Projector Choices for Home cockpit

[XOrionFE]

Thought I would put up this thread about projector choices so there is somewhere to look for recommendations.

Many know that I use the Mitsubishi EW230U-ST projectors for my 210 degree 3 projector wraparound visuals with a 12ft diameter 4 ft tall screen.   These projectors work perfect but are now discontinued.

I looked at Mitsubishi's newer replacement which is the EW331U-ST and it would produce almost the exact same size picture for a given distance as the older EW230U-ST so could definitely be used for our sims.    It is newer so has slightly more lumans (3000 versus the older's 2500).  It also has a slightly better contrast ratio (2700:1 versus older 2000:1).   Finally, supposedly it runs quieter.      So in short, the EW331U-ST looks like a nice option for us.   

On the note of service....
One of my three Mitsubishi's just started exhibiting loss of pixels.   It started as a couple and now there are hundreds.  The projector is 2.5 years old and less than 1000 hours.   But Mitsubishi has a 3 yr warranty standard.   I called them up and told them what was happening and they immediately over the phone issued a cross-ship of a new projector to replace it.   That is service!   

Anyway, if anyone has the 331 and can comment on it that would be nice.      Others, please post the models that are working for your setups.

Scott

[sagrada737]

Hi Scott,

Have you considered the ultra short throw Mitsubishi WD380U-EST ?  It offers similar specs as the 331-ST, but it has a shorter throw ratio.  Also, the price is only a couple hundred dollars more.   Here is a link to its specs:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-WD380U-EST.htm

Is it an advantage for a 12' diameter screen, where we want 220 degree coverage, that this model projector would allow the three projectors to be closer to the screen without compromising any image quality?

Mike

[sagrada737]

Questions: 

- Is there any "sync" issue/requirement related to having three projectors for a curved screen application?

- What is the maximum curved image (in degrees) that is realistic to expect to achieve with a TH2G setup.

- These projectors have HDMI inputs.  The digital TH2G I have is DVI output.  Is there any problem using a DVI to HDMI adapter for interface with these projectors?

Mike

[jskibo]

No issue dvi to hdmi

Just buy the cable with HDMI on one end and the DVI on the other.  Easier than messing with the adapter.

Monoprice.com is a great source and all lengths available cheap..

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231

[blueskydriver]

Well... I have the same EW230UST that Scott has and sad too say, I have exchanged all 3 for the same pixel loss problem. First, it was two projectors and later the third starting showing pixel loss in the hundreds. Yes, the service was awesome, but only after 1800 hours on the original bulbs, that is not a very long life span.

I can see why they're being discontinued, the chips in these projectors are not all that great or that is IMHO; especially, after speaking with the service techs at Mitsubishi, who related the failure rate of this model. So, I don't know if I'll go with a similar model from Mits or not later down the road...

I think what is needed is a thread on builders service history without being negative towards the company involved. Maybe, we could have folks list the model they have, any issues/failures or service, and how many hours on the bulbs they get/got.

Scott, you want to start something like this in a new thread?

John

Oh, I have seen 62-70 LCD screens for $900 @ Walmart, now at that price it makes one think about all of this...I love my projectors and surround screen, but LCD's do have an edge in clarity and brightness. Speaking of which, has anyone seen the "How they do it" episode where they put in huge screens at a horse race track in Japan (I think)? It's done in modules, so I wonder if those modules could be curved? See what flight simming does, makes everything you watch be a part of your decisions on your sim!

[jskibo]

I'm going with plasma's. I like the black levels better.

Panasonic EPP has the 60" for $764

[XOrionFE]

whoa

that is cheap John.   Hmmmm

Now after what BSD says I am really starting to worry.  I almost bought an extra Mitsubishi today just to have as a spare but I said to myself, do I really want to drop another $700 on this setup?   I think I will just use mine for the next 6 months under their warranty and when that runs out I will see what is available.  Maybe screens will be even better/cheaper but I am still thinking LCDs are in my future (or plasmas) but not Projection.

Scott

[blueskydriver]

Scott,

If you switch after 6 months, I might buy your Mits for spares if the price is good. If I wanted to switch to LCD screens, I'd have too wait for a long time because Karen is going to buy 3 46"-60" LCD's for her F16 first. Still, if I can pickup your mits, it'll save me some time before switching over...even if I do?

It's still a very big decision too make; I'd have to visit someone with that type of setup first before I'd go for it...seeing is believing they always say.

John

[jskibo]

John, when mine is up and running you're more than welcome to come over and have a look. 

Plan to start with three 60's since I can run that off the one PC.  May move to five at some point though.

Three is -165" horizontal viewing area so it won't fully wrap around, but.....

[FredK]

I am using three Mitsubishi WD500U-St short throws.  Over two years now without any problems.  I'm happy with the overall projection quality.

Fred

[Maurice]

I think what is needed is a thread on builders service history without being negative towards the company involved. Maybe, we could have folks list the model they have, any issues/failures or service, and how many hours on the bulbs they get/got.

As you may recall John, I too had a projector with bad pixels after about 1000 hours and that was a BenQ model now out of production, but they fixed mine free as well.

But if you ask me, projectors really suck on many, many levels. My view right now is that projectors should go the way of dinosaurs when it comes to flight sim. Even when they work well, the resolution leaves a lot to be desired and I always feel that I am losing my eyesight anytime I am on the ground since everything looks slightly blurry compared to a high resolution LCD screen.

I am not talking of course about mega bucks high resolution projectors although I'm sure they are just as prone to developing bad pixels and bad pixels on a projector really stand out compared to bad pixels on an LCD or plasma screen.

All & all, I don't think the full wraparound that you get with projectors is worth the lack of clarity and LCDs is definitely the way I would go if I were to start again.  But if my projectors die on me, that will be the final straw & the sim dies as well 

Maurice

[XOrionFE]

John, when mine is up and running you're more than welcome to come over and have a look. 

Plan to start with three 60's since I can run that off the one PC.  May move to five at some point though.

Three is -165" horizontal viewing area so it won't fully wrap around, but.....

I am making that drive again to see it when you are up and running John!!

Scott

[Joe Lavery]

Not wishing to hijack this thread, but is anyone out there using large scale LCDs at the moment. I'm using just three small monitors at present, until I can get more space for the pit. But I had the impression that projectors were the mutts nuts, now you've all made me think twice about my future plans... 

I believe that Samsung are due to release an LCD with no border (bezel) at all, I'm sure that would improve the immersion; although I think they're a bit pricey.

Joe.

[jskibo]

I use three 40's on my GA pit now.

[sluyt050]

As some of you may already know, I am presently building a flat screen projector setup, 210 deg. viewing angle. Projectors are the BenQ MW851UST (Native Resolution: 1280x800, Native Aspect Ratio: 1.6, Contrast Ratio: 13000:1). Since the projectors have a very low throw ratio of 0.36 and my room width is limited to 3.2m, I chose for three 86.5" homemade screens (1.864 x 1.165m) rather than a curved screen to avoid loss of (mainly vertical) resolution due to large warping corrections required. I am still using Fly Elise warping software, however, but only for fine tuning of the images (edge butting).

I will start a new thread once I have results.

[jskibo]

http://prosim737.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3775

Nice deal here.  Three brand new Mits 811's and a TH2GO for $2500 Aussie

[jskibo]

Ordered a Panasonic 60" plasma to test out the fit and look.  If all goes well I'll grab two more and post up some videos of how it looks.  Won't be 200 degree wrap around, but if I block the rear window on each side it should fill all the other views.

[Maurice]

Ordered a Panasonic 60" plasma to test out the fit and look.  If all goes well I'll grab two more and post up some videos of how it looks.  Won't be 200 degree wrap around, but if I block the rear window on each side it should fill all the other views.

My gut feeling is that you'll be very happy with it and if you ever have any doubts, just enjoy the sharp image where you can actually read taxiway signs before you are on top of them. I don't know how many times I have landed somewhere without seeing that another plane was on the runway until I 'merged' with it

Maurice

[Sam Llorca]

Or this...

http://www.gpegint.com/products/video_wall

[jskibo]

Ummm....moving to Plasma was for space reasons, that would just kill it again

[sagrada737]

I know this thread is concerning projector choices, but it also has prompted the viability of using TVs for the outside displays.  I think that Maurice's comments concerning the clarity of the project image is of valid concern.  Ground operations may be another reason to go for the greater clarity that LCD or LED TVs/monitors offer.

I sense that TV technology is about to go through revolutionary changes.  There is much talk about the new OLED technology which has not hit the market.  This technology is amazing with its 5mm thick display and amost zero bezel form factors.  OLED technology can even be curved.  Unfortunately, all this is new very expensive at this time.  But I think it will go the way of all technology and in a few years you will be seeing these type of displays at WalMart at low price points.

Check out this link showing a curved Samsung 55" OLED

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-ces-samsung-curved-oled-tv-20130108,0,7957369.story

Projectors may also have such a technology revolution, but I haven't seen any super high resolution offerings at attractive pricing.  There seems to be a price barrier with projector systems for super high resolution and clarity that has not been broken yet.  It seems that TVs are getting most of the technology attention and market push.  That is good news for we sim builders, as displays keep getting better all the time.

Mike

[HarryZ]

Certainly is taking tv screens in a whole new direction although the curve shown doesn't look to be enough to give good surround vision at this time.   It will be interesting to learn the cost when it's available.

As for projectors to give high resolution...saw a couple at the I/ITEC conference at Orlando FL in December that would blow your mind....and wallet at the same time!!!  CAE had one that was unbelievable...and for around $ 10,000 it should be!

Harry

[sagrada737]

You hit it on the head Harry!  Price/performance.  We certainly can obtain very high-end projector/screen performance, but the question remains...  How much are we willing to invest in our home cockpits for an outside display solution?

I'm not sure (in fact I am positive) if I want to invest in a display system that cost more than my entire Flight Deck.  It seems like we are back to that delicate balance of price/performance/quality/reliability for our display systems.

Mike

[jackpilot]

Still fairly subjective as my experience with Maurice' display is 100% OK as far as resolution is concerned. I would accept anytime the proj (relative) lower crispness Vs the TV bezels.
question
At the same Resolution is there a visual crispness difference if the image is flat or wraped.

Jack

[Maurice]

Still fairly subjective as my experience with Maurice' display is 100% OK as far as resolution is concerned. I would accept anytime the proj (relative) lower crispness Vs the TV bezels.
question
At the same Resolution is there a visual crispness difference if the image is flat or wraped.

Jack

You can't really judge the sharpness while you are wowed by the full wraparound experience on just a couple of visits. I too was blown away at the beginning and it was only after several days that the lack of clarity started to bother me.

As for the difference between warped or unwarped, for sure the umwarped image is a bit sharper even on a curved screen since warping does introduce a certain amount of distortion. It is not a huge difference since you are still dealing with a low resolution on a huge screen but anything that improves the picture quality would be better than nothing.

So I do think flat screens would be better all around but I have not seen one, so it's only an opinion since I do not know if the sense of immersion gets diminished with flat screens. I don't see why it would but who knows?

Maurice