Three projectors setup - help please

[AndreWinterman]

Hi,

I´m new here and need a little help from you! I´ve read many discussions but still not sure if I´m going the right way?!

I´m in charge of building new MCC simulator at our university. My idea is to set up three projection screens and three short-throw projectors. The room is 4x6 meters. The size of the cockpit will be about 2x2 meters, nothing extraordinary, just a generic model FS, not a specific type.

My questions are:
1) What size of the projection screen will you recommend me? I thought about 100" with 4:3 aspect ration. Is 100" enough? Or do you thing 16:9 is better? I think it´s too wide for this size of room according to the angles of the screens?!

2) I pick this Benq short-throw projector, is it ok or would you recommend me better one?

http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-W710ST-Short-Theater-Projector/dp/B006ISZM2E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351977029&sr=8-1&keywords=benq+w710st

3) Is it big problem when the angle between the projection screens is greater than 45°?

I attached two drawings of this project, please feel free to comment.

I´m sorry for my english, I hope you understand the meaning:-)

I´ll be grateful for any recommendation or own experience! Thanks!

AndreW

[HarryZ]

Andre,

I guess the first question I have for you is whether you want your projection system to look "OK" or do you want it to be "dynamic".  And of course the budget you have can sometimes determine what you can purchase and work with.

The projectors you mentioned are decent but there are better ones, such as the BenQ MW814 ST.  The 814 has slightly more resolution (1280x800 native) and can handle the black colour better.  Of course, the 814 costs more...about $200-300 more each.

As for the screens, 3 flat ones will work but flat screens simply won't give you the realism feeling that a curved screen does.  But with curved screens, you need blending software to adapt the square projection on to a flat screen and that adds expense as well.  The Warpalizer software does an excellent job.

Current ST projectors will throw an approx 7.5 feet wide x 5 feet high visual from about 4.5 feet back from the screen.  if you use a curved screen, that will give you about 20% overlap which is need for proper edge blending.  Of course curved screens cost more unless you can get the proper material to build your own. I have a 20 foot x 5 foot screen made from FRP board (very flexible and light) and it cost me $ 170.00 to purchase.  Again, it depends on where you live and what material you have to build the screen.

As for angles, FS X shows 45 degree views and using a TripleHead2Go unit, that works out well. I would try and keep those angles for optimum viewing. Again, a TH2G adds to the cost of the system.

For projectors, I would deal with a local company who specializes in them. The last thing you need is to purchase projectors from some other source and then not have the ability to get them serviced if needed. In my case, I was able to try a unit from a specialty store and discovered it wouldn't work properly for my situation.  They took it back (arranged in advance if required) and I got the units I needed.

I noticed in your drawings that you had the left projector throwing to the right screen and vice versa for the right one.  Not a good idea with ST projectors.  The left should throw left and same for the right.

I hope these suggestions help. If you have more questions, please ask.

Harry



AndreW
[/quote]

[sluyt050]

I plan to make a setup using 90 inch flat screens and BENQ MW851UST projectors (http://www.benq.us/product/projector/mw851ust/).

More info at http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=2899.0

[HarryZ]

I plan to make a setup using 90 inch flat screens and BENQ MW851UST projectors (http://www.benq.us/product/projector/mw851ust/).

VERY nice projector...but pricey.   Please let us know the results and quality of image you get when you get it all set up.  Thanks.

Harry

[sluyt050]

I will keep you (and Scott of course) informed on my progress. Nice to know your positive feelings on my projector choice.

BTW, the present Dutch lowest prices are:
MW851UST: EUR 1057 (ref. http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/288756/benq-mw851ust.html#tab:prices)
MW814ST: same price!!!

So the decision is easy.

[tennyson]

I've looked and can't see that model here in Australia. We do have the 860, which looks the same, very similar spec and is about the same price.

It looks to be the top of the range Benq, would that be right?

I'd be interested to see your progress with this one and what others thought on this projector, too?

Frank Cooper

[HarryZ]

BTW, the present Dutch lowest prices are:
MW851UST: EUR 1057 (ref. http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/288756/benq-mw851ust.html#tab:prices)
MW814ST: same price!!!

So the decision is easy.

I paid CAD $ 965 for the 814 and that was at a bit of a discount since I purchased 3 of them.  I believe the 851 is about $ 300 more per unit.  Interesting how the prices vary depending on where you live.

The company I bought it from allowed me to test a standard lens unit and I discovered it had to be too far back from the screen so they let me send it back for a full credit.  Sure saved a lot of hassle.

Harry

[HarryZ]

Not sure of this pic is going to upload properly or not but here is a shot of my curved screen using the Warpalizer software.

Harry

[sluyt050]

Not sure of this pic is going to upload properly or not but here is a shot of my curved screen using the Warpalizer software.

Harry

Looks quite good besides the blending area is still visible. I can imagine that edge butting is preferred over blending. Difficult to guess, however, from this picture, if my flat screen approach would do better (or worse). I just have to find out. Thanks anyway.

[HarryZ]

Looks quite good besides the blending area is still visible. I can imagine that edge butting is preferred over blending. Difficult to guess, however, from this picture, if my flat screen approach would do better (or worse). I just have to find out. Thanks anyway.

Actually, with the Warpalizer software, you do both butting and blending.  This picture was taken before I did some further tweaking and the blending is even better now.  The one thing I learned is that today's digital cameras make the the blended area look a bit worse than it really is.

There is another problem with blending as well.  You can use the gamma correction function to get the area in front of a terminal building to look great.  But when you take off and get into white clouds and blue sky, it won't look as good.  Now I understand that there is a professional version of Warpalizer that addresses this but it is quite a bit more expensive.

I'll take some more pics of the screen and post them shortly.

Harry

[AndreWinterman]

Thank you Harry and Edward very much for your comments and suggestions! I appreciate it very much!

I have just few more questions if you won´t mind...

a) Why do you think the MW814 ST is better than W710ST? I know it´s more expensive so it should be better. But if you compare the specification the W710ST has better dynamic contrast (10 000:1) than MW814ST (4000:1), or am I missing something? Is it all just about the better native resolution? But there is just 80 pixels more, does it make the difference? Do you think the ultra short throw projector MW851UST has any other advantage than short distance, as Edward mentioned?

b) I know that the curved screen would be definitely better but the simulator is supposed to be primarily MCC simulator for training procedures, cooperation and IFR flying so the outside view is, unfortunately, on the second place. But my question is, do you think it is necessary to have the wide 16:9 screens? It seems to me that you have 180° side view, but what about the height of these screens? If I compare 4:3 a and the wide screen there is more than 30cm difference in height and I am afraid that I will see the top and bottom edge if I´ll pick the 16:9 format? Or do you think 125cm height is enough for this type of projection?

c) Can you recommend me any similar projector to the MW814ST? Because there isn´t any in stock right now and I have to buy it next week... Or do you think that the W710ST is sufficient for my purpose?

Thanks for your help and hope you´re doing well with your sims!

Andrew (Czech Republic, EU)

[HarryZ]

Andrew,

Higher native resolution is always better and in theory, gives a better image.  I was once told not to pay too much attention to dynamic contrast...it's more of a marketing/sales spec. Perhaps someone else can comment on that aspect.

I'm thinking that ultra short throw projectors are more beneficial in areas where you don't have the space for a normal short throw unit.  The shorter the throw, the more sensitive the reaction when you move those units.

Your comment on the curved screen is very true.....if your primary goal is training, then the outside view isn't as important. If it's for enjoyment, then the outside view becomes more of a priority.

I use 1 16:10 viewing area and that seems to work better than a 4:3 for me.  My screen is 5 feet high and runs 20 feet with a 135 degree viewing area.  The 4:3 option made the image too high.

Buying projectors can be a challenge because often the one you want isn't available.  I would ensure you got a xvga unit which is 1280 x 800 (720) resolution.   And compare the cost to what features you are getting from each unit.  Projector prices can be all over the map and sometimes difficult to figure out which is the best bang for what  you are spending.

Harry