Before I invest in a new video card with 3 outputs, I want to know if what I am trying to do is even possible.
I would like to get rid of the TripleHead and use the 3 video card outputs instead of the TripleHead. But what I am wondering is how would I be able to warp the 3 video outputs separately? I currently have the Nthusim Multi-projector software but I don't think it will let me warp each side projector separately if I do not use the TripleHead.
Would I need 3 single-projector licenses instead and even then, can each projected image be warped individually. My gut feeling is that it will not work no matter what Nthusim version I use but I really have no idea.
My reason for wanting to do this is because I believe I would get slightly better frame rates since FSX could run at 1280x800 instead of 3840x800. I tried it in my current setup by changing the FSX resolution to 1280x800 and I did get an additional 3 fps with this lower resolution (and the 3 windows). The image was compressed of course to one third its size but the fps improved. So if I am able to warp the 3 projectors, I think changing the video card to one with 3 outputs might be a worthwhile option.
Anyway, I'm almost 100% sure this will not work but I am curious to know if anyone has ever tried this.
Thanks,
Maurice
I seem to remember that Sol7 only works with the primary output of graphics cards. I have no idea if this has changed or whether Nthusim is different.
Quote from: Sean Nixon on August 05, 2012, 11:36:59 AM
I seem to remember that Sol7 only works with the primary output of graphics cards. I have no idea if this has changed or whether Nthusim is different.
You are probably right Sean. The more I think about it, the more I think this is not possible. It would work with 3 flat screens and no warping since that would be the same as running 3 monitors instead of projectors but warping 3 separate projected views is not going to happen I think
I would love to be wrong though :)
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on August 05, 2012, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: Sean Nixon on August 05, 2012, 11:36:59 AM
I seem to remember that Sol7 only works with the primary output of graphics cards. I have no idea if this has changed or whether Nthusim is different.
You are probably right Sean. The more I think about it, the more I think this is not possible. It would work with 3 flat screens and no warping since that would be the same as running 3 monitors instead of projectors but warping 3 separate projected views is not going to happen I think
I would love to be wrong though :)
Maurice
How does this work using the Tripple Head?
If your inclined to play around a little, and assuming your existing graphics card has two outputs, why not try it with two projectors?
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 05, 2012, 01:42:33 PM
How does this work using the Tripple Head?
Not sure I understand your question Bob. How does what work?
Maurice
Quote from: Sean Nixon on August 05, 2012, 01:53:11 PM
If your inclined to play around a little, and assuming your existing graphics card has two outputs, why not try it with two projectors?
I actually just thought about that as well but I am hesitant to disturb anything that works if I don't have to because every single time I did that, I give myself a lot of grief in the process.
But curiosity killed the cat, so unless someone can categorically say it will not work, I may bite the bullet & try with 2 projectors. But first, I need to have a shred of hope that this might work and right now, I have none :)
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on August 05, 2012, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 05, 2012, 01:42:33 PM
How does this work using the Tripple Head?
Not sure I understand your question Bob. How does what work?
Maurice
How does the Nthusim or similar software work with the THG?
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 05, 2012, 03:00:48 PM
How does the Nthusim or similar software work with the THG?
Not exactly a simple question Bob but I'll try to explain :). Nthusim & THG are basically independent of each other. You could use Nthusim without THG with one projector & one curved screen or you can use it with 3 projectors,THG and one curved screen. Where the THG comes in is that it allows you to have a very wide resolution such as 3840x800 spread over 3 projectors each running at 1280x800 resolution. So basically, with just the THG, you get a very wide distorted image if you project it on a curved screen. Nthusim 'warps' this distorted image so that it looks OK on the curved screen.
When you add a THG, you can see the 3840x800 resolution as one option on the FSX display settings and that is the resolution that FSX will use.
I don't know if this makes sense to you but that is the best I can do to explain :)
Maurice
So you can not control each of the 3 projectors independently with the THG?
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 05, 2012, 05:03:44 PM
So you can not control each of the 3 projectors independently with the THG?
What do you mean by 'control'? The THG sees the projectors as simple monitors and does not control anything. I'm not sure what's on your mind so maybe I'm not getting the meaning of your question.
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on August 05, 2012, 05:53:13 PM
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 05, 2012, 05:03:44 PM
So you can not control each of the 3 projectors independently with the THG?
What do you mean by 'control'? The THG sees the projectors as simple monitors and does not control anything. I'm not sure what's on your mind so maybe I'm not getting the meaning of your question.
Maurice
Hmmmm Does the Blending software see all 3 projectos independently or does it see the projectors as one with the THG.
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 05, 2012, 06:18:22 PM
Hmmmm Does the Blending software see all 3 projectos independently or does it see the projectors as one with the THG.
It sees one projector with a resolution of 3840x800 as far as I understand how it works. That is why I doubt I could eliminate the THG
Maurice
If you get a card which allows you to treat multiple outputs as a single logical display, NThusim, Sol7 and Warpalizer should work just fine. The ATI Eyefinity and the newer NVidia cards do allow you to do this, so you shouldn't have any problems.
Considering warping software is also intended for multi channel systems with a separate monitor connected to each PC I would think this was certainly achievable. I thinks its only the 680 series nVidia GPU's that allow this however unlike ATI who's Eyefinity series has had this option for years. However why don't you just set the TH2GO resolution to match your projectors then set it to 1280x800 in FSX? Wouldn't this achieve the frame rate friendly same result?
Ken.
Maybe I am missing something here but all I have ever used is Nvidia and I have always been able to "stretch" across multiple monitors and the computer sees it as one, very wide monitor.
I have an ATI Radeon 6950 which can address up to six monitors at the same time. I use it with three monitors and the computer "sees" it as one monitor with an enormous resolution. This is using Eyefinity.
The nice thing about Eyefinity as against a TH2GO is that you can map out the monitor bezels. So when you bank left or right the images line up perfectly, no saw tooth effect.
Joe.
Quote from: wledzian on August 05, 2012, 08:54:29 PM
If you get a card which allows you to treat multiple outputs as a single logical display, NThusim, Sol7 and Warpalizer should work just fine. The ATI Eyefinity and the newer NVidia cards do allow you to do this, so you shouldn't have any problems.
Wayne,
This sounds promising but treating multiple outputs as a single logical display is exactly what the THG does now. So this would not allow me to run FSX at 1280x800. FSX would need to run at 3840x800 to match the resolution of the logical display. This eliminates the THG but does nothing for the frame rate since nothing has really changed except for the specs of the video card.
Thanks anyway Wayne. I may still get a new card with better specs than my current GPU and get rid of the THG as well since using 3 outputs would work.
Maurice
Quote from: Kennair on August 06, 2012, 12:12:20 AM
Considering warping software is also intended for multi channel systems with a separate monitor connected to each PC I would think this was certainly achievable. I thinks its only the 680 series nVidia GPU's that allow this however unlike ATI who's Eyefinity series has had this option for years. However why don't you just set the TH2GO resolution to match your projectors then set it to 1280x800 in FSX? Wouldn't this achieve the frame rate friendly same result?
Ken.
Ken,
Multi channel systems with separate PCs work because each pc has its own copy of the warping software . A single computer running one instance of the warping software is not the same.
And the THG is already set for 3 1280x800 projectors. If I change the FSX resolution to match that, then I end up with one third of the screen size. So unless I misunderstood what you meant, this is not possible
Thanks,
Maurice
Quote from: Bob Reed on August 06, 2012, 03:50:16 AM
Maybe I am missing something here but all I have ever used is Nvidia and I have always been able to "stretch" across multiple monitors and the computer sees it as one, very wide monitor.
Bob and Joe,
This is not what I need. The whole point is that I don't want a single output stretched over 3 monitors. Read my earlier answer to Wayne.
Thanks,
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
So, basically you want one card with 3 outputs (4 if you want to adjust things via a smaller monitor), and then use Nthusim or Warpalizer to make the corrections for your curved screen using the 3 outputs?
I believe this is the same thing as Nvidia Surround correction that comes with certain models of cards. Surround works like Nthusim and Warpalizer in certain ways. The question is, will it have to or can it even correct for FSX and use 3 windows or just one big full screen?
I watched youtube videos about this subject earlier this morning and from what I can see, in one full screen it distorts the outer edges and sides, as well as the true curve is not there like when using 4 windows (1 background and 3 across) like you're doing now. The next question would be, could you use the same 3 or 4 output card, and then use Nthusim to correct 3 window views. In other words, you're replacing the card over the TH2Go. From some of the youtube videos relating to this, it seems that this true, but I would send Andy from Nthusim an email to clarify...
Finally, if I am off the mark here, please explain further.
John
Hi John,
I may be losing my ability to communicate since nobody fully understands what I would like to do. So let me start again in a different way and hopefully my intent will be clearer this time.
Right now, as you said, I have one curved screen with 4 views on the same screen; one hidden backgound view running full screen and 3 undocked views positioned over the wide screen. The projectors are each running at 1280x800 each and THG creates a virtual desktop at a resolution of 3840x800. FSX needs to run at 3840x800 in order to see the 3840x800 image. If I change FSX to 1280x800, I see the 3 views compressed into one third the size of my screen.
So, Nthusim is warping an image of 3840x800 and all is well.
So now, let's say I originally had a 3 output video card but I had started with one projector only on one curved surface. I would be running FSX at 1280x800 (or other resolution) and Nthusim would be warping one smaller screen (one third the size of my current screen). No need for THG here.
But now, I decided to add 2 more projectors & 2 more curved screens not attached to the first screen (I know that does not make sense but just bear with me). So, in Windows 7, I can now see 2 additional monitors and I do not make them as part of one stretched virtual desktop. In other words, each monitor stands on its own like the way you would use them to position different applications on each separate monitor.
In FSX, I create a full screen background view and an undocked center view with a smaller zoom factor like what I have to do now. The full screen view is an FSX requirement as you know. Both of these views are still running on the center projector and center separate screen and the FSX resolution is 1280x800 (or other resolution)
I now create 2 additional external side views in FSX (with the proper zoom factor) and I drag them to the side projectors and the separate side screens. The resolution is still the same at 1280x800 (or whatever FSX was) but the side views are distorted since they are projected on a curved screen.
And here is the relevant question: Would there be any way to warp the side views so that they look ok on the separate curved screens? Nthusim is already warping the center screen so I would either need 2 more instances of Nthusim or some other way to do this. Currently Nthusim only warps the primary display only as far as I know and I don't think you can add 2 more copies to warp additional displays (I could be wrong of course and I should really be asking this question on the Nthusim forum ..Duhhhh!!! )
I hope this fully explains what I am trying to do because if it doesn't, then I am out of words to explain further :)
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
Okay, I understand and there are ways of doing this. As for Nthusim, I don't know because you're describing a Windows method over the TH2GO. There shouldn't be any difference for the output for Nthusim, but that is where they could answer the question.
With cards that have multi outputs you're using the Windows OS to setup the outputs and then using a warping program to adjust them indivdually. Here, look at this company for an example and their program called Anyblend:
http://www.vioso.com/ (http://www.vioso.com/)
Now, Anyblend is software based (even though Vioso does do things in a hardware based fashion as well), and it allows adjustments for curved screens after the alignments. All this is a Windows base using multihead output cards. So, that means you setup alignments, setup the displays in Windows, but not one big desktop display, and you Warp afterwards; thus, whatever you display will be corrected.
If Nthusim or Warpalizer does the same as this example from Vioso and Anydisplay, you're in business.
John
Well John, it did sound good until I read a bit more about it. If you look at the system requirements, you will see a THG is still needed:
"For a projector: any DirectX compatible graphics card For two projectors: any DirectX compatible dual-head graphics card (eg NVIDIA / ATI, Matrox DualHead2Go) For 3 projectors: any DirectX compatible graphics hardware solution with 3 outputs (eg several NVIDIA cards, ATI Radeon 6000 series, Matrox TripleHead2Go)"
So basically, I'm still out of luck and besides, the software is rather too pricey for my blood :)
Anyway, thanks for trying to find a solution.
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on August 06, 2012, 08:49:29 AM"For a projector: any DirectX compatible graphics card For two projectors: any DirectX compatible dual-head graphics card (eg NVIDIA / ATI, Matrox DualHead2Go) For 3 projectors: any DirectX compatible graphics hardware solution with 3 outputs (eg several NVIDIA cards, ATI Radeon 6000 series, Matrox TripleHead2Go)"
I've not been to the website, but I read this as either an Nvidia card with 3 outputs
OR an ATI card with 3 outputs
OR a TH2G. Remember, the TH2G only needs a card with 1 output.
Quote from: Sean Nixon on August 06, 2012, 08:54:54 AM
I've not been to the website, but I read this as either an Nvidia card with 3 outputs OR an ATI card with 3 outputs OR a TH2G. Remember, the TH2G only needs a card with 1 output.
You are 100% right. I somehow missed that part. Still leaves the hefty price though.
Thanks,
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
It's a TH2GO or a dual or triplehead card like Sean says. I looked at the manual for the software and works with all the choices. However, this is just an example to follow what you described. I also looked at some Warpalizer videos and it seems they're doing multi head cards in the manner describe, but not 100% sure. If you get to Nthusim site and send an email Andy, you will geta solid answer faster from him.
Additionally, is this possible with FlyElise? Anyone using it currently that could check? I have it, but not configured at the moment. In any case, be nice if we could get these software guys to update the programs (Warpalizer, Nthusim and FlyElise) to work with the newer multihead cards in this manner, if they don't already.
John
I just watched a Warpalizer setup video and setting that program up on the edge blending alignment seems extremely easy; I should've purchased that program! Anyway, over on Ivar Hestnes site it links to Warpalizer, and there it states dual or triple head video cards.
We need Ivar in on this and too help answer if it can do what you're asking. If it can, then by your method, there should be gains in this for sure; especially, with the new video cards that are out.
John
Maurice,
I think you could accomplish what your trying to do using FlyElise Immersive Desktop Lite. That is what I am using now. It allows you to have multiple displays and in addition allows you to define how many projectors per display. You can download the software. And test it in demo mode. Demo mode works fine but puts a watermark across the screen. it is also the least expensive package out there and IMHO has all the features of NThusim and then some. I own NThusim also but switched to Fly Elise exclusively now. I cannot speak to warpilizers features as I never tried it.
Scott
Quote from: XOrionFE on August 06, 2012, 03:29:52 PM
Maurice,
I think you could accomplish what your trying to do using FlyElise Immersive Desktop Lite. That is what I am using now.
Scott
This has been in my plans for a while now but I put if off while I was dealing with my hardware problems. So now would be a good time to experiment with FlyElise.
Thanks for the reminder :)
Maurice
Hate double forum posting but....exception since you started :D
I stopped off at NThusims office yesterday and Alex CONFIRMED
the GTX680 and NThusim WILL do you what your are proposing.
The cropped border fearture in NThusm will help you also.
As for performance and wether its better then the TH2Go is up to you
to trial :)
Nat
Quote from: melnato on August 09, 2012, 02:00:20 AM
Hate double forum posting but....exception since you started :D
I stopped off at NThusims office yesterday and Alex CONFIRMED
the GTX680 and NThusim WILL do you what your are proposing.
Nat
I hate double forum posting as well but the only reason I did it was because I was trying to find just one person who might have tried what I wanted to do. But it seems that nobody in these 2 forums has done it but unexpectedly of course, many people have been trying to help anyway. It really is like a big family without the family squabbles ;D
Anyway, as I responded in the FDS forum, I will now try with the 2 video outputs in my current video card. I did not want to mess with them until I had some hope it would work but now it seems that both Nthusim & FlyElise will do the trick so all engines forward :)
Mucho thanks,
Maurice
Well, I bravely tried to go where no simmer has gone before (to my knowledge at least) and here are the initial results of my little experiment. I was not able to test using a video card with 3 outputs but my current card has 2 outputs and I was able to test the proof of concept. So here are my results (your experimentation may vary of course)
1. My original thought that there would be a slight increase in fps was correct. The average increase was 2-3 fps
2. Instead of trying with 2 monitors like I did, all I really had to do was run my normal setup and just change the FSX resolution to 1280x800 instead of 3840x800. This results of course in one image 1/3 the size of the screen as expected, but the results are the same than what I found by removing the THG and testing with 2 monitors (with 3 views)
3. I was not able to warp the side view with Nthusim no matter what I tried. There may be a way but I don't know how, but I do believe that this would be feasible with FlyElise based on what I read in their manual (just speculation at this point).
4. The biggest known problem I had and for which I believe there is a solution is that I was not able to save the window positions after saving the situation. I'm sure I read somewhere how to do it but I can't recall where at this time.
5. Finally, I think I'm a total lunatic for messing with my current system just to gain an additional 2-3 fps. But although 2 or 3 fps may not sound like much, when taxiing at busy airports, it can make a big difference in the overall smoothness, especially when you are taxiing & turning. If you start with 15 and go to 17 or 18, it does make a big difference. In smaller airports though, 2-3 fps would make no difference at all since my frame rates are normally 22-25 at smaller airports.
So, the conclusion is very inconclusive for me so far. Do I spend big dollars for a video card with 3 outputs or do I call it a day and stop messing with my sim. Jack is probably right and I should stop this madness but mad men make mad decisions unfortunately. :)
A suivre (maybe)
Maurice
Maurice, I don't think you're going to be happy until you are running 3 of those machines NASA used to put that thing on Mars last week, in Wideview.
Hold on... did I just say Maurice happy? Now I need a straight jacket! :P
Just chiming in with some info :)
We have 2 simulators here in Stockholm that uses Warpalizer and Nvidia 590/690 video cards with projectors.
No need for TH2G anymore and frame rate gain is +10 with FS9/FSX.
Picture looks slightly better too - or we imagine so ;D
Bjorn
QuoteWe have 2 simulators here in Stockholm that uses Warpalizer and Nvidia 590/690 video cards with projectors
Oh Boy...here we go... :o
Bjorn...you just adopted Maurice ;D
Nat
I agree with Nat! Bjorn, can you post some pics and maybe a video of this, or even a link for info? If you can get 10fps more I would do it!
John
As they are not mine I have difficulties to do that, but will check more thoroughly a.s.a.p. with the two owners and see what more infos I can provide. The TH2G apparently steals a lot of valuable frames which are needed in a three projector setup, especially so with FSX.
Saving of the screen positions is solved too. How I am not sure of as I do not use Warpalizer (only one front screen in my own setup)
Warpalizer is "Made in Sweden", so we have close contacts with them, and they have helped hands-on with those two setups.
Mau can keep his name even as adopted ;D ;D ;D
Bjorn,
www.boeing737sim.se (http://www.boeing737sim.se)
Ayyayay!!! How can I ever be happy Sean? Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. I now know how Al Pacino must have felt in the Godfather movie :)
Bjorn, what are you doing to me? You can't just dangle an ice cream cone in front of kid and then take it away. I'm hoping your conscience will not let you rest until you provide more information about this. :)
Are you sure the simulators you are talking about are not just using separate FSX PCs with WideView? It seems to me that would be the only way to get 10+ frame rate increase. But boy, would I ever like to be wrong this time?
And Sean, you too will fall victim to chronic unhappiness with you sim some day. That is a terminal affliction unless you remove the offending member from your life, i.e. the flight deck. Trust me...that will happen to you too :)
Maurice
Quote from: maurice on August 10, 2012, 04:33:28 AMAnd Sean, you too will fall victim to chronic unhappiness with you sim some day. That is a terminal affliction unless you remove the offending member from your life, i.e. the flight deck. Trust me...that will happen to you too :)
Maurice
And I'm just getting to the exciting part...!
As you may know from my recent posts, I just got my screen material from the US and have built a
curved screen :-\
Other things I have acquired over the years are a TH2G and Sol7 (which entitles me to Nthusim, although I've not tried that yet). My original short throw projectors have been sold and are soon to be replaced with 3 x Mitsubishi's, same model as Scott and John are using.
At the moment I have an i7-2600k coupled with a lowly HD6850 card running FSX.
I'll be creating my visuals using the above kit, pretty much the same way as you have now, but I fully expect to have to upgrade (read: spend more), to get good results. Which way I go will likely be influenced by your progress, so I'm watching carefully.
What's the latest news with Wideview? Apart from the expense issue, are there any other drawbacks, or have they largely been addressed?
Sean
Hey Sean,
Will you post a seperate thread about your screen material and post some pics?
I am very happy you got yours now and I hope others will go this route like you and I have. I believe building a full size curved or flat screen from wood or other hard materials is no longer necessary. Before, the prices for the screens we have were way too high, but those prices have come down, so anyone who is just now building theirs will have a simple and cheap method to do so. You might think wood or other hard materials are cheaper, but in the long run there is the building time itself, as well as the typical problems with the associated with those materials, like the seams for example.
Who was it that just posted about the earthquake in Australia where their screen or it's seams got cracked? Yes, that is a remote incident, but what about other related issues? Anyway, the point is these screens that Sean and I have are amazing; thus, the idea behind sharing these thoughts with others...
John
Quote from: blueskydriver on August 10, 2012, 09:20:34 AM
Hey Sean,
Will you post a seperate thread about your screen material and post some pics?
I will indeed. I did add a quick note to the end of the existing thread, you may not have seen it...
Quote from: Sean Nixon on August 05, 2012, 06:48:50 AM
Well, I recieved my screen from Carl yesterday and I hung it today.
One of the best things I've bought for the sim. It looks awesome just hanging there! I can't wait to get an image onto it (note to self: Get projectors ordered).
Thanks to John (BSD) for recommending Carl's Place http://www.carlofet.com/ (http://www.carlofet.com/)
For those who want a curved screen, this is definately the way to go. No messing around with oversized sheet materials, and no joins whatsoever. That it's made with actual projector screen material is the icing on the cake!
All I need to do is mount the vertical end supports, but I've ran out of pipe saddles. I'll post a pic when it's finished.
Sean
I'm still waiting to finish it, but it looks great as it is.
Watch this space!
Sean
Sean,
Thanks for pointing out that last post in the other thread... We can start a thread called "Simple Projection Screen Fabric Material for Curved and Flat Screens" that way this thread that we're are in can continue on with it's listed topic. I will start the new thread now.
John
Hi fellows,
I will try to pass on our experiences her with Nvidia 590/690 cards.
I myself does not use them as my simroom is too small to permit a three projector setup.
I hope the following will shed some light for those of you, Mau and others that are looking for the "FS Holy Grail" :D :D
Findings with the Nvidia 590 and 690 graphics cards.
We have 2 B737 sims here in Stockholm that uses a three screen setup with Warpalizer one with a Nvidia 590 and the other with a 690 card.
The frame rates are very satisfactory, what we all strive for is a fully fluent sim in all conditions and with most or all FS settings on MAX.
With FS9 we do now have a perfect thee projector sim with Nvidia 590/690 series graphics.
Since the cards have three accelerated output connectors MatroxTH2G is not needed anymore for a thee projector setup.
You do as before, make one screen ( 00 ) of the zoomed out FS Earth globe and put it behind the visible ones.
Then three visible FS screens ( 01 ), ( 02 ) and ( 03 ).
What is VERY important is that you use the correct output to the screens.
Left card output - Left projector, Center output to center projector and Right card output to Right Projector.
Failure to do so will result in FS9/FSX not being able to save your screen positions.
Performance and FS Computer
It seems to us that those Nvidia cards need a very fast processor - Intel Sandy Bridge Intel Core i7-2700K 3,5GHz / 8MB / Socket 1155/ is the optimal choice.
A Sandy Bridge 2600 "K" processor (predecessor) will of course do too as it also can be overclocked without problems.
The processor needs to be overclocked to at least 4.5 Ghz. This can easily be done without problems with a good cooler.
Fast memory and WIN7 as OP (8 GB is optimal) in the FS computer is essential with the 590/690 cards.
Likewise SSD disks or WD 10000 rpm VelociRaptors for both OP system and FS.
The power drain with this system make it needing a good stable 1000W PSU from a quality manufacturer.
Please also understand that the average PC salesman or "expert" does not know what is required for an FS9/FSX based 3 projector sim and might lead you down the wrong alley.
If you try to save some $ and use less good FS PC components you will not get optimal results.
With the right gear as above we do have 50+ fps in FS9 even at dense add-on scenery and in bad weather.
Also when taxi fast in dense scenery (EGLL Heathrow for example) and making sharp turns the screens will not "jitter".
It does not matter if you use the Nvidia 590 or 690 - results are the same.
Especially when entering clouds you will see a big difference with the cards - the FR drop is a significantly smaller.
As soon as I get the "gain numbers" between the setups with and w/o TH2G confirmed by the sim #2 owner I will post them.
He has switched back and forth between FSX and FS9, so I am not quiet sure weather he runs FSX or FS9 at this moment, but will post a.s.a.p. whatever findings he can contribute with.
Best from Stockholm,
Bjorn
www.boeing737sim.se (http://www.boeing737sim.se)
Thank you very much Bjorn. The specs on my FSX pc are at least as good as the ones you mentioned so I am anxiously waiting to hear performance impressions when running FSX since I will never go back to fs9?
So I hope sim #2 owner is using FSX as this will be the deciding factor if he is also able to get a very fluent sim with FSX and without THG (FSX Holy Grail as you said :)
Thanks again,
Maurice
Hi guys,
Now I have got details about the "FR gain" with FSX after a Nvidia 690 install.
It seems the gain is at least in the 5-8 FPS range, however the new GPU shader reduced the frame drop in clouds notably.
Also difficult to measure the exact figure when you change graphics cards as the settings will be different.
With a heavy scenery like Aerosoft ESSA (Stockholm-Arlanda) no problems to have the majority of sliders in full and still get some 40-50 fps. This with 3 projectors connected + Warpalizer and without the TH2Go.
In any case with the Nvidia 690 setup it will give a fluent visual FSX scenery with no jitters.
But as stated before - you will need matching top components like mobo, memory, power and hard drives.
Also an overclocked CPU to at least 4.5 Ghz (which is very easy to achieve with Sandy Bridge K-series).
Bjorn
Quote from: saabpilot on August 21, 2012, 01:47:45 AM
Hi guys,
Now I have got details about the "FR gain" with FSX after a Nvidia 690 install.
It seems the gain is at least in the 5-8 FPS range, however the new GPU shader reduced the frame drop in clouds notably.
Bjorn
This is great news & bad news at the same time. I was still planning to find a GTX 680 but now that I've read this, I don't want to take a chance and I will very likely get the much more expensive 690 since I may as well go all out and get the best.
Thanks very much for looking into this. I did not want to spend all that money without at least getting one opinion from someone who already tried it. And don't worry, I won't go after you if my results are not as good; I was likely going to take the chance anyway so nothing lost except some of my daughter's inheritance when I jump off a bridge ;D
Maurice
OK, I bit the bullet, swallowed hard, said nice things to my wife :) and ordered a GTX 690 today. I really do not expect to get more than 2 or 3 fps increase by turfing the TripleHead but getting higher fps never was my prime motivation anyway.
My main hope is that I will be able to get rid of these occasional annoying white flashes and hopefully get better overall fluidity. If I get that, I will be very happy.
I will report my findings once I get the card and figure out how to line up all the views again without the TripleHead.
Maurice
Hi Bjorn,
Thanks again for your report about the GTX 690. As I mentioned in my earlier reply, I just ordered a GTX 690 but I came across a comment from Jetline system website that worries me a bit.
"Warning
The Nvidia GeForce GTX 690 and other dual GPU graphics cards
to be a significant performance decrease to FSX. This is due to
their integrated dual GPU design. Jetline is not offering these
models due to low FSX test results."
This came from this page:
http://jetlinesystems.com/performance.php (http://jetlinesystems.com/performance.php)
This goes against what you said but your statement is based on experience so I believe that more than what I read. But I now wonder if I would not have been better off with a 590 instead which has only one GPU as far as I know.
Can you confirm that the results you mentioned were taken with a 690 instead of a 590? I can return the 690 and find a 590 if there is any doubt about the 690s performance.
Thanks again,
Maurice
Mau...wishI had the answer for you on the 690...BUT do not take peoples opinions/ideas/random thoughts for Gospel....too many experts flying around :-\
Nat
(Ill probably be shot down, but Ive learnt to only speak when I have something factual to say)
Quote from: melnato on August 23, 2012, 02:53:38 PM
Mau...wishI had the answer for you on the 690...BUT do not take peoples opinions/ideas/random thoughts for Gospel....too many experts flying around :-\
You are 100% right but this wasn't random dribble. It came from a company that sells pre-configured custom FSX systems so they should know better, in theory at least. Why would they not use a 690 unless what they said has an element of truth?
Maurice
QuoteWhy would they not use a 690 unless what they said has an element of truth?
Exactly what I meant :)
I believe JetLine would've tested the card before making that statement...
Nat
Quote from: melnato on August 23, 2012, 04:58:44 PM
QuoteWhy would they not use a 690 unless what they said has an element of truth?
Exactly what I meant :)
I believe JetLine would've tested the card before making that statement...
Nat
I'm in the early stage of agreeing with Jetline. So far, not very happy with the 690 but there is still a glimmer of hope since I have not yet tried to use it with 3 separate views as opposed to one wide view. But things are not looking very good right now (I will start a new topic about the testing part)
Maurice
Quote from: saabpilot on August 11, 2012, 02:50:09 AM
What is VERY important is that you use the correct output to the screens.
Left card output - Left projector, Center output to center projector and Right card output to Right Projector.
Failure to do so will result in FS9/FSX not being able to save your screen positions.
Best from Stockholm,
Bjorn
www.boeing737sim.se (http://www.boeing737sim.se)
Hi Bjorn,
Can you please explain what left card output, center output or right card output means? Are you referring to the actual physical location of the output sockets on the card? In my case, I have 2 DVI plugs side by side and a display port to the right of the sockets. Underneath that, there is one more DVI socket.
It seems like the only way I can run 3 separate monitors and still be able to use 2 GPU processors is to use the display port and 2 other DVI sockets. If I try to use the 3 DVI sockets, I get a message that it can only use one GPU.
So, back to my question. When you say left card output, which one would be the left card output. I am asking because I am unable to save the screen positions and size. I only see 2 small side views, one to the right and one to the left. They are the correct views, but I need to resize them every time.
I have several other issues at this time, but I can't deal with those until I am able to have all the views at their right size. Anyway, if you could help me out here, I would really appreciate that.
Thank you,
Maurice
Hi Mau,
Sorry to hear that you have issues with the 690.
Since I do not use the cards myself I will ask my 2 friends to take a photo and point out the port order.
It might take a day or two.
Best,
Bjorn
Quote from: saabpilot on September 05, 2012, 02:47:24 AM
Hi Mau,
Sorry to hear that you have issues with the 690.
Since I do not use the cards myself I will ask my 2 friends to take a photo and point out the port order.
It might take a day or two.
Best,
Bjorn
Thanks Bjorn. That would help a lot. Also, can you ask them if they are using the display port with 2 DVI ports instead of the 3 DVI ports?
Thanks,
Maurice
Hi again Mau,
Attach the thee DVI ports, start the PC, run the display config app in Win7, if you see that left FS picture appears on right - switch left/right cables. When they are in correct order, that is left screen left, center screen center and right screen right FSX should be able to save the screen positions.
None of the two simmers use the Display Port.
Bjorn
Hi Bjorn,
Well I am slightly ahead but no joy yet on several fronts. I did as you asked and now the 3 windows keep their size but not their positions. They all come out in the center screen on top of each other. I can move them back to their respective side but they do not stay that way when I restart FSX.
It looks like both GPUs are active but the Nvidia control panel says that Multi GPU is disabled. With the MSI afterburner I can see that both GPUs are active and barely utilized. Same for memory but I don't know why the control panel says disabled. But this the least of my problems :)
Beside the windows locations not being saved, when I move them to their respective sides, the images do not butt each other. There is a big gap in between the windows as if there was a bezel. That may be an Nvidia adjustment but I have not found it yet.
And one last thing, the frame rate seems worse than with my TripleHead so that is not too encouraging. Unless I can see at least the same fps, the other problems will not matter as I will just go back to an extended desktop.
Anyway, thank you very much for your input. At least I know the projectors are connected in the right place. If your buddies have any other suggestions, please let me know. I must be doing something wrong here somewhere so I'll keep plugging at it in the meantime.
Thanks again,
Maurice
Maurice,
Try uninstalling anything to do with TH2GO...the power matrox and whatever other software it uses.
John
Mau you couldve bought another PC with that GTX money and then you would only
need one more to go WideView ;D
Sorry...luv ya...
Nat
Quote from: melnato on September 06, 2012, 03:23:20 AM
Mau you couldve bought another PC with that GTX money and then you would only
need one more to go WideView ;D
Sorry...luv ya...
Nat
Luv ya too Nat. I could have bought myself something much more useful actually...a shotgun and use my sim for target practice. That would have given me so much more satisfaction ;D . Come to think of it, there is still some money left in my bank. Hmmm.....
Maurice
Quote from: blueskydriver on September 05, 2012, 01:38:23 PM
Maurice,
Try uninstalling anything to do with TH2GO...the power matrox and whatever other software it uses.
John
Been there, done that :) . What I find so frustrating about this is that it means that if I had 3 LCD screens instead of projectors, I would not even be able to use them since I can't figure out how to display 3 views so that they stay where they should be. I must be doing something fundamentally wrong here and it's killing me that I can't figure it out. That has nothing to do with this particular GTX 690 (I think) and I would have the same problems with any other card(s) with 3 outputs.
I know I can always go back to using the 690 with a wide view in the same way as the TripleHead, but that was not what I intended to do with the 690.I thought I was a reasonably intelligent sim builder but either I was wrong or I am losing my marbles or both :)
Maurice
Hi again,
One of my friends who has the 490 card called,
He says you do have to have the left screen as primary (= with the WIN7 taskbar) otherwise it will not save screen positions.
Also on the 690 one of the outputs is a DVI-I port, 2 are DVI-D and one is a Display Port.
He believes that the guy with the 690 uses the 2 DVI-D ports + the Display Port with a DP-DVI adapter, I will call him later tonight to verify this, but it should also be obvious how if you read the manual.
(The 490 has different outputs vs the 590)
Bjorn
Hi Bjorn,
I know I must be doing something fundamentally wrong since you know someone using it with no problems. There was no manual by the way except for a very short quick installation guide but I did get a very nice black T-Shirt in the box with the EVGA logo :)
I did try the 2 DVI-D outputs with the DP port earlier but I'm not sure which screen I used as the Primary display so I'll try that again. There has to be something simple that I am overlooking ( I hope)
Maurice
Well I've pretty much given up for now anyway. If I use the GTX 690 as a direct replacement for the THG, i.e. expanded screen at 3840x800, it works OK but no better than the THG.
But if I try to use it as 3 separate outputs, I have not been able to get it to remember the window sizes. It remembers their position but even if I enlarge the side views manually and restart, it goes back to small side views as you can see in attached pictures.
In addition to that, when I maximize FSX, the windows do not butt each other but they do butt each other when I connect to the FSX PC via TeamViewer. It looks like it needs a bezel adjustment but that is not available when you use the card as 3 separate outputs. The bezel adjustment is only available in the wide view mode.
I'm totally baffled and if I wanted to replace my projectors with monitors instead, I wouldn't even be able to do that. Does not make sense but I've spent too many hours on this already and I need a break
Here are a few pics of what I am talking about. Obviously I did not even bother with warping correction at this stage
Maurice
Mau,
What I can see immediately is that you use the wrong views.
You have to use FWD LEFT + FRONT + FWD RIGHT and not FWD + LEFT + RIGHT as in your pictures.
The latter views can not be joined together.
Since I use FS9 I am not 100% sure how the screens are in FSX, but it seems likely to me that also FSX has Front LEFT and Front Right views.
Re. the bezel adjustments I only knew Warpalizer which is used here and Warpalizer can do this, it is a software feature, so check your warping program manual how to do it.
Bjorn
Quote from: saabpilot on September 09, 2012, 02:38:44 AM
Mau,
What I can see immediately is that you use the wrong views.
You have to use FWD LEFT + FRONT + FWD RIGHT and not FWD + LEFT + RIGHT as in your pictures.
Bjorn
Hi Bjorn,
About the views you see, these were from my last try. Previously, I did have the same views you mentioned .FWD LEFT + FRONT + FWD RIGHT with exactly the same results. In fact, I only tried the latest views out of sheer desperation because nothing was working for me :)
But I do know I must be doing something else wrong somewhere. I must be. I will try again once I get over the disgust I feel for not being able to figure this out. I do own the Warpalizer software as well so if I get the windows to resize properly I can try Warpalizer to see if it gets rid of the space between the views. At this time though, I do not understand why Warpalizer would be able to do something that FlyElise can't do but there are many, many things I do not understand :)
However, I am also not dismissing the possibility that my 690 is defective. I say that because on previous tries, after enlarging the views manually, I saw very bad tearing of the side views only once the plane was moving (see enclosed pictures). That was without any warping adjustments but I never see that with the wide view even without warping, so only happens with separate views. I find that very bothersome but I did load their latest beta drivers after talking to EVGA support, so we'll see if that helps.
Anyway, Angus and 2 of his buddies are coming to fly my sim this week on a real training session, so I don't want to mess with it anymore at this time. In the mean time, I need to get the latest version of Warpalizer and their latest manual so that I'll be ready when I try again.
Thanks for your support again Bjorn. I would really appreciate any other ideas/suggestions you or your buddies might have.
Cheers,
Maurice
One more question Bjorn. Were you able to confirm for sure whether the Display port is used or not? First you said "None of the two simmers use the Display Port" but then you said this
" Also on the 690 one of the outputs is a DVI-I port, 2 are DVI-D and one is a Display Port. He believes that the guy with the 690 uses the 2 DVI-D ports + the Display Port with a DP-DVI adapter, I will call him later tonight to verify this"
So, which one is right? I tried both ways anyway and I had the same results but I would like to know which configuration worked for sure for your friends.
Thanks,
Maurice
Hi Mau,
The man with the 690 is a bit hard to reach due to his work, but I will try and forward your question a.s.a.p.
Bjorn
Quote from: saabpilot on September 10, 2012, 12:28:39 AM
Hi Mau,
The man with the 690 is a bit hard to reach due to his work, but I will try and forward your question a.s.a.p.
Bjorn
No rush Bjorn. I will not be trying again until early October anyway. But when you ask him, can you also ask him to specify the resolution he is using in FSX. I want to be sure I understand his setup correctly. With a wide expanded view, I use 3840x800 but with separate displays, I was expecting to set the FSX resolution to 1280x800. In other words, when he looks at the display properties, does he see 3 separate displays or one wide display only?
Thanks again,
Maurice
Hi Bjorn,
Please check your PM.
Thanks,
Maurice