?
Sorry, lot of questions and suggestions but I think this all has to be hammered out really quick. October should be a training month for all pilots!
Scott
Quote from: XOrionFE on September 16, 2013, 03:44:17 AM
Quote from: FredK on September 15, 2013, 05:01:24 PM
Another thought....
Any golfers among us? I'm driving down and will bring my clubs with me.
Sam can probably clue us in to some neat golf courses in the area.
Fred
I golf Fred and depending on dates your coming I might be up for bringing my clubs. I am currently planning on coming the last 4 days of the event because it seems there were a lot of people planning to come for the first 2 or 3 days leaving the latter half pretty empty.
We need to see the proposed schedule asap or at least a schedule of who will be available to fly each of the 7 days. I too would like to practice assigned routes throughout October and we are running out of time.
Bob, if you are overloaded I suggest pawning off the scheduling someone else. I believe CP volunteered at one point...
Is anyone getting time with PFPX? If we have a sudo expert on it then perhaps they could start working up packets for each flight.
Does WF use real world weather?
Sorry, lot of questions and suggestions but I think this all has to be hammered out really quick. October should be a training month for all pilots!
Scott
Yes Scott I have done that. I will get the confirmed folks to Trev tonight and we should have a rough draft soon. ;D Very overwelmed at the moment and need to get time to practice my flying! Don't care about proceedures, Just need to be able to fly the plane! ;D
Hello Bob,
Per your request, I'm just about finished with formatting Mike Leavy's "737-800 Procedures Document". Mike has done an excellent job of condensing this material in an easy-to-understand outline - sans CheckLists. I will get the Draft to you in a few hours.
Scott's comments are valid. Don't let yourself get overwhelmed by the logistics. Please off-load some of this work to others so it doesn't pile up till the end. There are plenty of folks willing to help if they are aware of what is needed, and specifically directed as to what to do.
Concerning the "WF Time Schedule" that I prepared for you... I suggest that you send this spreadsheet to Scott, or someone else for a final review to ensure that the Start-Stop ZULU times are correctly entered. The point is... Someone else needs to check my work on this. I will continue working on the Procedures...
As for CheckLists... I'm sure that Sam has a 737-800 CheckList that he uses for his Sim - the one we all will be using. I need to get a copy of this so it can correlate properly with the Procedures that will be released soon - so there will be less confusion among the crew. If you are reading this Sam, please send me a copy of what you are using for a CheckList. Thanks.
After I complete cleaning up the Procedures document, let me know if there is anything else that I might help you with. I will do my best to be of assistance.
As for Procedures... It's true that getting the aircraft in the air and flying the aircraft can be handled in many ways. But we should not forget that we will be in the ATC environment, which will be intense at times. There will be significant challenges in keeping up with the airplane, and it will definitely involve some basic level of cockpit management and associated Procedures, all to synchronized with the WF ATC activity - especially related to Ground Ops, SIDs and STARs, and the various Approaches to be done - some of which may have some surprises, with respect to FMC setup, etc.
Anyway, I sense it is the 11th hour, and with exception to the 737 Pros, there is little time left to review and practice for this upcoming CBWF event. As a practical matter, there is no way that many of us will be able to practice all the upcoming WF Routes, with their wide assortment of SIDs, STARs and Approaches. In that regard, the previous suggestion of having at least one experienced Pilot on each route segment will be highly beneficial for the less experienced Crew.
Once again, thank for all your hard work and that of others helping to organize this first CBWF event. And as you point out, this is for charity and the fun of flying Sims.
Let us know if we can be of help.
Mike
Hi guys
I would like to encourage everyone who is not well versed on flying in a VATSIM environment that yes, it can be overwhelming at times, but if you take time now to remember some of the basics, mic fright will be much less of an issue when the event comes around. I'm certain seasoned pilots can do a better job of illustrating this but simply remember the following when contact ATC:
1- Contact the facility you are needing to talk with, and identify yourself. Then wait.
Ex- "Jax Center, November 1234 Alpha Bravo" Sometimes, depending on phase of flight and the situation, you may give them a little more information, perhaps your position or some other relevant info.
2) When given an instruction, simply read it back to them and end with your aircraft call sign.
Ex- "Cross WAYPNT at twelve thousand, maintain 180 and contact approach on 123.45, November 1234 Alpha Bravo".
Everything else will work its way out.
As for the aircraft- I imagine that everyone flying this event has flown at least the PMDG 737 desktop add-on, even if for FS9. If not, that'd be a great place to start. Please understand that yes, there are "proper" ways to fly this thing and some folks will do it better than others. Some of us wont have a clue if we are bungling up everything, but the best part is that it's only a sim. Let's do our best to fly properly, per the Checklists and Manual, but let's also understand that at times mistakes will happen, something important will be forgotten, and eventually some software or hardware will malfunction. It's part of the thing that is World Flight.
Lastly, Im sure that if at all possible, the sim will hopefully be crewed with at least one person fairly experienced in full sim flying in an online environment. Even if they are not well versed in the 737, the prior experience of a full scale sim + VATSIM will go a long way. I am one of these folks (Learjet 45 on my end with many hours in the VATSIM world). I would say if you have no full size sim, at the very least get online using your desktop sim and use VATSIM or Pilot Edge and in a few hours, you will be far more comfortable keying the mic.
One other note if I may... This is our first WF event... We are going to make mistakes, and we are going to overlook things that we shouldn't. What I want to encourage here is that we all have to have problem solving skills. If something comes up that is abnormal, or thrown at us, I want the Captain's to be able to shoot from the hip and handle the situation. Sometimes people over think things.. If I am not mistaken most of the crew have flown on vatsim before... Its not that hard, and you should not be intimidated by this.
Its simple...
Request clearence, get clearence, readback. (Before start check)
(after start Check)(Before Taxi Check)
request taxi, readback (FOLLOW AIRPORT CHART) (Before Takeoff Check)
Takeoff clearence - (MODE C)
(After takeoff check)
Cleared to depart, depart, follow the SID (Programmed into the FMC and on your lap)
Over to departure, Follow instructions
Over to Center, follow instructions.
(Enroute checks)
(TOD)
(Approach check)
(Over to approach, readback Program landing runway into FMC)
(Over to tower) (Before Landing Checklist)
Off the runway (After Landing Checklist) (MODE C OFF)
Over to Ground, follow taxi instructions (Airport Map)
(After Taxi Checklist)
(After Shutdown Checklist)
REBOOT THE SIM
If you can remember the above, you will do just fine.. There is always more then one way to skin a cat, all I ask is that NOBODY corrects their partners over the radio unless they are about to do something that will harm the aircraft or the flight. Wait for privacy to correct anyone. (we will be live on webcam, and across the world, we don;t need to look like fools) Its all for fun, and really if someone forgets to do something, its not the end of the world.
Trev
Thanks Trev- and where's the "Like" button. Good job.
Hey all,
Im finishing one more sim checkride this evening and ill be open to all procedures questions when you get a look at them. Sorry i've been extremely busy with various things lately and have not had much time to contribute but that all coming to an end :)
As far as the individual segments my suggestion is to just get comfortable using the FMC. As long as you can program the box every flight is exactly the same. You will always get from point A to B if the box matches the flight plan :)
Be back tomorrow :)
Mike L
I am going to throw one more suggestion out. I propose that between now and end of October we schedule one 1-2 hr Gotomeeting session per week on a weeknight from 8pm-10pm for all flight crew. We can cover 6-10 topices between now and November probably including perhaps RVSM, FMC Holds, Proper Climb and descent techniques with the Autopilot and MCP, Missed Approach procedures, VATSIM basics, Flows, etc. Each person with a expertise in a specific area could lead the session. Open discussion. I think this would be great.
Thoughts?
Scott
sounds good scott. I would be up for that.
Mike L
Good idea Scott. Count me in! Perhaps we should give GoToMeetings a trial run to see how the format works.
One thing I would like to understand better is re-loading the FMC after a Missed Approach. I get wrapped arond my axel (or FMC) when I try to set up the FMC for another try at the Approach when Released from the Hold. Asking for Radar Vectors is easy, but is there an easy way to re-load the FMC via the CDU APP function? Things like that would be of interest to me.
Mike
Mike,
Press Dep/Arr key, lsk 2r then reselect the approach. Thats it.
Mike L
Hi Folks;
I'm reading all this and I agreed with all the suggestions, BUT when is time to really load the FMC, fly the plane and everything else if there is not training involve, every suggestion and procedure goes down the drain, all it takes is to receive an ATC call you are not familiar with to screw up the flight, Please practice!!!!, Not in your own!!! Lets set up practice lessons following a professional, I recommend to find a professional to be in charge of this practice lessons, that way we all learn the same way. (right or wrong, preferable right) but most important the same way of doing this, I have the Original Boeing Operating Manual for the BBJ 737-800 on its original binder we can use. Also I have the 737 Operating handbook I'm sure Mike Leavy is familiar with it. is very simple if you follow the manual not everyone's manuals, don't misinterpret this post but is very important to follow one leader in order to succeed. :2cw:
I agree Sam. But when all else fails, get vectors. I have been in many situations on vatsim where the controller throws out the star and just provides vectors to make room for the other aircraft entering the zone.
Don't ever be afraid to take the aircraft off vnav/lnav or even hand fly it. The 737 won't bite.
I get the feeling everyone is worries about what to do if the Fmc messes up. It's simple. "Don't panic" take control of the situation and hand fly her. It's not the end of the world.
If you don't know how to input a hold on the fmc fly it manually.
Practise as much as you can but really at the end of the day just fly the airplane.
Nobody in atc land is going to yell at you for doing something different.
You have a first officer use him.
Trev
Regarding VATSIM procedures there are some very good video tutorials out there.
The following is a link for one of them. It is actually Part #5 in a series demonstrating the use of FSInn. However this particular part covers live VATSIM procedures during an actual flight....it is applicable for both SquawkBox and FSInn. It is very well done.
Vatsim & FSInn tutorial (part 5) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBF6-PFGwFU#ws)
The other parts in this video series are also worth viewing. The initial ones cover operation of FSInn, but there are also tutorials on entering a flight plan and dealing with SIDS and STARS. Again, worth viewing. There is a similar video out there specific to Squawbox that is also well done, but I cannot seem to find it.
All this will be a hoot I think. I'm having enough difficulty listening to and understanding domestic ATC but have gotten by (I have to say the ATC guys are usually very helpful and patient). Understanding the European guys (as illustrated in this video) is a whole other level of challenge, and only God knows what exists elsewhere in the world. I guess when all else fails regarding comprehension we can request vectoring or simply do a straight in approach following our flight plan......ATC will quickly straighten us out if something is screwed up! If our pilot licenses get revoked we can always revert to party mode!
Fred