B737 Startswitches

[sluyt050]

Asked you a question last Friday Scott on why needing those starting switches in an FDS panel. I simply was not aware that FDS does not have them in their OH. Anders explained and convinced me still to go for FDS because of their IBL and high service level. Learning every day  .

Just forget about my off-topic question.

[XOrionFE]

As much work I did on my servo setup....I think I am going to have to bite the bullet and get a set of your switches Anders....

I have watched your video over and over and think they are just fantastic and a must have.   I will reach out to you in a couple weeks once I am done with vacation.  I have to have that snap and that sound!

Scott

I understand that you have a FDS forward overhead panel. I did not contact Peter Cos yet, but referring to their B737NG PRO-M Series, what is your opinion on the engine start switches made by Anders and the present FDS implementation?

This is actually off-topic, but I am considering to bye pre-wired sections from FDS and like to use them with ProSim 737. Do you think this will be feasible or asking for problems?

Thanks, Edward

FDS doesn't include start switches at this time that include a holding coil or anything to my knowledge.   I believe that they just use a standard rotary switch and if you buy the kit for the overhead to wire yourself that is what would come in their kit.   I believe they use real Cole switches on their Pro setups but Steve or Pete would have to confirm that.   At the time I made my servo operated setup I asked if they were ever going to offer a setup like Anders made and the answer at the time was perhaps but obviously that would likely be an extra option if they did it (again, better to ask FDS directly).    I think what Anders made looks great though I am somewhat concerned about the threading not being aluminum or steel.     I will likely still buy a set though.

As for wiring of FDS overhead and Prosim 737 I can tell you from experience that the FDS SYS cards and the Elec-Cab units work perfectly with Prosim but you would have to configure them yourself as when they prewire everything it would likely be to use with Interfacit .xmls.     I wired my own FDS overhead panels and connected all to a SYS1X card and setup on Sim-Avionics.    Later when experimenting with Prosim I just left Interfacit out of the equation and directly setup all the inputs and outputs in Prosim through direct access to the SYS Card.   Piece of cake.   That said, today I run Sim-Avionics since I am running X-Plane and it works so well.   Sim-A has also come a long way in the last year and is really pretty awesome now.   So long story short....it doesnt matter whether you choose Sim-A or Prosim when considering whether to buy FDS overhead panels.   If you use their panels and have them prewire with a SYS Card you can still interface easily to either avionics package.     Their IBLs are awesome and so are the SYS cards.

Hope this helps...
Scott

[sluyt050]

Yes, that helped!  . As I said: "learning every day".

Thanks Scott.

[archen]

Hi,
The lenght between the backplate and the end of the switch (rotary included) is 94mm (~3,7in).

I would like to thank Frank for his review the threading he assumed could be a problem has been tested by me several times in my FDS ovhd by mounting and unmounting the switch many times without problem. I'm not saying it's not a problem but don't underestimate POM plastics.
I'll of course have a look at it if it becomes a problem. If anyone have a problem with it I'm happy to send you a new replacement free of charge.

Because of limited space and machines I cannot make that part in steel or aluminium. If I could I would have because plastic is more than double the price of aluminum. I'm a private person with no company or workshop so having a huge CNC-mill is not an option for me, I actually have my CNC in my kitchen  (yes I don't have a girlfriend)

And Frank you overall review makes me very happy and proud to hear. Thank you very much for that!

Best regards,
Anders

[Sean]

Hey Frank, great little review. Be sure to post another when you've got them working. I just measured the void between my Engravity overhead and FDS shell. Like Scott, I have 150mm easy. I have elected not to mount the overhead in the Engravity enclosure, as I found that too deep!

Do you think there'll be any clashes with neighbouring hardware behind the panel? I'm think specifically of the Cabin Climb gauge.

Sean

[archen]

Hi Sean,
Sorry to interupt your discussion with Frank. I will just give my thoughts of your questition.

You are correct that the cabinclimb will be in the same area as the solenoid but there is solutions to this.

1. The distance between backplate and the solenoid is 42mm so any gauge that is lower than 42mm will fit right in. (I.E flight illusions gauges fit perfect).
2. If you have a higher gauge you can mount the solenoid in the other direction if its possible. If not you can turn the switch 90 degrees so the solenoid goes above the taxilight switch etc. You can also turn it 90 degrees in the other direction so the solenoid goes above the igniters selector switch.


To rotate the switch you move the locking pin with a plier to the desired hole in the mountingplate.
Available setup's is:
30° left up
Straight up
30° left down
Straight down
90° Right (Only O-shaped shaft)
90° Left (Only O-shaped shaft)

Regards,
Anders

[archen]

I took some picture to better explain what I mean but rotating the switch. I would say normally it fits OK but if you have a real cabin climb gauge or one that is higher than 42mm in the middle you have the options to rotate it like the pictures.

As you can see the is some options and you can also see that the switch clears the IBL connector on the FDS ovhd either way you mount the switch. Well pictures say more than words so here you can see the possible ways of installation:

[Sean]

Excellent. Just what I wanted to hear. Thanks Anders.

[tennyson]

Hi Guys.
Thanx Scott and Sean, for the measurements. My shell is in pieces at the moment and I can't tell.

Now that I know that, I am happy. And as Anders said, you can move the pins to change the aspect of the switches, which is a brilliant piece of advance engineering.

Sorry about the comments concerning the plastic, but I was pointing out possible problems, not existing ones. Anders has obviously factored that in, anyway.

I am really looking forward to try them out, but might have to wait a little while.

Now, I'm heading out to my shed to take a few more pics of the finished install.




Frank Cooper

[tennyson]

Just wanted to add a few final pics here.

I uninstalled the switches, re-installed my backing plate to the overhead and re-installed the switches.

It all went as per advertised. I did some measurements when they were mounted and, by the way, they fitted beautifully and had no impact on anything around them, including the pressurisation gauges.

The switches are 94mm (I said 95 in the picture) from the front to the back of the switch, so according to the guys measurements here of 150mm to play with, they will fit easily in the roof cavity of the FDS shell without any problems.

And to answer you, Peter, Anders swiches are 94mm long (in the body), whereas the cole switches are a little longer at 100mm (I believe).

Finally, here are a few pics of the job finished and awaiting installation to the shell.












Frank Cooper

[XOrionFE]

Ordered a set from Anders today for my sim.   When in I will post some pictures also as they will be fitted into my real overhead panel frame and with FDS shell.  Note, my cabin climb guage is Flight Illusion so as posted earlier I should have not issue clearing that.   Anyway, I am looking forward to these and will be removing my servo operated mechanism.   These are much much more realistic and as I said earlier....I have to have that SNAP!!     I guess my next step is to work out some SIOC code for handling my OC relays card connections to these.   If anyone has the logic worked out already it would be nice if you could post here.

Thanks,
Scott

[fordgt40]

Scott

here you are below. I coded this a while back, so memory is poor and you will need to work out the SA FSUIPC_IO.ini offsets.
Gives you a good start

Regards

David

//**************************   Engine Start   ************************************


Var 4324, name SA_IGN_SRCE, Link FSUIPC_OUT, Offset $5309, Length 1     // Ignition Source switch
Var 4290, name SW_IGN_L, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 128, Type I     // Ignition Switch L
{
IF &SW_IGN_L = 1
  {
    &SA_IGN_SRCE = 1
  }
ELSE
  {
    &SA_IGN_SRCE = 0
    }
}
Var 5291, name SW_IGN_R, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 130, Type I     // Ignition Switch R
{
IF &SW_IGN_R = 1
  {
    &SA_IGN_SRCE = 2
  }
ELSE
  {
    &SA_IGN_SRCE = 0
    }
}
Var 3266, name SW_ENG_GRD_L, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 143, Type I     // eng start GRD L
{
  IF &SW_ENG_GRD_L = 1
  {
    &SA_MULTIUSE = 831
  }
}

Var 3269, name SW_ENG_CONT_L, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 139, Type I     // eng start CONT L
{
  IF &SW_ENG_CONT_L = 1
  {
    &SA_MULTIUSE = 832
  }
}

Var 3267, name SW_ENG_OFF_L, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 135, Type I     // eng start OFF L
{
  IF &SW_ENG_OFF_L = 1
  {
    &SA_MULTIUSE = 830
  }
}


Var 4266, name SW_ENG_GRD_R, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 136, Type I     // eng start GRD R
{
  IF &SW_ENG_GRD_R = 1
  {
    &SA_MULTIUSE = 834
  }
}

Var 4267, name SW_ENG_CONT_R, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 141, Type I     // eng start CONT R
{
  IF &SW_ENG_CONT_R = 1
  {
    &SA_MULTIUSE = 835
  }
}

Var 4269, name ENG_OFF_R, Link IOCARD_SW, Input 142, Type I     // eng start OFF R
{
  IF &ENG_OFF_R = 1
  {
    &SA_MULTIUSE = 833
  }
}



Var 4500, Name FS_F_CUTOFF_L, Link IOCARD_SW Input 122 // FS Fuel cutoff valve no 1
{
IF &FS_F_CUTOFF_L = 1
      {
      &SA_F_CUT_L = 1
      }
      ELSE
      {
       &SA_F_CUT_L = 0
       }
  }

Var 4501, Name SA_F_CUT_L, Link FSUIPC_OUT, Offset $5311, Length 1  // SA  Fuel cutoff valve no 1

Var 4550, Name FS_F_CUTOFF_R, Link IOCARD_SW Input 119 // FS Fuel cutoff valve no 2
{
IF &FS_F_CUTOFF_R = 1
      {
      &SA_F_CUT_R = 1
      }
      ELSE
      {
       &SA_F_CUT_R = 0
       }
  }

Var 4551, Name SA_F_CUT_R, Link FSUIPC_OUT, Offset $5312, Length 1  // SA  Fuel cutoff valve no 2



Var 5675, Name ENG_L_SOL, Link IOCARD_OUT, Output 60 Device 2 // Left engine solenoid switch
Var 5678, Name ENG_IGN_L, Link FSUIPC_IN, Offset $5330, Length 1 // Engine Ignition state L
{
IF &ENG_IGN_L = 1
    {
    &ENG_L_SOL = DELAY 1 400
    &ENG_L_SOL = DELAY 0 500
     }
  }


Var 9675, Name ENG_R_SOL, Link IOCARD_OUT, Output 59 Device 2 // Left engine solenoid switch
Var 9678, Name ENG_IGN_R, Link FSUIPC_IN, Offset $5331, Length 1 // Engine Ignition state L
{
IF &ENG_IGN_R = 1
    {
    &ENG_R_SOL = DELAY 1 400
    &ENG_R_SOL = DELAY 0 500
     }
  }

[XOrionFE]

Awesome.  Thank you David.  You are the sioc guru!

Scott

[jackpilot]

SIOC...  xx@!*X*#>;²

Well, I met David, he looked normal though.

[fordgt40]

SIOC...  xx@!*X*#>;²

Well, I met David, he looked normal though.

But that was before Midnight

[tennyson]

Wow, I hadn't thought of CP Flight controller card. I thought I could hook them up to my FDS Sys1 card?

So, I take it that I can use the CPFlight controller card to run the switches? I'd be very interested to see how you hook it up, Warren.

Some pics or a vid would be nice, please?

And kudo's to you, too david for your coding, mate. That's gold!

Thanx in advance,


Frank Cooper

[Sean]

Frank, the rotary switch will be connected to your SYS1 card, but you need a 12v supply to operate the solenoid. You won't get that from the FDS card. Not sure the CPFlight card will do. Do you mean the MCPEX1?

Sean

[Jetcos]

FDS Relay card would work to control the Start switches.

Has 8 relays.

1) Eng 1
2) Eng 2
3) Stick Shaker
4) Yaw Damper Switch

These are the most common solenoid/motor devices you can control via offsets.

[saabpilot]

FDS is an excellent choice 

However, if you use the ProSim737 suite, Phidgets 0/0/4 relay card has native (direct) support in ProSim.
This might be true for FDS relay card too - check.

http://clcsystems.nordicshops.com is a great supplier of Phidgets in Europe.

Best,
Bjorn

[N737AG]

I have the FDS Relay card and Sim-A. The start switches, stick shakers and yaw damper work perfectly with this configuration.

Axel

[XOrionFE]

I have the FDS Relay card and Sim-A. The start switches, stick shakers and yaw damper work perfectly with this configuration.

Axel

How are the relays controlled Axel?  Through Interfacit?

Scott

[tennyson]

Have you got your switches yet, Scott?



Frank Cooper

[XOrionFE]

Anders just shipped today Frank.  I am looking forward to them.    He is fast!

Scott

[N737AG]

Scott, yes they are

Axel

[sluyt050]

Just received my start switches. They'r looking solid (and they work!). Unfortunately no (FDS) overhead panel yet...