motorized yokes from Revolution Sim

[cestlavie2010]

Hello All,

I received 2 motorized yokes from Revolution Sim 3 weeks ago. After some errors in wiring etc I am starting up things....because it is a new product is can have some errors in software / hardware and I am finding out some thing I like to share and ask. Because I have never real flown as a piloot i was wondering:

- when flying CMD mode on MCP and heading turning left or right: software correctly moves the yokes. First into correct angle then neurtral and when approaching correct setted heading again to the other side to finally become in neutral position again. I believe this is correct.
- but what about elevation ? RevSim says that elevation motors almost never work when in CMD mode ? Is this really true ? I hoped to see them moving when ascending / decending according to FMC. Anyone who knows ? RevSim says that in 99% of situation the airplane trims it self so no noticable elevation change on yokes....I dont know...anyone ?
- also I wonder why when I am on runway and full trottle my plane goes to the left always...(I think I also had that whith previous saitek yoke but was working on other problems so that I did not yet fix it...anyone any idea?
- how big movement of yoke is normal when making right turn of x degrees ? It only moves a bit...2/3cm  1-1.5 inch.  Is this dependable on speed / height ? how it reacts ?

Thanks for someone / real piloot who can share their information on these things...

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8068/6zoh.mp4

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/843/nd1j.mp4/

[Trevor Hale]

I Like your little video.  I do not know for sure, but I am also thinking that the MCP would climb and decend through the trim, rather then the yokes.  But Mike L Would be the best person to ask as he flys this bird all the time.

As for the yokes.....  DO they have any force feedback in them?  And when the mcp HDG mode is engaged, will it ruin the motors if you grab them?

Trev

[cestlavie2010]

Rudder problem solved....auto rudder was still on! 

For the rest not yet correctly working only crashing! If someone with real experience can describe THE supposed working of the yoke in real plane...please

[MLeavy737]

Hi all,
sorry i missed this one.. It sounds like Rev sim has it right honestly.. I flew yesterday and with this post in mind and paid more attention to how the yoke was moving. 

  As far as cruise is concerned the pitch either climbing or descending doesnt move all that much. Maybe an inch or so measured from the top of yoke. The airplane uses power and trim to initiate a climb/descent. Same with roll in cruise. Doesnt move all that much. The more you bank the yoke the more rapid the roll rate will be so if you want a nice smooth turn you just move it a few degrees.. maybe 5-10 or so..

The yoke moves a bit more when slower i guess in the landing phase. I know just from hand flying the airplane especially in gusty condition that at times ill come close to max bank deflection and a pretty big range in pitch.

  I could help you more if you had some video of them working while your flying in a few different conditions probably.  Either way it seems like there pretty accurate based on your description.

Mike L

[cestlavie2010]

Currently i am on holiday...3 days behoren..Finally Things seems to work....Will let know everyone after holiday..l

Remc

[sluyt050]

Currently i am on holiday...3 days behoren..Finally Things seems to work....Will let know everyone after holiday..l

Remc

Hey Remco,

I do not have a hardware cockpit (yet) but I ordered a Jetstream (Revolution Simproducts) platinum motorized TQ.

I consider to bye one Pitch & Roll & Elevator Trim motorized gold star yoke because I am looking for the most realistic one particularly  with respect to yoke force. Although, it has a price!. I am anxious to hear your experience sofar.

Another question: Would "motorized" automatically imply Force Feedback? and

Do you stil think it is worth the money or could I better go for a cheaper non-motorized one (e.g. Jetstream or ACE)?

[jackpilot]

I'm not a great fan of "lean back and look at the airplane fly itself"
I do not see the point, especially in a sim  ,

This being said the motorized yoke is just what it says, the force feedback is a matter of software.
Not sure the FS force feedback is realistic. Control loading would be more appropriate and I know that some members here have seriously explored the subject and might chime in.
(and correct me If wrong! )

[sluyt050]

I'm not a great fan of "lean back and look at the airplane fly itself"
I do not see the point, especially in a sim  ,

This being said the motorized yoke is just what it says, the force feedback is a matter of software.
Not sure the FS force feedback is realistic. Control loading would be more appropriate and I know that some members here have seriously explored the subject and might chime in.
(and correct me If wrong! )

Hey Jack,

I do not get your point completely. Even or better particularly when hand flying a motorized yoke + software is required IMO to establish force feedback or control loading. Am I right?

[N737AG]

If we are talking about a 737, this is what I can say about the real plane :

The force feel is achieved mechanically on the so called centering units. These consist basically of a cam and a follower, which is pressed against the cam by springs.

Let's take for example the elevator : from the columns you have pulley cables which connect it to the centering unit located in the tail of the plane. From the centering unit you have an arm connecting it to the power unit that moves the control surface. The force you have to make on the columns does not come from the pressure of the air against the control surface, but exclusively from the centering unit.

The force of the follower on the cam is further controlled buy an hydraulic actuator. If you look closely at the vertical fin of the 737, you will see it has a pitot tube. The air pressure on this pitot tube gives a signal to the feel computer, which in turn commands the hydraulic actuator to press the follower harder against the cam. On a sim you could achieve this by further tensioning the springs.

This is why at slow speeds the column is much easier to move as at high speeds. A couple of reasons for this are :
- at slow speeds you only have one hand available for the yoke ... the other one is controlling the thrust levers.
- at high speeds you should not be able to do large movements as you risk structurally damaging the airplane

This principle is the same for all three control axis's.

Additionally all trim commands as well as autopilot inputs are connected to the centering units mechanically, either through arms or pulley cables. That is why any of these commands will move your yoke, columns or pedals.


Axel

[sluyt050]

Thanks Axel for your clear explanation of the real thing.

Still leaves me with the question if a motorized yoke (Rev. Sim in this case) + the proper software is capable to simulate the control loading you explained. My feeling says it should be possible...

[MLeavy737]

I think i learned a few things there Axel.. Thanks, ill have to use some of that on my sim checkride in a few weeks

I honestly wouldnt want force feedback on the yokes. Brings back memories of those old force feedback days of the Microsoft joysticks lol.  Although the idea of feeling some control pressures on the yokes in turbulance or something seems cool its not really how its felt in the airplane.  I though those motiorized yokes had more to do with autopilot operations and actually having them move when the autopilot is engaged.. That would be pretty cool i think.. Especially during CAT IIIA autoland approaches where the trim trims up and the yoke pushes  forward.. Pretty cool..

Your better off having static control loading through springs/dampers or any other method to get a feel than having something fighting your movement?  Im sure there are alot more expensive ways to get the correct feel however for what 90% of us do here i think it works great.. Im using springs and a few VW steering dampers for my setup and i like it, got the feel very close to the real one.

Mike L

[sluyt050]

I think i learned a few things there Axel.. Thanks, ill have to use some of that on my sim checkride in a few weeks

I honestly wouldnt want force feedback on the yokes. Brings back memories of those old force feedback days of the Microsoft joysticks lol.  Although the idea of feeling some control pressures on the yokes in turbulance or something seems cool its not really how its felt in the airplane.  I though those motiorized yokes had more to do with autopilot operations and actually having them move when the autopilot is engaged.. That would be pretty cool i think.. Especially during CAT IIIA autoland approaches where the trim trims up and the yoke pushes  forward.. Pretty cool..

Your better off having static control loading through springs/dampers or any other method to get a feel than having something fighting your movement?  Im sure there are alot more expensive ways to get the correct feel however for what 90% of us do here i think it works great.. Im using springs and a few VW steering dampers for my setup and i like it, got the feel very close to the real one.

Mike L

Hey Mike, so you think a motorized yoke does not contribute to (a form of) control loading. If that is the case than I am not so interested anymore to buy one considering the price.

What brand of yokes do you have? Could you tell a bit more on the modifications you made?

[N737AG]

Mike : with pleasure. Let me know if I can help further

Edward : the controls are a very tricky thing. In my case I have invested over 2 years in research with the great help of a friend. As said, flight controls are very complex. In the sim you can go as complex as you want, but at a high cost of a lot of research and $$$ and, as in my case, 0 flight time.

My suggestion, as also suggested by Mike : make it as easy as possible, as long as you are comfortable and happy with it.

Axel