Lost my monitors

[NeoMorph]

Actually having all those GPU's in a single box will definitely have caused a heat issue imho... did you ever have a thermal monitor run and get the GPU temps? They may not be over the norm too much but every degree shortens the life of the chips.

Question... did you overclock the cards at all? My guess they would be at standard speeds in a 4 card setup but some cards come overclocked already (my GTX 460 does for instance).

On the other hand it might just have been a duff chip... It happens! The one in my laptop lasted 2 weeks past the warranty of 1 year... damnit. Afterwards I found that Acer admitted they used a too powerful graphics chip for the air flow... they were replacing the graphics chip for a slower version and to compensate the user they were putting in a faster CPU... I found this out AFTER I had fixed my own laptop. 

[bussgarfield]

I bought the computer and screens as a retirement present for myself in April 2009. Nothing has been over clocked and I have done nothing to it other than add software. The write up on it was very good in PC Pilot magazine and it was advertised as a high end gaming computer. The specs are as follows.

Intel E8500 3.19 duo core
EVGA NF780i SLI LGA775 mobo
8GB DDR2 memory
780W PSU
3 X GeForce 9800 GT 512 DDR3 GPU's
3 X Hanns-G 22" wide screen LCD monitors.

Loads more spec but these are the main items.
Worked straight out of the box and factory built. The case has 3 fans on board, one at the back and front and a large one on the open mesh side. The CPU is fan and water cooled.
I have never seen the large side fan working so would suggest that the inside temp has not got too warm - even in the height of our Spanish summers.

Gary

[NeoMorph]

Either that or the side fan is faulty and not doing its job which is why the card overheated.

God, I'm such a pessimist...

[bussgarfield]

The card is not faulty. It works ok in my other computer so - if it is not the driver then it has to be the mother board - doesn't it ?

If I have a burnt out chip as has been given a a possible cause, then presumably it must be a chip that only supplies fodder for the lower PCI E slot. Is there a way that I can determine what fault if there is one on the mobo rather than forking out for a new one.

Thanks for the continued interest in these issues.

Gary

[NeoMorph]

OK, bad news time...

When the mobo has a bad slot it means that the chip that controls the PCI slots is going dodgy. My guess is that it's buggered up the power supplied to the slot but don't quote me on that. I do know when my mobo died on me (and it did eventually even after swapping the card into another slot) I just stripped out everything, replaced the mobo and then plugged everything back in (including the CPU and memory) and it worked fine.

Actually, a motherboard failure is a blessing as it's the cheapest component of the lot. It's just a damned pain to strip and build is all (and forking out the cash for it I suppose heh).

OK... that's something to think about... but lets try something else before we replace it. So we know that all the cards work in the other PC right? But when you put them into the old PC the one card doesn't work still? The gfx cards need the extra power cable don't they? Swap the power cables around so that the none working card gets another power lead (ie swap it with one from another card).

You see, it's possible that one of the power busses in the PSU has gone gaga. Ultimate test would be to swap out the PSU and test again. It could throw up a fault that would duplicate a graphics chip going gaga.

[bussgarfield]

NeoMorph,

You are full of ideas. Cheers mate. I have 2 new PSU's sitting in boxes ready and waiting for the cockpit power lighting and annuciator power supply so I will try swapping the power leads around first and if the problem still arises I can fire up one of the new PSU's.

Get back to you with any results.

Cheers
Gary

[bussgarfield]

Well, I am really in a tiz now.

All the GPU's work. All the power supplies are good so it is not the PSU.
I thought I would try - as a long shot - downloading a new driver from EVGA for the mobo.
I put all the GPU's back in their original slots and connected up the monitors to the original cards and fired up the beast. I got a message to tell me that the cards were in the wrong slots and windows would not open. I couldn't even load up the new driver.

Things now seem to be getting worse. I strongly suspect the mobo now and have been doing some research on a new one - £200ish - ouch.

As I am writing I am thinking of warranties so I will check with the original suppliers documentation to find out where I stand. Normally the UK companies do a 3 yr  return to base warranty so I will check.
If it is still under warranty, it might mean that I have to ship the whole computer back to them which is a very heavy item I can tell you. Now I have moved to Spain, that will cost more than a new mobo.

Shall I turn to drink - not an option - already there !!!!!!!!

Gary

[NeoMorph]

You can solve the slots problem by clearing the CMOS although you will have to set up your motherboard again.

Hmmmm... that's actually something I just thought of. I do remember a friend of mine who had a mobo that got into a tizz when there was a power surge. That threw some weird crap out too until we cleared the CMOS and reset it.

Try that Gary... can't hurt at least.

Oh and when I worked in a software house I always hated hardware problems... although there are funny moments too.

For example, there was this one site where half the network lost connection to the net... this was in the days where all networks were linked by coax cables (anyone remember cheapernet cables?). We tested all the hardware and it was all coming up OK... Then we come across this secretary who is moving some furniture around. What she had done was unplug her computer cables and not flicked a bypass switch on the wall port so the data hit the port and then stopped dead.

The funny bit gets when we explained to the secretary that the data was pouring out of the wall like if it was water and the room was now full of invisible data. Know what she said (and she meant it)... "But I didn't see anything coming out of the wall. Perhaps there is a blockage somewhere else and it's not reaching here!"

Then there was the time someone put an old IBM-XT on the network and it caused the rest of the network to slow to the speed of the AT. In those days the networks only worked as fast as the slowest machine on the net.

So yeah, problems like yours Gary really can turn you to drink... heh

[bussgarfield]

Cheers NeoMorph.

I have put the darned thing to bed for the night now and will pick up on it tomorrow.
I will try and reset the CMOS then. Like you say, nothing to lose now really - who knows.

Fingers crossed. I have explained to the good lady how expensive certain components are to test the water which did not meet with a lot of response. Ho hum.

Will keep you updated.

Gary

[NeoMorph]

I do know the power where I live has been a bit dodgy recently. We had a power cut of several hours the other day. Now I have put torches around the house just in case heh. Luckily this time I was using a LED headlight to do some soldering earlier and knew where to put my hands on it. Used a PDA to temporarily light my way.

Can you just imagine doing a flight of several hours and you are coming into land.... Fifty.... Forty... Thi...WHOOOM.... crackle... *blackout*

*facepalm*

I was in bed when the power cut hit... I have a power adjustable bed... and the back was raised so I could read. Power went out and I couldn't even lie back down to go to sleep. I think I'm gonna get a UPS for my bed now heh.

[jackpilot]

Power failures are a fact of life in my Canadian neck of the woods.
I have power packs on the PCs which beep when the juice quits and keep the computer alive for a while. Next line of defence is a 7000 watts generator.

Ahhh Global warming!!

[bussgarfield]

Hi Neo.

CMOS reset, all cards back in and powered up. CMOC settings set themselves to default and ------ same thing - just the one monitor.

What I have noticed when removing the GPU's for numerous tries at sorting things out, the top two are warm to the touch (the fan casing that is) but the lowest one is stone cold.

So, would you agree that it looks like the mobo.

By the way, it is 16.30 hrs here in Spain and not a drop has passed my lips - yet.

I do appreciate all the help and words of wisdom regarding my plight - cheers Neo and others.

Gary

[NeoMorph]

Yeah, sounds like you found the culprit.

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the cause of the fault."

... to misquote Sherlock heh.

Final question I think... Is the GPU fan working on the bottom card when the PC boots?

[bussgarfield]

Yes all fans are working.

I can't even get windows to fire up now. I keep getting the massage 'floppy drive failed (error 40)'.

I haven't got a floppy drive and I have been into the BIOS to change the drive start up order and disabled the non existant floppy drive but it now refuses to boot up. I was at least getting one monitor working now I can't even get that.

One other thing, I have been back to the suppliers and they have informed me that I will need to stick with the 780i mobo as with 3 GPU's there are not too many other options unless I want to replace the CPU and memory.

Better get the wallet out and start seaching on Ebay.

Thanks again for all your help - much appreciated.

Gary

[NeoMorph]

In the bios where there is the floppy drive there is a dialog that says Error messages... change that to "None", save and reboot. Might get it to boot up then.

But it does sound like the mobo is at fault and is finally giving up the ghost...

[bussgarfield]

I went into our local computer shop in town today and in my best Spanish explained my problem. I shall be taking it in to them in the next couple of days so they can have a look.

Also seems like the 780i  SLI mobo that accepts 3 PCI E X 16 GPU's is a rare commodity now days so I have asked the manufacturer to advise on a replacement in order for me to retain the CPU and memory. Heard nothing yet but I will keep you posted as to the outcome.

Gary

[NeoMorph]

I was having a look too and most support dual cards but not triple. Hell, my motherboard only has one PCIe 2.0 16x slot. It has another slot listed as 16x (running at 4x) whatever that means so my plan of running SLI isn't possible either.

[bussgarfield]

Hi all.
I now have a slight twist on this tale.

Having tried to source a new mobo without too much success, i bit the bullet and took the computer down to our local computer shop and in my best Spanish, exlplained my tale of woe to the repair man.

It turned out that he too was an aviation enthusiast and monitered radar and radio traffic locally. Not only that but he also installed all the fibre optics for the local military radar .... but I digress.

Long story short - All the hardware is fine and in good working order. It is not the mobo or GPU's, the CPU and memory are just dandy.

So what was the problem - Windows Vista. It had crashed big time.
He is going to reformat the HD and install Windows 7 for me. He said that he couldn't understand why MS even distibuted Vista as it was a mere stop gap whilst they completed all the tests on their main product - Windows 7.

I will find out on Tuesday when I pick the beast up and reinstall all my software and connect the 3 monitors back up again.

It would be interesting to know whether anyone else has had a Vista problem or are you all running Windows 7 ?

Gary

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hello gary........
(with tongue in cheek) i have to say i agree with your computer man, vista was a major disaster.   i just cannot
get on with it.   but just because i don't like it doesn't mean it's as bad as i think it is 
do yourself a favour and get a copy of W7....... so much better and kinder to the capabilities of what your machine is capable of.
good luck mate......

ian

[NeoMorph]

Ahhh DOH!

I never touched Vista as I had sooooooo many friends who did scream about how much of a nightmare it was.

Windows 7 though is a dream... I said Windows XP was awesome and I wouldn't leave it... after playing with Win7 though I have now got ONE PC running WinXP and that only because it isn't capable of running Win7 with the special hardware for my home automation. As I look at the screen for it about once every six months it doesn't really matter either heh.

That sure is good news though... I was 99% sure it was a graphics chip that had blew though after seeing so many of them go. I'm glad I was wrong.

Now my final bit of advice... Get an external drive. With a fully functional copy of Windows7 with the current MS updates onboard DO A FULL SYSTEM BACKUP sent to the external drive. Then install all you flight simulator stuff. Make sure it is all working and then make ANOTHER full backup to the external hard drive.

Now this is the most important thing. Disconnect the external hard drive and carefully put it into a fireproof safe.  That's what I do. I used to use Norton Ghost but for Windows 7 I use the built in version because when I tried it with Ghost I found the backups were broken... dunno if Norton have fixed it now but after the hassle I had I gave up on it, even after buying the latest and greatest Ghost that was supposedly Windows 7 compatible... and yes I did backup both partitions that Win7 creates.

Windows 7 FTW*

*(if you are not a gamer, FTW = For The Win).

[bussgarfield]

Well, the situation now seems to have gone from bad to worse.

The computer 'expert' in town, told me that all the hardware was good and when I went to pick up the beast he told me that he could not install W7 as the GPU's I had installed could not cope with W7 as there were no drivers available for W7. He subsequently re-installed Vista and all the drivers.

I eagerly fired up the beast when I got home and all monitors seemed to be working - they all showed the desk top screen.

I re-installed FSX, FSUIPC, and the SIOC script for MCP, radios COM and NAV and EFIS.
I loaded up a plan for the default 737 from Schipol to Bristiol and then set about expanding to front view to my 3 monitors. Bl**dy hell, the same thing happened. The right and left monitors flashed and froze again. I was able to complete the flight on the centre monitor - zoomed out ....... but ....... I flew visual as now, FSX would not keep the designated squawk code but kept defaulting to a code of 1200.

I am totally p***ed off now.

I now plan to invite the 'expert' up to my abode (as he is also into aviation), let him have a fly on the one monitor and then ask for his 'expert' opinion. He may then realise that something is wrong.

The hard drive was wiped clean and everything installed back on so I am satisfied now that, as Neo described, this is not a software problem but lies deeper within the bowels of the hardware.

In the mean time, if anyone can throw some light on why FSX wont except the squawk code once issued and I confirm via the radio then I would be very obliged.

I can still fly on the one monitor which, incidently allows me to expand the the PFD and MFD onto a seperate monitor from the same GPU, but this is not acceptable given the previous arrangment that I had.

Sorry to harp on about this but I am now getting very desperate for a solution. If it is the hardware then I would like to pin point the problem rather that replacing the mobo, GPU's or anything else on a guessing game.

Gary

[NeoMorph]

OKaaayyyyy... I'm a little bit confused here...  Took me all of 10 seconds to find the Windows 7 Drivers (both 32 and 64bit) for your 9800 GT cards and even the nForce drivers for your motherboard... You sure this guy knows what he is doing?

32 bit version
http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7-winvista-32bit-266.58-whql-driver.html

64bit version
http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7-winvista-64bit-266.58-whql-driver.html

In the supported drivers list....

GeForce 9 series:
9300, 9500 GT, 9300 GE, 9800 GTX/GTX+, 9400, 9400 GT, 9800 GT, 9600 GT, 9200, 9300 GS, 9600 GS, 9500 GS, 9600 GSO, 9100, 9800 GX2

Motherboard Drivers 32 bit
http://www.nvidia.com/object/nforce_win7_32bit_15.53.html

Motherboard Drivers 64 bit
http://www.nvidia.com/object/nforce_win7_64bit_15.53.html

In the supported products list...

nForce 7 series:
790i SLI, 790i Ultra SLI, 780i SLI

... so I'm kind of thinking it's the same type of expert that told me my laptop was unfixable and was just junk 4 years ago. It is now sitting in the living room working after I found the parts on ebay and fixed it myself lol. Now sometimes

The drivers are available Gary, including the SLI support ones.

Supports single GPU and NVIDIA SLI technology on DirectX 9, DirectX 10, DirectX 11, and OpenGL, including 3-way SLI, Quad SLI, and SLI support on SLI-certified Intel X58-based motherboards.

I never knew you could even go as high as quad SLI these days... Wonder what boards support it and if you need a mortgage to buy one heh.

Still sounds like a chip is borderline duff... whether it is on the card or on the motherboard I have no idea. It's still sounding like my one Xbox... runs for about 5 minutes before going crazy graphics time...

OK, I have just remembered a crazy experiment I did with my one PC.

Set up your PC as usual but leave the side panel off... Take a 12" desk fan (or two) and aim them at the guts of the PC and turn them on full. Start up your PC and see if you have the problem still. I remember one PC that would only work if it was setup like that after something went wonky.

[CeeGee]

Gary, Just to clarify the transponder code mystery:

1. You were using an FSX saved IFR flight from Schipol to Bristol?
2. Flown using "on screen" FSX ATC commands?
3. All ATC instructions were complied with [even whilst the monitors were freaking out]?
4. FSX cancelled your IFR clearance and reverted you to VFR [Sq 1200].
5. Did you get an "on screen" message cancelling your IFR clearance?

FSX is programmed to cancel your IFR clearance if you deviate from the flight planned route and you ignore remedial instructions twice. The same applies if you ignore ATC instructions, 3 strikes and you are out, well revert to VFR anyway. Just trying to see if you missed anything or if there is a system fault. I might be following you to Spain if the winters in Jolly Old carry on like this, let us know what your expert says when he sees your pit. Charlie.

[bussgarfield]

Hi Neo and Hi Charlie.

Calmed down a bit now from my previous rantings.

Lots to discuss really.

Neo - I whole heartidly concur with you as I also tried a search for the W7 drivers. This 'expert', whilst a very friendly chap leaves a lot to be desired. I may firstly get a copy of W7 and go my own way with the drivers. I tried another flight today and same thing happened. The right and left screens played up but I had no problem with the centre (main) screen, so was able to fly. I moved the EICAS to the right screen and apart from the blacknesss all around it, it performed fine - so the screen and card appear to be ok - unless they are put under load - so to speak - when they flash and freeze like nobodies business. Is it a problem with FSX?. The ATC box and messages work fine when moved to the left screen - apart from the reluctance to acknowledge the issued squawk code.

Which is where you come in Charlie.
I started a new flight plan from Glasgow to Stansted. Made my flight plan using the FSX tools and guess what? - they still refused to acknowledge the squawk code
I run FSX with SP1, SP2 and Acceleration !!!!

When looking at the radio window in F10 mode, the squawk code changes briefly to the designated one and then reverts back to 1200. I can not physically change it, it still goes back to 1200.

I have re-loaded the flight and FSX but the same thing happens. I can fly by cancelling the flight plan and flying on my own but this kind of defeats the object.

I really do appreciate the long list of viewers on this subject and the offers of advice.
I will persevere and keep you updated.

Gary

[Bob Reed]

When it switches back to 1200, what does the FSX transponder read?