Is this even possible with Nthusim or Warpalizer?

[Maurice]

I've not been to the website, but I read this as either an Nvidia card with 3 outputs OR an ATI card with 3 outputs OR a TH2G. Remember, the TH2G only needs a card with 1 output.

You are 100% right. I somehow missed that part. Still leaves the hefty price though.

Thanks,
Maurice

[blueskydriver]

Hi Maurice,

It's a TH2GO or a dual or triplehead card like Sean says. I looked at the manual for the software and works with all the choices. However, this is just an example to follow what you described. I also looked at some Warpalizer videos and it seems they're doing multi head cards in the manner describe, but not 100% sure. If you get to Nthusim site and send an email Andy, you will geta solid answer faster from him.

Additionally, is this possible with FlyElise? Anyone using it currently that could check? I have it, but not configured at the moment. In any case, be nice if we could get these software guys to update the programs (Warpalizer, Nthusim and FlyElise) to work with the newer multihead cards in this manner, if they don't already.

John

[blueskydriver]

I just watched a Warpalizer setup video and setting that program up on the edge blending alignment seems extremely easy; I should've purchased that program! Anyway, over on Ivar Hestnes site it links to Warpalizer, and there it states dual or triple head video cards.

We need Ivar in on this and too help answer if it can do what you're asking. If it can, then by your method, there should be gains in this for sure; especially, with the new video cards that are out.

John

[XOrionFE]

Maurice,

I think you could accomplish what your trying to do using FlyElise Immersive Desktop Lite.   That is what I am using now.   It allows you to have multiple displays and in addition allows you to define how many projectors per display.   You can download the software. And test it in demo mode.  Demo mode works fine but puts a watermark across the screen.   it is also the least expensive package out there and IMHO has all the features of NThusim and then some.   I own NThusim also but switched to Fly Elise exclusively now.  I cannot speak to warpilizers features as I never tried it.

Scott

[Maurice]

Maurice,

I think you could accomplish what your trying to do using FlyElise Immersive Desktop Lite.   That is what I am using now.   

Scott

This has been in my plans for a while now but I put if off while I was dealing with my hardware problems. So now would be a good time to experiment with FlyElise.

Thanks for the reminder

Maurice

[Nat Crea]

Hate double forum posting but....exception since you started 

I stopped off at NThusims office yesterday and Alex CONFIRMED
the GTX680 and NThusim WILL do you what your are proposing.
The cropped border fearture in NThusm will help you also.
As for performance and wether its better then the TH2Go is up to you
to trial

Nat

[Maurice]

Hate double forum posting but....exception since you started 

I stopped off at NThusims office yesterday and Alex CONFIRMED
the GTX680 and NThusim WILL do you what your are proposing.


Nat

I hate double forum posting as well but the only reason I did it was because I was trying to find just one person who might have tried what I wanted to do. But it seems that nobody in these 2 forums has done it but unexpectedly of course, many people have been trying to help anyway. It really is like a big family without the family squabbles 

Anyway, as I responded in the FDS forum, I will now try with the 2 video outputs in my current video card. I did not want to mess with them until I had some hope it would work but now it seems that both Nthusim & FlyElise will do the trick so all engines forward 

Mucho thanks,

Maurice

[Maurice]

Well, I bravely tried to go where no simmer has gone before (to my knowledge at least) and here are the initial results of my little experiment. I was not able to test using a video card with 3 outputs but my current card has 2 outputs and I was able to test the proof of concept. So here are my results (your experimentation may vary of course)

1.   My original thought that there would be a slight increase in fps was correct. The average increase was 2-3 fps

2.   Instead of trying with 2 monitors like I did, all I really had to do was run my normal setup and just change the FSX resolution to 1280x800 instead of 3840x800. This results of course in one image 1/3 the size of the screen as expected, but the results are the same than what I found by removing the THG and testing with 2 monitors (with 3 views)

3.   I was not able to warp the side view with Nthusim no matter what I tried. There may be a way but I don't know how, but I do believe that this would be feasible with FlyElise based on what I read in their manual (just speculation at this point).

4.   The biggest known problem I had and for which I believe there is a solution is that I was not able to save the window positions after saving the situation. I'm sure I read somewhere how to do it but I can't recall where at this time.

5.   Finally, I think I'm a total lunatic for messing with my current system just to gain an additional 2-3 fps. But although 2 or 3 fps may not sound like much, when taxiing at busy airports, it can make a big difference in the overall smoothness, especially when you are taxiing & turning. If you start with 15 and go to 17 or 18, it does make a big difference. In smaller airports though, 2-3 fps would make no difference at all since my frame rates are normally 22-25 at smaller airports.

So, the conclusion is very inconclusive for me so far. Do I spend big dollars for a video card with 3 outputs or do I call it a day and stop messing with my sim. Jack is probably right and I should stop this madness but mad men make mad decisions unfortunately. 

A suivre (maybe)

Maurice

[Sean]

Maurice, I don't think you're going to be happy until you are running 3 of those machines NASA used to put that thing on Mars last week, in Wideview.

Hold on... did I just say Maurice happy? Now I need a straight jacket! 

[saabpilot]

Just chiming in with some info 

We have 2 simulators here in Stockholm that uses Warpalizer and Nvidia 590/690 video cards with projectors.
No need for TH2G anymore and frame rate gain is +10 with FS9/FSX.
Picture looks slightly better too - or we imagine so 

Bjorn

[Nat Crea]

We have 2 simulators here in Stockholm that uses Warpalizer and Nvidia 590/690 video cards with projectors

Oh Boy...here we go...

Bjorn...you just adopted Maurice 


Nat

[blueskydriver]

I agree with Nat! Bjorn, can you post some pics and maybe a video of this, or even a link for info? If you can get 10fps more I would do it!

John

[saabpilot]

As they are not mine I have difficulties to do that, but will check more thoroughly a.s.a.p. with the two owners and see what more infos I can provide.  The TH2G apparently steals  a lot of valuable frames which are needed in a three projector setup, especially so with FSX.
Saving of the screen positions is solved too. How I am not sure of as I do not use Warpalizer (only one front screen in my own setup)

Warpalizer is "Made in Sweden", so we have close contacts with them, and they have helped hands-on with those two setups.

Mau can keep his name even as adopted     

Bjorn,
www.boeing737sim.se

[Maurice]

Ayyayay!!!  How can I ever be happy Sean? Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. I now know how Al Pacino must have felt in the Godfather movie

Bjorn,  what are you doing to me? You can't just dangle an ice cream cone in front of kid and then take it away. I'm hoping your conscience will not let you rest until you provide more information about this.

Are you sure the simulators you are talking about are not just using separate FSX  PCs with WideView? It seems to me that would be the only way to get 10+ frame rate increase. But boy, would I ever like to be wrong this time?

And Sean, you too will fall victim to chronic unhappiness with you sim some day. That is a terminal affliction unless you remove the offending member from your life, i.e. the flight deck. Trust me...that will happen to you too

Maurice

[Sean]

And Sean, you too will fall victim to chronic unhappiness with you sim some day. That is a terminal affliction unless you remove the offending member from your life, i.e. the flight deck. Trust me...that will happen to you too

Maurice

And I'm just getting to the exciting part...!

As you may know from my recent posts, I just got my screen material from the US and have built a curved screen 

Other things I have acquired over the years are a TH2G and Sol7 (which entitles me to Nthusim, although I've not tried that yet). My original short throw projectors have been sold and are soon to be replaced with 3 x Mitsubishi's, same model as Scott and John are using.

At the moment I have an i7-2600k coupled with a lowly HD6850 card running FSX.

I'll be creating my visuals using the above kit, pretty much the same way as you have now, but I fully expect to have to upgrade (read: spend more), to get good results. Which way I go will likely be influenced by your progress, so I'm watching carefully.

What's the latest news with Wideview? Apart from the expense issue, are there any other drawbacks, or have they largely been addressed?

Sean

[blueskydriver]

Hey Sean,

Will you post a seperate thread about your screen material and post some pics?

I am very happy you got yours now and I hope others will go this route like you and I have. I believe building a full size curved or flat screen from wood or other hard materials is no longer necessary. Before, the prices for the screens we have were way too high, but those prices have come down, so anyone who is just now building theirs will have a simple and cheap method to do so. You might think wood or other hard materials are cheaper, but in the long run there is the building time itself, as well as the typical problems with the associated with those materials, like the seams for example.

Who was it that just posted about the earthquake in Australia where their screen or it's seams got cracked? Yes, that is a remote incident, but what about other related issues? Anyway, the point is these screens that Sean and I have are amazing; thus, the idea behind sharing these thoughts with others...

John

[Sean]

Hey Sean,

Will you post a seperate thread about your screen material and post some pics?

I will indeed. I did add a quick note to the end of the existing thread, you may not have seen it...

Well, I recieved my screen from Carl yesterday and I hung it today.

One of the best things I've bought for the sim. It looks awesome just hanging there! I can't wait to get an image onto it (note to self: Get projectors ordered).

Thanks to John (BSD) for recommending Carl's Place http://www.carlofet.com/

For those who want a curved screen, this is definately the way to go. No messing around with oversized sheet materials, and no joins whatsoever. That it's made with actual projector screen material is the icing on the cake!

All I need to do is mount the vertical end supports, but I've ran out of pipe saddles. I'll post a pic when it's finished.

Sean

I'm still waiting to finish it, but it looks great as it is.

Watch this space!

Sean

[blueskydriver]

Sean,

Thanks for pointing out that last post in the other thread... We can start a thread called "Simple Projection Screen Fabric Material for Curved and Flat Screens" that way this thread that we're are in can continue on with it's listed topic. I will start the new thread now.

John

[saabpilot]

Hi fellows,

I will try to pass on our experiences her with Nvidia 590/690 cards.
I myself does not use them as my simroom is too small to permit a three projector setup.
I hope the following will shed some light for those of you, Mau and others that are looking for the "FS Holy Grail"   


Findings with the Nvidia 590 and 690 graphics cards.


We have 2 B737 sims here in Stockholm that uses a three screen setup with Warpalizer one with a Nvidia 590 and the other with a 690 card.
The frame rates are very satisfactory, what we all strive for is a fully fluent sim in all conditions and with most or all FS settings on MAX.
With FS9 we do now have a perfect thee projector sim with Nvidia 590/690 series graphics.

Since the cards have three accelerated output connectors MatroxTH2G is not needed anymore for a thee projector setup.
You do as before, make one screen ( 00 ) of the zoomed out FS Earth globe and put it behind the visible ones.
Then three visible FS screens ( 01 ), ( 02 ) and ( 03 ).

What is VERY important is that you use the correct output to the screens.
Left card output - Left projector, Center output to center projector and Right card output to Right Projector.
Failure to do so will result in FS9/FSX not being able to save your screen positions.


Performance and FS Computer

It seems to us that those Nvidia cards need a very fast processor - Intel Sandy Bridge Intel Core i7-2700K 3,5GHz / 8MB / Socket 1155/ is the optimal choice.
A Sandy Bridge 2600 "K" processor (predecessor) will of course do too as it also can be overclocked without problems.

The processor needs to be overclocked to at least 4.5 Ghz.  This can easily be done without problems with a good cooler.
Fast memory and WIN7 as OP (8 GB is optimal) in the FS computer is essential with the 590/690 cards.
Likewise SSD disks or WD 10000 rpm VelociRaptors for both OP system and FS.
The power drain with this system make it needing a good stable 1000W PSU from a quality manufacturer.

Please also understand that the average PC salesman or "expert" does not know what is required for an FS9/FSX based 3 projector sim and might lead you down the wrong alley.
If you try to save some $ and use less good FS PC components you will not get optimal results.

With the right gear as above we do have 50+ fps in FS9 even at dense add-on scenery and in bad weather.
Also when taxi fast in dense scenery (EGLL Heathrow for example) and making sharp turns the screens will not "jitter".
It does not matter if you use the Nvidia 590 or 690 - results are the same.

Especially when entering clouds you will see a big difference with the cards - the FR drop is a significantly smaller.

As soon as I get the "gain numbers" between the setups with and w/o TH2G confirmed by the sim #2 owner I will post them.
He has switched back and forth between FSX and FS9, so I am not quiet sure weather he runs FSX or FS9 at this moment, but will post a.s.a.p. whatever findings he can contribute with.


Best from Stockholm,
Bjorn


www.boeing737sim.se

[Maurice]

Thank you very much Bjorn. The specs on my FSX pc are at least as good as the ones you mentioned so I am anxiously waiting to hear performance impressions when running FSX since I will never go back to fs9?

So I hope sim #2 owner is using FSX as this will be the deciding factor if he is also able to get  a very fluent sim with FSX and without THG (FSX Holy Grail as you said

Thanks again,
Maurice

[saabpilot]

Hi guys,

Now I have got details about the "FR gain" with FSX after a Nvidia 690 install.
It seems the gain is at least in the 5-8 FPS range, however the new GPU shader reduced the frame drop in clouds notably.
Also difficult to measure the exact figure when you change graphics cards as the settings will be different.

With a heavy scenery like Aerosoft ESSA (Stockholm-Arlanda) no problems to have the majority of sliders in full and still get some 40-50 fps. This with 3 projectors connected + Warpalizer and without the TH2Go.
In any case with the Nvidia 690 setup it will give a fluent visual FSX scenery with no jitters.

But as stated before - you will need matching top components like mobo, memory, power and hard drives.
Also an overclocked CPU to at least 4.5 Ghz (which is very easy to achieve with Sandy Bridge K-series).


Bjorn

[Maurice]

Hi guys,

Now I have got details about the "FR gain" with FSX after a Nvidia 690 install.
It seems the gain is at least in the 5-8 FPS range, however the new GPU shader reduced the frame drop in clouds notably.

Bjorn

This is great news & bad news at the same time. I was still planning to find a GTX 680 but now that I've read this, I don't want to take a chance and I will very likely get the much more expensive 690 since I may as well go all out and get the best. 

Thanks very much for looking into this. I did not want to spend all that money without at least getting one opinion from someone who already tried it. And don't worry, I won't go after you if my results are not as good; I was likely going to take the chance anyway so nothing lost except some of my daughter's inheritance when I jump off a bridge 

Maurice

[Maurice]

OK, I bit the bullet, swallowed hard, said nice things to my wife  and ordered a GTX 690 today. I really do not expect to get more than 2 or 3 fps increase by turfing the TripleHead but getting higher fps never was my prime motivation anyway.

My main hope is that I will be able to get rid of these occasional annoying white flashes and hopefully get better overall fluidity. If I get that, I will be very happy.

I will report my findings once I get the card and figure out how to line up all the views again without the TripleHead.

Maurice

[Maurice]

Hi Bjorn,

Thanks again for your report about the GTX 690. As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I just ordered a GTX 690 but I came across a comment from Jetline system website that worries me a bit.

"Warning
The Nvidia GeForce GTX 690 and other dual GPU graphics cards
to be a significant performance decrease to FSX. This is due to
their integrated dual GPU design. Jetline is not offering these
models due to low FSX test results."

This came from this page:
http://jetlinesystems.com/performance.php

This goes against what you said but your statement is based on experience so I believe that more than what I read. But I now wonder if I would not have been better off with a 590 instead which has only one GPU as far as I know.

Can you confirm that the results you mentioned were taken with a 690 instead of a 590?  I can return the 690 and find a 590 if there is any doubt about the 690s performance.

Thanks again,

Maurice

[Nat Crea]

Mau...wishI had the answer for you on the 690...BUT do not take peoples opinions/ideas/random thoughts for Gospel....too many experts flying around 

Nat
(Ill probably be shot down, but Ive learnt to only speak when I have something factual to say)