Opencockpits DC motor woes... :(

[matta757]

Hey guys,

So I tried to hook up my Opencockpits DC motor card today. I have 12V motors, so I soldered an AC adapter with a 12V 750mA DC output  to the power pins on the card, careful to make sure the live wire was attached to the + pin and the other to the - pin. I soldered the motor wires to the card, again respecting the proper + and - pins. Then I plugged the card in and plugged in the power.

The card showed up briefly, but then disappeared. When I felt the card, it felt warm to the touch. I don't know how it could have happened, but I am worried that I blew-out the card somehow. I used only 12V, which is less than the 36V the card is made for. The adapter had .75 amp, when the card specified 1 amp so that shouldn't have been an issue. My friend who is good with electrics had told me that Amps can't blow the card out.

This is where my frustration with Opencockpits and their poor instruction manuals comes in. There was no mention in the manual about what power supply to use, etc. So I simply used what my motors needed, which is less than what the card was made for. How could I have blown the card?

If anyone can help me understand and solve this problem, I would be grateful. Thanks. At this point, Phidgets is looking pretty attractive (despite the increase in price PLUS my loss on the DC card). SO FRUSTRATED right now

Matt

[mikeh]

couple of questions - did you test the card with the supplied DCMotor card test software before linking any motors or indeed the external 12v supply?
Did it respond as expected? - i.e. the ini settings were correct
If all ok to here then I presume you connected power supply, moter and pot - if so can you send me a copy of the test SIOC code used to control the motor - Ta Mike

ok got a copy of the schematic -
can you confirm that you were using a computer USB output capable of powering the card +5V. ?
do you have the reset switch fitted?
the diag downloadable from the web site is a poor scan and I am unable to decipher the connections going into the tree of diodes at bottom left and to see the relevant connections from these motor outputs to the diode tree.
try removing all motors etc from the card, check your .ini file and re-power from a new USB connection (maybe a spare pc) with the relevant dc card test program operating.

Just for info the 12V 0.75a power source shows what it is capable of supplying - not what it was delivering. - if no motors were connected - just the power supply then theoretically 0.0 amps would flow into the board.
the big thing here is powering the chips from the usb output. It is possible to kill chips by backpowering their gates from an outside source (especially the PIC IC1) if the main power supply is not avail. - ps this can also kill the computer usb output - check if the output still feeds other devices ok
what is the motor ratings? give me a watts rating or a url - Ta
OK looking on the positive side - warm is OK - HOT is bad.
what do you mean by the card appeared for a bit then disappeared

Re the OC frustrstion - yes even i pull my hair out looking for ALL the info before powering for the first time BUT to be fair - their products are cheap for what you get and their plug and play modules do suit the 'uninitiated' market.
LAst question - did you buy the board built up or build it yourself?

[matta757]

Alright Mike, I'm going to answer your questions as best I can.

"did you test the card with the supplied DCMotor card test software before linking any motors or indeed the external 12v supply?"

I don't think I did this as I didn't know there was software to test with. A while back, before connecting any power supply, I had connected the motors and tried to write the codes for the autothrottle. The card showed up in the OC program and all seemed to be fine. But I do not remember running any test program. Again, OC's manuals are garbage and I had no idea such program was available.

can you confirm that you were using a computer USB output capable of powering the card +5V. ?
do you have the reset switch fitted?

Yes, the USB port has been able to power other +5v boards, like Leo's BUO836X. I have no idea what the reset switch is, so I don't know if it was fitted or not. Again, OC's manuals... ugh.

what is the motor ratings? give me a watts rating or a url - Ta
OK looking on the positive side - warm is OK - HOT is bad.
what do you mean by the card appeared for a bit then disappeared

http://servocity.com/html/10_rpm_gear_motor1.html
These are the motors I am using. I don't see a watts rating on there. To update, it felt warm but when I held it again and for a little longer, it felt much warmer (I dare say hot). I am almost positive this card is fried. When I plug it into any USB port now (but not the AC adapter plugged in) it doesn't show up. Actually, it was recognized briefly by the computer (made the sound when you plug in a USB device) but then it disappeared again (followed by the sound made when you unplug a USB device) without my actually unplugging it.

Re the OC frustrstion - yes even i pull my hair out looking for ALL the info before powering for the first time BUT to be fair - their products are cheap for what you get and their plug and play modules do suit the 'uninitiated' market.
LAst question - did you buy the board built up or build it yourself?

No, I did not build it myself, it came built. I just received an email from OC saying that my power supply is ideal for that board.


12 Volts and 750mA power source is ideal for use with USBDCMotor card.

    When the card have those type of problems, normally is because has been connected reversed polarity or shourcut in one of connections in the motors. Also can be one shortcutted motor or one motor with more consuption of DCMotor can give.

    Those cards has been tested and passed control quality.

    Can be the only IC damaged is the microcontroller. You can buy one microcontroller with USBDCMotor firmware writed and check.

I hardly even understand what he is trying to say. But frankly, I am just plain pissed off about this. I did A LOT of research into how to PROPERLY attach the power supply because I was worried about this kind of thing happening. I talked to people who understand electricity and made sure I was using the proper kind of supply. I tested the wires when they were live to make sure I connected the live + wire to the proper pin. I did EVERYTHING I thought I needed to do to protect myself and STILL this damn card seems to be a loss. There goes $75 down the drain.

Thanks for your help, Mike. If my answers help you understand this problem better, let me know.

Regards,
Matt

[matta757]

Mike,

Wanted to give you an update. I disconnected both motors and the AC power source. Then plugged the card back into the USB port (on my laptop right now) and the card is recognized. So apparently it has not been fried, sigh of relief from here.

But this leaves me in an interesting position. Where do I proceed from here? What is the test software you were talking about and where do I get it? Is it part of SIOC?

Also, where do I go for a power source from here? Do I need to buy a specific AC adapter? Did I do something wrong before? I am so frustrated right now because I spent all this time over the last year doing what I thought was figuring these things out, only to feel that I have to start over.

I sincerely appreciate your, and everyone's, help on this issue. I do not know what I would do without such a knowledge base. Probably blow the house up! If you can answer any of my questions, I look forward to it!

All the best,
Matt

[mikeh]

ok so card is good - great -
On the OC downloads page - select iocards  usbDCmotors(4) and download the last option the USBDC moters controller software
the EXE file
OK turning to the motor.
Do you have a spare ATX or similar computer power supply. - if so this would be great
if not do this first bit with your 12v supply
just using your fingers or crocodile (aligator) clips,  connect the motor direct to the 12v supply - no risk to yourself here- its all low volts/low current stuff
Motor should start turning immediately. - if not then stop - probably the geartrain is jammed or worse - incidentally this would also cause the motor to become hot since the motor is stalled. - if test is ok - reverse the connections and make sure the motor reverses without any stresses
let me know when this is all ok - i will try and get back on again today to continue the saga
late question - do you have a test meter (voltmeter) with leads?
do you have webcam
do you have teamviewer 6


1st is for some no load tests of the board
2nd so i can see (1)
3rd is standard helpdesk software so i can get onto your machine to support you - I use this software in VA to support others and to do training
You have to decide whether to trust me coming into your machine - I dont have an issue if you are worried - will find another way - the system is protested by a 1 use password so having let me in once I cant get in again without a new password
we can use cockpit builders teamspeak server for the chat bit
Mike

[matta757]

Mike,

I downloaded and ran that EXE last night. It recognized the card. Don't know if there is something else you want me to do with this part.

As for the motors, both before hooking them up the other day and then also this morning, testing with the AC adapter wires connected, both motors function beautifully in both directions. So the motors don't appear to be the problem.

I do not have a webcam. I used to have Teamviewer and can certainly get it again. I suppose we can connect via PM about a chat if that becomes necessary.

Thanks again for your help.

Matt

[mikeh]

Matt how about access to a voltmeter?

have you read this article ?

http://www.mutleyshangar.com/reviews/jack/dcm/dcm.htm

[matta757]

Oops, sorry, yes I do have access to a volt meter. That was how I made sure I knew which wire was the live one. Pretty sure it read just a tad bit higher than 12 volts when I tested it.

Thanks for the link, I am reading it right now!

[mikeh]

ok having got to a position on a machine where the board is registered and all the relevant software installed put a 100 ohm  resistor ( or similar) in series with the output of the power supply. this is to limit the current taken to a few milliamps
put the meter set to 10 or at worst 100 mA and connect in line between one leg of the power supply and  the board - AFTER THE BOARD HAS BEEB CONNECTED VIA THE USB PORT AND REGISTERED WITH THE COMPUTER - If reading is near zero good - else stop immediately
Let me know results
WHERE WE ARE GOING IN FUTURE - if all ok what you need to do is write a piece of code to exercise one of the outputs and using the voltmeter in volts mode (15volts or nearest on range selector) and measure the volts at the board output that would go to the motor. This shows whether the circuits are working without putting any load on the board.
It would have been easier to have had a 5v output from the computer power supply fed to the connector since the motor does work at 5V and this would have stopped any stress on any ic's when doing initial testing. - but hey we are where we are i dont suppose you have access to an oscilloscope?
Mike

[matta757]

Mike,

Alright, I decided to try this. I plugged the card into the USB. It was not connected to either motor or the power source. I am still worried that something is wrong because it took me a few tries plugging in then unplugging and plugging back in for SIOC to recognize the card. Once SIOC finally recognized the card, I used my volt meter set to 10v and put the connectors to the pins on the card. The reading was just shy of 5v, like I am assuming it should have been if the card was working properly.

One thing, did you see on the bottom of the article you posted that one problem the writer had was when he plugged the USB cord in before turning on the power. If he plugged the USB in first, the card was not recognized. I wonder if this is the problem I had with the card? Would like to hear what you think.

Matt

[matta757]

Mike,

To update- I think something is wrong with the card. SIOC identifies it at first. But if you close, then open, then close and then open SIOC, the programs ends up either 1) not responding or 2) the DC motors card is not properly identified.

Also, as per my last post, the card did show response on the volt meter- at first. But upon trying it again, and again, and again the volt meter response is hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I feel completely ripped off by OC given that their instruction manual doesn't say a WORD about what/how to hook up a power supply to prevent ruining the card. Doesn't say anything about what kind of supply to use. On top of that, they have not been responding to my emails since their initial response. I am just so fricken pissed right now. I thought of switching to Phidgets, but those are much more expensive and the codes don't look to be that much easier (at least until DVATX allows for DC motors).

I am at a loss for what to do.

[fordgt40]

Matt

Not wishing to cut across Mike, but your symptoms of intermittent card recognition are typical of when the card is plugged into a hub and not the motherboard.

Fully understand your frustration and annoyance with OC "spanglish" etc  but perhaps you are being a little bit harsh on OC.

Good luck

David

[mikeh]

David, I agree with you - The OC people started out as a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs who made cards and components avail to the community. They are basically Spanish individuals who do their best to translate into english. Most times not very well but for us europeans - used to travelling to Spain and France etc for holidays we get used understanding what is called 'spanglish' or pigeon english. They (like us) also like people to start a conversation in their mother tongue even if its just the gooday formalities. We generally converse with them by also translating our emails into spanish (probably as poor as their english is) after the english paragraph -  but between us we manage to get the essence of the message.  A level of understanding is also expected and these days most IOCP / SIOC issues are understood - especially by experts Like Nico Kaan. the DC motors board is a derivative of the usb servo board and I would have expected to do all my tests and software development using futaba servos (even on the motors board) and running leads out of the servo to mimic 1 the control influence 2, the feedback positional pot and lastly the motor movement.
MATT be aware the motor movement is the last thing to concentrate on; its a given, if the other 2 are working ok
Anyway continuing your issues
If the results are 'intermittent' then i guess the board is not kaput!.
One of the requirements of IOCP / SIOC is that the powering and recognition system has to be correctly sequenced
SIOC contains the IOCP server and the cfg  ini and ssi files have to be connected and re-initialised in the correct order.
the board should be connected, usb then powered, then the software installed. the sioc powered first and having checked all looks ok - clients registering in the sioc window etc,
the last thing to do is 'reload' the the ssi p0rogramme (bottom left of the sioc window) to force a re-connection of the hardware to the software
hope this is helping

[727737Nut]

I have been using OC stuff since early 2003 and can understand your frustrations.  They are what they are, a cheaper alternative with powerful programmable capability.  The downside, they are not designed for optimum connectivity then you add the language barrier and bam, frustration.  I had numerous USB issues along the road with OC stuff so i'm going go on a limb here and say that their USB part of their cards is elementary at best in design.  I would have to unplug, re-plug, un power the hub then re-power, change hubs all in an effort to get something functioning.  It would normally be only 1 card out of my many that would cause issues in the whole lot!   
Bottom line, send it back for a replacement and try again.  The chips get their power from the USB so it doesn't matter on the pwr supply but it is clearly marked on the manual which is + and which is -
I think your issue could be a solder joint on the usb connector or on the pcb somewhere or even the HUB you are using.
Rob

[fordgt40]

Mike/Rob

Fully agree with your posts. OC are frequently frustrating, but it is worth the effort - assuming you are prepared to do it! I have done my "rites of passage" so luckily, those days are now behind me and I have MIP, O/H, Ped, FMC, MCP, EFIS and shortly the Throttle all working off OC cards. Best advice - keep at it, SIOC is a very powerful package

Regards

David

[matta757]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not even faulting OC for the "spanglish" as you guys put it... I am siding with the person who wrote that article that Mike posted: it's a content problem. There is not enough information in the manuals for the DC motor card. I understand and appreciate what OC does, but it would be nice if there was a bit more substance about HOW to use the card in the manuals they provide.

Rob- I emailed them and they shrugged me off, as if I need to just buy a new card. That's why I am so pissed. I don't have money to just be throwing around like this. I feel like I did EVERYTHING I could to try to protect my investment by doing the research on how to connect this damn thing.

Matt

[727737Nut]

What I did was email the sales dept. and I got authorization thru them that way to return the card.  Get this, they repaired a master card that I BUILT for FREE!!  Never was told what was wrong but never the less it was handled.  Keep trying.