Warpalizer 3 upgrade for full motion sim at Lelystad !

[sagrada737]

Harry - Thanks for the comments.  When I begin to work on the FSX computer, I will take the FSX.cfg into consideration for the balance you described.

Olav - Thanks for the comments.  It must be tough duty having to spend time in Florida this time of year - have fun at the sim show.    As you might guess, I am still trying to sort out which display solution I will start out with for my 737NG project - either multiple monitors, or a 3 projector system.  I will need to fly in both of these systems in order to make this decision.  Hopefully I will get a chance to demo both of these display strategies soon. 

I wonder if the I/ITSEC conference would be a good place for me to visit for a day.  I think I still could get down there if it is open to the public.  Any thoughts on this?

The software utility might be helpful for establishing projector sync capabilities.  Perhaps I can get back with you concerning this once you return to Norway. 

I think it was Scott or Maurice that pointed out that the type of projector was critical for a good display outcome.  In the sim location I have in mind at my home, I can place the projectors as high as 12 feet (3.65 meters).  I have room for a 14 foot diameter (4.26 meter) screen for 220 degree wrap, with plenty of room for a "roll in" sim setup platform.  Considering a typical 737NG shell     profile, what throw ratio might be a good choice, and what type/model projector might you suggest?

Feedback on this appreciated.
Mike

[Maurice]

  In the sim location I have in mind at my home, I can place the projectors as high as 12 feet (3.65 meters). 
Mike

I may be wrong about this but placing the projectors that high is not a good thing. Ideally, you want the projectors as horizontal as possible. At that height, the horizon line would be much too high which means you would need to point the projectors down which means you would need to use keystone correction which is not a good thing at all.

Ideally you would want to place the projectors at a height where the horizon is where it should be when looking from inside the cockpit and that is with the projectors perfectly horizontal. My projectors are located a bit over 7' high and that works well with my shell where the platform is about 11" above ground.

There is no easy way to do this so experimentation is required to get the best height for the projectors. Having said that, maybe I'm totally wrong about this although I don't think so 

Maurice

[Flying_Fox]

I think it was Scott or Maurice that pointed out that the type of projector was critical for a good display outcome.  In the sim location I have in mind at my home, I can place the projectors as high as 12 feet (3.65 meters).  I have room for a 14 foot diameter (4.26 meter) screen for 220 degree wrap, with plenty of room for a "roll in" sim setup platform.  Considering a typical 737NG shell     profile, what throw ratio might be a good choice, and what type/model projector might you suggest?

Mike, your 12 feet ceiling actually present another problem.  Too high, and your projector mount has to be very sturdy to prevent extra play and vibration. Ideal ceiling height is no more than 8 feet. I have 235 cm ceiling and thus have to use keystone correction and there probably will be just several millimeters gap between projectors and shell.

14 feet diameter is perfect.

Throw ratio has to be in 0.5 range. 0.7 is too much - you will have the problem with projectors positions arrangement, because with 0.7 ratio  no matter what screen diameter you choose, the projection geometry calculation will force you to place all three projectors in the same spot. That was the problem that I had to resolve with two-level projector placement and screen of changing radius to compensate image distortions.

I did not use them, but looks like many people here have good results with Mitsubishi projectors.

Nick

[sagrada737]

Maurice, Nick,

Thanks for the comments.  Although the ceiling for my sim project is 12 feet, if I go with a 3-projector setup, I think I will have no problem making a structure that will allow proper placement of the projectors at the correct location above the cockpit shell.   This might be a simple truss beam that ties into the wall.   I plan to have my cockpit platform mobile as the room will allow for it to be pulled away - making it easier to perform maintenance, etc.

The comments on the short throw ratio are interesting, along with the height of the projector complex.  I'll keep this in mind.  I'm guessing there are several possibilities for projectors that will do the job nicely, and I will check out the Mitsubishi.  But as you commented, if I go this route, there is going to be some experimentation involved.

Regarding the room environment:  The room that I have is inside our home, and has a ceiling fan and a mini-split heating/cooling system that is very efficient and economical for keeping the room at 68F - perhaps a nice temperature for the setup - even if I use a projector system for the display.

Mike

[sluyt050]

Mike,

For your information, I just received 3 BenQ 851UST projectors. I'am going to use them in a 210 degr. setup with 3 87" flat screens. Inner angle between center screen and side screens is 110 deg. I'am going to use warping software only for alignment correction of the projectors.

[Storola]

Mike, your 12 feet ceiling actually present another problem.  Too high, and your projector mount has to be very sturdy to prevent extra play and vibration. Ideal ceiling height is no more than 8 feet. I have 235 cm ceiling and thus have to use keystone correction and there probably will be just several millimeters gap between projectors and shell.

Hi,

Maurice is very correct about the keystone correction built into the projector, it should not be used by any interactive projection sustem. There are a couple of reasons, one, you loose pixels and more importantly, the keystone correction adds one frame latency. Pending on how clever you have configured your software this one frame extra latency could cause you to be sick to your stomac when flying. If the latency goes significantly beyond 82,5 milliseconds you are doomed to be "seasick". 

If you use a software product, like Warpalizer, you can do the correction by warping instead of keystoning which will just add 0.1 millisecond extra latency. However, the loss of pixels issue is still present.

By far the best is to buy a projector with lens shift, but I guess that adds too much cost.  The problems you guys have to solve have to find a solution in terms of a compromise of the following factors:
1. cost
2. ease of support from the supplyer
3. resolution
4. light output
5. contrast
6. frame sync
7. size
8. weight
9. make sure the hot air exhaust does not blow into the air intake of the next prokector.
10. lens parameters inclusive focus depth
11. ease of installation

And then, to find an installation spot where you will not get shadows from the cockpit and where possible hot-spot effects are avoided.

These are considerations we very often have to help the pro guys to sort out. Being enthusiasts like yourself I would think you actually enjoy these challenges.

Regards

Olav

[Flying_Fox]

Maurice is very correct about the keystone correction built into the projector, it should not be used by any interactive projection sustem. There are a couple of reasons, one, you loose pixels and more importantly, the keystone correction adds one frame latency. Pending on how clever you have configured your software this one frame extra latency could cause you to be sick to your stomac when flying. If the latency goes significantly beyond 82,5 milliseconds you are doomed to be "seasick". 

Olav, thank you for your insights!

I have to use keystone correction just because of the ceiling height issue. I might try the warping correction way. So far I am not experiencing any seasickness effects that you mention, however I would be interested to try that software program for checking  the frame sync capabilities for the projector.

Thanks,
Nick