Here's a pic of the new framework:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geneb.org%2Fimages%2Fmirror_framework.jpg&hash=5080bd1d6a8c7aff714930187c74656a2368eade)
..and a walk-around video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdOnzHXpyNk
We're getting closer! :)
g.
Well "affordable" is relative. If you don't have a CNC machine to cut the parts, you're SOL.
We don't know if we can release a full plan set yet - the mirror frame uses a feature that's under active patent. Once it's finished we'll try to get a free, "for non-commercial use" license from Rockwell-Collins.
g.
The mirror is as large as can be built using commercially available mylar sources. The widest roll of mylar you can get is 56" and that will be just enough to give you an 8' diameter mirror. Before you ask, no, you can't glue two sheets together. :)
g.
What you need to do is let HER decide.
"Honey, it's either flight simulators or strip clubs. You pick."
:D
g.
Nice work Gene.......
Thanks!
g.
Bloody unreal Gene!
Are you going to use this for your F-15?
Nat
Unfortunately, this kind of display system won't work out very well with the F-15. It's just too small. The F-15 will get a "standard" curved display.
g.
Gene,
This is amazing. I just looked at the videos, what you have accomplished here is a new beginning. Something None of us ever thought pissible in our hobby.
I cannot tell you enough what a giant leap this is for the hobby.
Congratulations on this project. I can't wait to see it done.
Thanks Trevor. It's not just all me though. My friend Wayne is an aerospace engineer and he's done all the heavy lifting on the math end of things.
Check out http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll/collimated_display.html
g.
Amazing. I don't know what else to say, but that. its incredible.
I'm getting more excited as the first full-size display comes together - I've got it modelled in Sketchup to make sure it will fit in my office, but seeing the model on-screen and seeing the real thing take shape are two totally different things.
Pieces are coming together quick at this point - it shouldn't be much longer now.
Just for fun, I stood in the assembly and held up a scrap of foam roughly the size of a 19" monitor at arm's length - it just about fills about a third of the vertical view and maybe a bit more than two of the ribs - I plan to tie my jaw shut before the first startup of FSX just to keep my jaw from hitting the floor.
-Wayne
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just had a look at the Boeing P8 demo trailer.
They integrate thiers in the demo as part of the forward (only) display.
Not ideal and way too big on the screen, but interesting.
Well I suppose we could add a drool-towel rack to the outer framework... :)
..or maybe some of those disposable lobster bibs with a Simpits logo on them? :D
FYI folks, I've gotten the ribs for the screen cut and the arms for holding the screen in place were cut last night. Just need to sand, seal & paint the arms.
The funny part is, the display system will be complete long before we've got a cockpit to stuff in the hole. *laughs*
g.
Give me a chair, stick, throttle, and an extra screen for the instrument panel, and I'd be happy for a while without any additional cockpit structure.
I still can't beleive you guys are making this a reality. The display you are building should be stunning when it is complete, and I bet you are still doing it for a fraction of the cost of the CAE Displays :)
Trev
Trev, if it's any consolation, neither can we. :D
g.
YEah, don't got disturbing RC at all. We'll take care of that process when the time comes.
FYI, providing the model in the Google 3D warehouse was accurate, a B1900 WILL fit in our 8' mirror.
g.
I find it hard to beleive that the big companies would even bother with us hobby guys. regardless, it is fun to play :)
Quote from: Trevor Hale on May 13, 2011, 12:53:32 PM
I find it hard to beleive that the big companies would even bother with us hobby guys. regardless, it is fun to play :)
Come on Trev! Even corporate lawyers get bored from time to time.
LOL.. Good point.. Well, regardless A home made project would look awefully funny in front of a judge and watching their lawyer say that your homemade project is the same or even superior to their multi-million dollar setups LOL.
I'm no lawyer but I believe it wouldn't stand up in court anyway. You're using it at home for personal use, not selling it or making money off it.
It's not about looking good in front of a judge, or even about winning. It's about protecting the intellectual property. In a fight like that, spending good money to bring us to court until we can't afford to fight anymore is a valid tactic, and is what we want to afford. Sure, we could probably point to case law regarding personal use, but we'd go broke before we could even get to court, and the corporate lawyers know that. Our best option is to go to them with case law FIRST, and ask permission.
Why does this debate always come up. Its ridiculous.Everything we buy today is copy of someone elses idea The car industry wouldnt be where it is today without it. As cockpit builders we have been buying exact replica hardware and software for years but now your worried about the legality of a homebuilt display.
Give your head a shake. :huh:
Yep, Im with Gary...
Boeing might as well lock us all up...
Fact is were not stealing sales from Boeing or CAE,
I think they would be more flattered honestly.
Nat
You guys are confusing copyright with patents.
There are fair use provisions in copyright and that's why building yourself a 737 flight deck is no big deal. With fair use, you can create a copy for personal use without issue.
Copyright isn't something we're worried about - the setup we're building is 100% of our own design. The problem comes where we're using a patented technique in the construction of the mirror. There is no fair use for patents - while we can _technically_ build a patented device in order to understand how it works, it gets sticky when we provide information to others as to how THEY can build one for themselves.
This whole project will come out one of two ways. We'll get the permission we need for a free non-commercial license and we can release the plans. The other way, we don't get permission and we release what we can, point you at the patent we referenced and tell you to figure it out for yourselves.
Keep in mind all that needs to happen to wipe us both out is for them to just _file_ a suit. That's just the way it is - we need to play as nice as we can with these folks.
The chance of us actually getting permission is pretty small - but it's big enough to be worth asking. Please don't rock the boat.
Watch this spiffy video instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7553ZkkPXY
:D
g.
This update should cover the past couple of weeks worth of work... :)
The "spider" arms for the screen & projector support platform were cut out last weekend.
Here's what they looked like right after getting sanded & painted with shellac sanding sealer:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fspider_legs_and_screen_back.jpg&hash=0f891df863f825cf3baaa0d3e9fcced4219eb4ae)
In order to strengthen the material joints in the screen support parts, we needed to cut a set of doublers. Part of this was seeing if we could get the 'bot to do the countersinks for us. I had a 3/8" 82 degree countersink that I could fit to the 1/4" collet on the 'bot. Wayne created a file in VCarve that would have countersinks at various depths - turns out .210" is perfect for a #8 flat head screw:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Ffirst_bot_countersinks.jpg&hash=2031f3fbcadc0267918e64c53a345823c7729bd4)
Having the 'bot do all these is a LOT easier than me doing it with a microstop!
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fright_way_to_countersink.jpg&hash=be11fd7a5e839b57d2759ca2b9610185f42bac07)
This is what the doubler parts looked like as they're being cut:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fcutting_doublers.jpg&hash=f74c063d6f39e5ca39b7ad290ad503fa2b32658f)
...and after being glued & screwed to the screen support panel:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fdoublers_installed.jpg&hash=f6bc8ddce98a4ea06ee9449e3eee8b2ad0eb3ff9)
After getting those in, we added the "spider" legs - you can see from the picture why I call them that:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Farms_installed.jpg&hash=3dc29799eee0b45f11f1a833e12e9100296cf515)
Here's a picture of what it looked like after we got the top layer added.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fscreen_support_assembled.jpg&hash=2cd7d464766f89d5b5f1d0d6ee365cd04e12cfc0)
Like most spiders, this one doesn't like being on its back...
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fspider_on_back.jpg&hash=b1002c37d8f441ea8da17d998ef574cec20416f6)
Here's a long shot with the screen support resting on the mirror framework.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fside_wayne.jpg&hash=2073570d49857a0215e3059313442a9b341eb58b)
Just for the heck of it, Wayne clamped in the first screen section we ever built - this is actually a small slice of the full size screen you saw being assembled in the time-lapse video.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Ftest_screen.jpg&hash=bc6726e7656c69c01665ada6c0246232a6a3bd92)
I figure I'll hang on to that ratty old thing - who knows, the Smithsonian might want it some day. *laughs*
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Frob_and_wayne.jpg&hash=5e0926dff8f2bd13f6d8341d78cd191b94f237b1)
This picture is pretty amusing. Wayne is all, "Hurr! This is SO cool!", while my friend Rob is all, "Hrmm. I do believe we CAN take over the world with this!" :D
Please note the pink foam screen analog. :D It's about the right size for a 19" display.
Here's a couple of shots with the screen installed:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fchecking_heights.jpg&hash=5eada17c82c905cddb0586b15769c1292fcfc370)
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F15may11%2Fscreen_mounted.jpg&hash=d0dec748562a775545f6b60b89aa09ce93138ec4)
I would have taken a wider angle shot, but I couldn't back up any further while it was in the location it was. Stupid thing is so big you have to back WAY off to get it all in one frame!
During the week I'll be applying sealer to the screen frame components and the screen mounts so they can be painted. With any luck we'll be able to get the foam inserts installed into the screen soon!
g.
Hehehehehhee. You're welcome. :)
We've almost reached the point where thinking about how close we are to the first draw-down of the mirror makes us start to twitch and drool a little bit. :)
g.
Update for the work done on Saturday, 21May11:
The screen support "spider" is completed and painted:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Fpainted-screens-support.jpg&hash=3a91c6c2f59211e2d0913c9ba36cdb0a81b4afc5)
The only remaining work that needs to be done is to have the projector mounts located & drilled.
We got the foam blocks cut for the screen. That stack of material used to be four 96" x 24" sheets. Wayne built a slick jig that allowed them to be bevel cut without getting your fingers too close to the saw blade.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Ffoam-blocks-for-screen.jpg&hash=b64fdff98b82104c6155057f6f2543fd2f532d51)
The blocks shown above were hot-wire cut in a special jig that used spare ribs from the screen in order to get the shape perfect.
Look carefully at this picture:
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Fheadcrab-attacks.jpg&hash=0dfdfb4f4ef166b8cfba5623b8717d03520215ef)
Can you understand why I'd want to whack it with a crowbar as I went by? :D
Each mirror segment and the backs are sealed with a 1/32" rubber gasket to minimize the amount of air leaks in the system.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Fback-panel-seal.jpg&hash=4972d4f35975a5b0f901f166f43355fb1e710a31)
Applying the framework back panels...
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Fattaching-the-back-panels.jpg&hash=c5a4d82f6c6308171e5abb220b666d6f8ba38f6e)
The colors for the frame will be yellow for the "ear" boxes and peripherial framework and blue for the back panels. Gotta keep with the whole Simpits/Link Trainer colors you know. :)
We also test-fit the new goggle-mask.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Fgoggle-mask-test-fit.jpg&hash=c7d6d5de82bbf2e7ac6e4ac69e10e1cf268e69f9)
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Fgoggle-mask-test-fit2.jpg&hash=8c7422770275bf7399898988769fc1df6c886f14)
It's quite likely that when the mask is attached "for real" to the framework, the mylar for the mirror will follow shortly behind. Right now we figure we're only one or two work days from performing the first draw-down of the mirror.
The screen was assembled and the first layer of filling compound was applied.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diy-cockpits.org%2Fcoll%2Fimages%2F21may11%2Fnew-screen-waits-for-sanding.jpg&hash=d9b7911445255b4709ae3e09514436ae9d237636)
Once the sand/fill cycle is done and the shape is correct, I've got some Behr screen paint we're going to try with it.
Thanks for reading!
g.
We didn't do any structural calculations; we simply observed the behavior of the prototype segment under vacuum, beefed it up where it flexed, and cut back where it appeared overdesigned. The general concept should work OK when upsized, but may need additional ribbing to prevent oilcanning of the back-side sheeting.
Our biggest obstacle to size is the availability of wider mylar at reasonable prices. You can go larger if you're willing to sacrifice on the horizontal FOV.
The mylar we're using cost us a whopping $30 for 50 feet of the 56" stuff, so we're not all that worried about a popped mirror aside from the hassle of refitting it. At $5k, I'd be a bit more concerned. Also, there are some design aspects of the larger installations that I'm not fully schooled on yet, such as the effect of shifting the eyepoints significantly sideways and forward for a wide dual-pilot cockpit.
Regarding the construction, there are several details of our build that fall into the "because we can" category. There aren't really any critical design features there that couldn't be built with careful use of 'normal' wood-shop tools. The shopbot is wonderful in that it lets us build parts almost as fast as we can conceive them and draw them up, and it lets us incorporate features such as indexing tabs that help to speed up assembly without having to jig everything up.
If you do decide to go this route, I'd be willing to supply the critical optical geometry (after we get both of our displays up and running).
Gene what is the specs for the mylar you used for this? Thickness, model, etc.
Thanks.