45 degree rotaties order... anyone in?

[matta757]

Hey guys,

Well i have been searching and searching for rotary switches with an indexed angle of 45 degrees AND make-before break (or shorting) configuration. They are out there, but no one actually carries them. But since the 45 degree switch is SO prevalent on the 757 panel, I really need to get them. C & K Components makes a shorting 45 degree switch, but like I said, no one is currently carrying them. But that's not going to stop me.

Apparently the minimum order for C&K is 25 switches at a price of about $3.50 USD per switch for a total price of around $90 USD. I only need about 10 of them. So I was wondering if anyone else is looking for this type of switch and would like to go in on an order? I am able to get them locally though a company, so there would be no shipping costs from the distributor.

I am going to order them, so I will be getting 25 switches for sure, so again, if anyone is needs one of these very rare switches, I would love to have someone go in on them with me. Let me know either by responding or by PM!

Regards,
Matt

[Kennair]

Hi Matt,

I need 19 for the 777 so a little more than you can spare from that order but the price sounds excellent.  I'm not sure if make-before-break is necessary however and in fact might adversely affect my interfacing.  Why do you need this type rather than the standard break-before-make?

Ken.

[matta757]

Ken,

I need the make-before-break switches because the software I have uses "switch decrease" and "switch increase" for almost all of the switch functions, they don't have specific assignments for each position of the switch, thus I need to be able to turn them into Rotary Encoders, using Ian's excellent method.

The break-before-make switches do not work with this method as the circuit breaks before reaching the next position and sends haywire messages to the joystick module.

But, if you need 19 of them, I might be able to do a mixed order, I do not know if that 25 was the minimum order per switch type, although now that I think about it, it probably is. I probably won't hear back from this company before monday, so if you want to check it out and see if your switch type matters, just get back to me. If you want, I will make a larger order to cover your needs as well, which might actually decrease the price of the switches.

Anyone else?!

[fordgt40]

Matt

I assume that you have discounted using Opencockpit cards and sioc - you would not then have the problem of "make before break" and the wiring would be easier

As I understand from previous posts, you want to use a rotary as an encoder to avoid using up inputs on your Bodnar card. If you are using rotaries to simulate an encoder which  "incs or decs", then when you start how does flightsim know which index (45deg segment) the switch is actually pointing to - ie its start position?

Or perhaps I am being dim - again  

David

[matta757]

David,

Perhaps it's me being dim  but how could I use an OC card and SIOC to make these switches have an assignment for each position if the software itself doesn't specify the position?

To answer your startup question, basically when I shut down the aircraft after a flight, all the switches are put into the position that they belong in when the game starts up with the aircraft cold and dark.

Matt

[fordgt40]

Matt

It is very simple. Each switch position is wired to an input terminal on the IO card. When the switch is "made" the IOcard tells the software. The software then acts according to what you have coded. For example suppose you have a switch with 4 positions and these have been wired to an IOcard then this is what could easily be coded.

If switch1 = 1 then turn on led for "engaged"
If switch2 = 1 then send value x to FSUIPC offset value y
If switch3 = 1 then set Autobrake FSUIPC offset value z to 2
If switch4 = 1 then send 0 to FSUIPC altitude Offset

The above is not strict syntax but shows the flexibility of what can be achieved.
You are not restricted by hard wiring, if you get something wrong then change the code. All connected switches can trigger different events eg lighting up leds or sending values to FSUIPC offsets etc

So the software knows the position of the switch by virtue of which input is connected.

David

[matta757]

David,

I sort of follow, however, what if my software does not have offsets within FSUIPC?

Matt

[fordgt40]

Matt

Not really certain what you mean here. It is FSUIPC that provides the offsets, unless you are running an avionics package such as Project Magenta, Sim-Avionics etc, which will also have their own. What is it that you think you cannot do?

David

[Kennair]

Matt, yes get a price for the break-before-make rotaries for me.  I'd be happy to buy 25 if that's the minimum order size as the price seems about half of what is on offer elsewhere currently.  If you can mix them all the better, just get enough for you and for me.  I'll get 20 in that case.  Let me know.

Also I agree with David, sounds like you might be going about things the hard way.  OC encoders will simplify the process but will add expense, but you could also just pick up some of those cheap Chinese encoders which I believe work with the Bodner card.  Also any software interface to FS must talk via something like FSUIPC and use offsets.  Both PM and Sim-A do this via FSUIPC but just use their own dedicated offset range however they are still free to use the standard offsets if desired.

Good luck,

Ken.

[Aerosim Solutions]

Hi Ken,
I got my 45 rotaries from Carl Parker at -
Soanar Electronics

Western Australia
Unit 14, 87 McLarty Ave
Joondalup, Perth
WA 6027

He got them in from C & K

Cheers Gwyn

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hello chaps......
Ken, i think that what Matt is really looking to achieve primarily is to synchronise the indexing.   standard encoders will not allow that because of the number of detentes that they tend to have.   that's why we have been looking to make them with C&K rotary's.    i have them working using an Alpha rotary, but the problem is they are only 30 degree index.

Matt, i'm a little nervous of you buying a batch before actually experimenting with one first.   I have the switch ref. no. from the data sheet i sent you.      possibly, RS or Conrad have them in europe.   i'd like to try making an encoder with one of these before you go and spend big bucks.   i'll have a look at their websites.

regards

ian

[jackpilot]

Very wise and very nice offer...
Great crew!
JP

[matta757]

David and Ken,

Alright, at the risk of making myself look like an idiot I will try to explain why I don't quite understand how I could get the OC option to work. I am using PSS software for my 757. Take for example a switch like the HSI range indicator; it has 6 positions. But when assigning keyboard or buttons through PSS, it is not based on each position (ie. 10,20,40,80,160,320) but it is instead based on whether the switch is increasing or decreasing; it's acting as an encoder. I am not sure which, if any, offsets in FSUIPC would pertain to these functions in the PSS software and that's why I don't understand how it could be programmed through SIOC.

hello chaps......
Ken, i think that what Matt is really looking to achieve primarily is to synchronise the indexing.   standard encoders will not allow that because of the number of detentes that they tend to have.   that's why we have been looking to make them with C&K rotary's.    i have them working using an Alpha rotary, but the problem is they are only 30 degree index.

Matt, i'm a little nervous of you buying a batch before actually experimenting with one first.   I have the switch ref. no. from the data sheet i sent you.      possibly, RS or Conrad have them in europe.   i'd like to try making an encoder with one of these before you go and spend big bucks.   i'll have a look at their websites.

regards

ian

Precisely right, Ian. I tried looking for standard encoders with only 8 detentes but there are none out there. I sort of understand how I could get it to work with an OC card and SIOC, but that means added expense of the card and a bunch of time trying to figure out SIOC.

Ian, I understand and appreciate your last statement about wanting to test them out first. I have not yet placed the order, in fact one of the companies got back to me today and said they are not authorized to order these particular switches or something, so if you are able to find one of them from someone in Europe and experiment and confirm that they work, that would be awesome. Even better, if you find someone in Europe who can supply them on an individual basis, let me know.

Regards,
Matt

[Kennair]

Ah yes now I see Matt.  PSS may have specific key functions built into its panel to allow range settings etc.  A bit like PMDG keycodes.  Unfortunately FS doesn't have any native support for these values so you'd need to do what you and Ian are doing or get addon software such as LevelD767, PM or Sim-A (however these won't specifically support the 757)

Meanwhile if you're testing and configuring still, I will source my 45 degree rotaries independently.  Thanks for the offer though.

Good luck,

Ken.

[fordgt40]

Matt

Things are clearer now! As a matter of interest, how do you send the inc/dec info to PSS?

Good luck

David

[matta757]

David,

PSS allows keyboard assignments for every function. This means there is an "Increase" key and a "decrease" key. Thus, by making an encoder, it sees switch A when turned counterclockwise and switch B when turned clockwise and each is then assigned a keyboard assignment through FSUIPC.

Matt

[fordgt40]

Matt

I think that you can actually do that through the OC USB keys card, however, I suspect you are not inclined to go the OC route 

David

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hello chaps..........
David, the USBKeys card wont do the trick because a rotary can't give rotational direction.  it can only tell you what position it's in when a contact is closed.
Matt, Conrad don't carry the C&K switch you need. i'll have a look at RS tomorrow.
rgds

ian

[fordgt40]

Ian

I still think there is a way using a rotary switch and then programming SIOC to send the appropriate  + or - keystrokes to PSS,  but will give up 

KISS! (keep it simple stupid)

Regards

David

[matta757]

David,

There MIGHT be a way, but it would no doubt be difficult to code and the OC cards are expensive. The only card I have is the DC motors card...

Matt