Hey Everyone,
This thread is about projection screen materials that Sean Nixon and myself are using. We will post pics and links, so that you can see some really nice setups that are done at low cost. Please keep this about buying and using projection screen material because this is not about the arguement or debate of using a projection screen over wood, mdf, plastic or other hard materials.
Instead this is just to show that prices of projection screens have come down and if others can find places that are inexpensive, please post links. Additionally, we hope to see more designs through this method, and who knows, maybe the day will come where a curved or flat screen for flight sims can be purchased as a complete kit. In other words, you give the dimensions of the room and you get the screen, the framing and all hardware to put it up in one box...
John
My build was stalling as I knew I had to get the screen built and the projectors set up before I could realistically continue with the shell and all that goes in it (i.e. 99% of the sim)!
I was stalling as I was unsure of the best way to construct a 'near perfect' curved screen, 7ft high and 30ft in length.
Then I stumbled across an old thread by John, singing the praises of his new curved projector screen. After a few exchanges with John, I was convinced. This had to be the way forward. The price made it a no-brainer. If it didn't work, financially, it wasn't the end of the world.
So I checked my dimensions and ordered a 30ft x 7ft screen from www.carlofet.com (http://www.carlofet.com)
Within a week, it was with me in the UK. Great service from Carl and his team.
I've got it hanging and it looks fantastic. I need to finish off the ends to pull the screen tight, but I ran out of conduit saddles. I hope to finish it this weekend, then I'll post some pics.
But believe me (and John), at this point in time, I can see no better way to construct a curved projector screen. It is...
i. cost effective
ii. easy to build
iii. quick to build
iv. excellent quality
v. excellent performance (i have yet to confirm this, but have no doubts whatsoever)
I will post some pics very soon.
Sean
Just a quick note. I deleted the word "fabric" since it might cause confusion because that word might make you think fabric, like cloth or bed sheets, and that is not what this material is. It's actual projection screen material...
John
That sounds awesome and glad it will work well. I'm very much myself looking at a curved screen and reading your comments i think also it is the way ahead.
Can you tell me what projectors are you using and how many.
Currently looking at up grading computer ti eyeinfinity which i believe is the way ahead.
Love to hear your comments.
Richard
Sean mentioned the original post of mine, so too save you time, here is the link to it:
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=2221.0 (http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=2221.0)
In that very first post, you will see a link to a different sim site, use it to get more details. If you want, you can skip to it here:
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/projector-solutions/21691-curved-screen-2.html#post125634 (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/projector-solutions/21691-curved-screen-2.html#post125634)
John
Finished my screen today, I have to say, installing this thing was a cinch!
Richard, most of us are using/plan to use 3 projectors to give an average of 210 degrees field of view.
Without knowing your particular plans, you'll need ultra short throw PJ's. Look for a throw ratio around 0.5:1. The Mitsubishi EW230U-ST is a popular choice. I've just discovered the Viewsonic PJD7583W, which also has decent specs and is on my shortlist.
Don't get fooled into thinking HD projectors are the way forward. They may have better resolutions, but I've yet to see an ultra short throw model.
Not sure about eyefinity, not used it. I have the Matrox TH2G (Triple Head 2 Go). I'll be using this initially, because I already have one, but I gather the very latest video cards support acceleration on all of their outputs (as opposed to the primary output), and that may be a better way forward. Check out the recent threads here on CB, it's an issue we're all looking at carefully.
Make sure to contribute with your own experiments and findings, good and bad. It all helps the overall knowledge base, as no two builders are doing the same thing!
Welcome to the forums.
Sean
John and/or Sean,
May I be struck by lightning if I ever as much as entertain the thought of re-doing my curved screen but I'm curious to know how you handled the screen curvature. I imagine you had to build some kind of frame to hold the PVC piping so if you have details and pictures, that would be useful for anyone going that route (and it will not be me unless maybe I get struck by lightning and do not drop dead :)
Thanks,
Maurice
Dont know why but Im tempted too Mau :o
Can someone confirm there are NO waves or distorted areas in screen?
Im struggling to believe that PVC tube can withstand that much tension.
Strike me down too but I might just try it for fun too :)
Nat
EDIT...OK i saw some pics of Johns screen and I can see the PVC tubing is attached to a stronger frame behind...
Does it come prepainted with black border?
Thinking of making a slightly bigger screen.... I like :)
Nat
Quote from: melnato on August 12, 2012, 05:20:22 AM
Dont know why but Im tempted too Mau :o
Nat
I hate this forum; nothing but grief comes as a result of reading better ideas about something you have already completed :'( ;D
Maurice
I can knock up a few details and sketches of how I did it, from scratch, but those of you who already have a 'hard' curved screen already have the support structure for the screen framework.
For me, fixing the pvc tubing was really easy, hanging the screen from it, even easier.
Nat, the screen comes with a black border that have the fixing holes fitted into it. See the pic below. I also painted my timber support structure black, along with the walls, ceiling and floor. I used black PVC conduit and black fittings to keep everything the same.
I will also post some more pics with the sketches.
(https://www.carlofet.com/images/edges.jpg)
Quote from: melnato on August 12, 2012, 05:20:22 AMCan someone confirm there are NO waves or distorted areas in screen?
The screen is as perfect as the curve you mount it from. There are no waves in it whatsoever. Mine still has a couple of folds from shipping that have yet to fall out completely, but they are barely visible and I expect them to naturally fall out. If not, the screen can also be ironed (from the back).
Sean
Thank you very much for the info Sean.
I guess when ordered, its really important to ge the height of the screen right to match
your projected image with the white surface...should be easy with projectors already installed.
When i experimented with a similar system a few years back, I had a convex bulge in the middle
of the screen, ie opposite of a dome type screen...Does this happen with Carls system?
Its the deal breaker/ winner feature for me :)
Nat
Quote from: melnato on August 13, 2012, 01:57:17 AMI guess when ordered, its really important to ge the height of the screen right to match
your projected image with the white surface...should be easy with projectors already installed.
Well, I guess the white portion should be at least the size of your projected image. I don't know what this is this yet, so I've oversized my screen, making it as large as would fit into my available space. Any unused white areas will hopefully be out of my immediate view, and if it wasn't unused white screen that was there, it'd have been something else.
Quote from: melnato on August 13, 2012, 01:57:17 AMWhen i experimented with a similar system a few years back, I had a convex bulge in the middle
of the screen, ie opposite of a dome type screen...Does this happen with Carls system?
I see what you mean. I don't know how severe your bulge was :o but here's a pic of mine :o :o which might help you determine if it's the same.
Sean
Just some quick notes:
You want the screen to be tight, so you have to make sure the PVC tubing is adjusted to make the bungees stretch. That is why I cut them to fit or adjusted to fit at the end. You can get the rough size, but plan to adjust fir sure.
You will not get a bulge and any fold lines will come out. Mine has no lines and is perfect.
If you already have your current curve wall, you just attach the PVC mount brackets to it and then the PVC tubing. The PVC tubing will not bend if you use PVC mount brackets about every 6-8 inches; it is alot of PVC mount brackets, but that's what keeps the screen tight, along with the bungees.
Plan for bungees every 6 inches. Carl sells them for every 12 inches, but request for every 6, as that is the key to no lines in the screen.
Note: the PVC mount brackets are actually EMT electrical metal conduit brackets, but they're just fine for PVC and easy to drill a hole to mount them. I think I posted where I got them in that older post; please see links above.
Finally, call Carl! Tell him everything you're planning, he will help you all the way.
John
Thanks John and Sean,
I can see a slight bulge, not as bad as I had in my V1 screen.
Im sure any correction software will fix that, its just the focus that worries
me. Its a battle as it is with a simple curved screen...
I think 6" spacing must be the way to go at a minimum.
Anyone wanna help me push my sim 2ft to the left? :)
Nat
Quote from: melnato on August 13, 2012, 02:26:45 PM
Thanks John and Sean,
Your picture certainly confirms no bulge! 6" spacing must be on the money.
Anyone wanna help me push my sim 2ft to the left? :)
Nat
Not me. I came to my senses and decided that my current screen is good enough as is. Enough is enough. :)
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
That is what I said about my screen two times before. First, the white plastic panels were not good enough, and then second, the mdf panels painted white were no better. It was always the seams that deterred me to like it and encouraged me to go with the current projector screen.
You might have no issues with your current screen and you should not change if you don't. However, if you do develop issues with the seams or other areas later on, I suggest you consider this projector screen.
Finally, the one thing that you said a long time back was the "screen door" effect you see. I saw that too, but after switching to the projection screen it was reduced a good deal; it didn't disappear totally, but it look's a whole lot better.
Certainly, for anyone building their screen for the first time, I strongly recommend this projector screen method. There is no nailing, screwing (big sheets of wood or whatever), glueing, mudding/tapping, sanding, painting, or any wasted time. You can put this whole thing up, from start to finish, in one day.
I do want to add that anyone who gets this screen, you should handle it with care and use latex or vinyl gloves to prevent getting any marks on it. Like any screen of this type, you have to handle with "great" care...
John
All I can add John is that everyone who has seen my visuals thought they were amazing, so who am I to argue? :) I used 1/4" flexible drywall and screen paint. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but neither is anything else in my sim so I'd rather be flying than forever messing with it (when I'm not fighting hardware issues that is :)
Maurice
The important thing to remember Maurice, if you do decide to upgrade, the hard work is already done. Since you have a sound base to hang a custom screen from, fixing the pipe work and screen is not a big job.
As far as my bulge goes, perhaps I need to pull the screen a little tighter? I still have 4" of space in which I could do that, but I felt the bungees are tight enough as it is. I've ordered my projectors and will see what it's like before I start messing.
Sean
Quote from: Sean Nixon on August 13, 2012, 10:59:16 PM
The important thing to remember Maurice, ....
Sean
is that I don't have to do anything since it is already done ;D
Maurice
Quote from: Mary on August 14, 2012, 02:24:30 PM
what about 5 or 6 projectors would this take care of crabbing? now add motion to things but how would you dampen the projectors
Huh??? Pretty sure this is not related to the current topic, so could you start another thread about it? Crabbing & damping deserve their own space :)
Maurice
In another thread recently, someone mentioned the three screen approach, with a center straight and two outside (left and right) at 45 degrees, and they spoke about the seams between the two. Also, Maurice spoke of going that method a while back. My question is, could the same screen material that Sean and I have be used in that three screen design?
In other words, just make the same framing from PVC, but make it square with the 45 degree bends for the outsides. However, do you think it might bow out at the angle points? I don't think it would, but it would be interesting to see someone try this. The reason being, it's a nice screen, it's quick and easy to install, and there will be no seams...
What do you all think about this?
John
Sounds interesting to me
Scott
Hi Sean .. only just seen this thread, thanks for posting the info.. very interesting!
Just wondering if you know ... can this material can be used for back projection as well?
thanks
Hi Nic,
Nope, this material is for front projection only. If you can go this way, you will not regret getting this screen. I've had mine and Sean got his, and we both will tell you that this is better then painting for sure. For me, I tried white panel sheets and white paint, but both have nothing on this screen.
Additionally, the time spent building a curved screen from wood or whatever board type material could be better spent on something else. All you have to do is build a curve from PVC tubing, attach the screen material from Carl's Place and you're done!
John
John,
How did you build the curved PVC frame. Do you have pictures of that?
Scott
Hey Scott,
Here is the link with the post that shows how I did it:
http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=2221.0 (http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=2221.0)
The PVC tubing is attached to what used to be the curved panel screens, you can see it in behind the PVC tubing.
I used the EMT metal type holders for the PVC tubing (seen in the photos). Mine might be overdone of course, but as long as you can attach the PVC tubing and make the curve, you'll be good to go.
Sean did it without a previous panel screen behind his; he just put up wood 2x4's (I think it was) for the structure behind the PVC. In any case, I think the curve should be easy or easier to make, and then just attach the screen.
I know this much, I am 100% happy with the screen and to do it over again, I would've chose the screen material for sure... I highly recommend doing this...
John
Thanks John. Yeah, hey, I'm sold on this already :) If we go front projection again this is what we'll do. Back projection is just a maybe at this stage.
Last time we used 3 walls and used the magic projection paint mix etc etc.. and didn't get the benefits it was supposed to bring. It's funny now how the whole industry seems to be going away from grey/silver/bead paint surfaces and back to whites and even blacks for screens. Mind you, with 3000+ lumens things are easier these days.
edit: one more question.. we're probably not going curved but using 5 flat panel screens at angles around the simpit - but with continuous screen material (no joins). Do you see any issue at the corners with the stretch and bungee cord attach method?
Believe it or not, I actually have 3 full size back projection screens for another project and looking at those screens, which are grey, I would still prefer front projection and white.
You're exactly right about white screens with the use of higher output projectors. I imagine they'll only get brighter in the future... A while back I remember Maurice and I talking about the screen door effect we saw, but after updating to this white screen the screen door effect was less noticeable. It's still there, but no where what it was. I wonder how that will be with much brighter projectors? Anyway, I am very happy I went this way...
Finally, I think this screen could work in a 3 flat screen mode; however, I think you would have to make sure the bends were no more then 45 degrees. As long as you have the framing right I cannot see how there would be any issues. Although, don't hold me to that, as we all know that there is a lot of experimentation that needs to be done yet, so you would be front runner if you do this.
Have you contacted Carl yet? I would say too you or anyone else that you should call or email him and explain your plan. He will give you good advice for sure, but be patient because even though he makes the screens pretty quick, he will spend more time discussing it with you too make sure it is right the first time, before you get it.
Oh yeah, Sean and I did mention the great pricing right?
John
Thanks again John, appreciate the advice. Totally understand there's no gaurantees with this.. we all add in our bits of experience then it's each builder for themselves. That's what makes this online community so useful.
The inner angle screen to screen is 135 degrees - which is square + 45 so should be ok (5 screens total).
I shot Carl an email today to start the conversation..
Bringing up this thread since questions are arising about it and that I purchased a second screen, last week, of 9x16' for less than $200. It's going to be used as a green screen... I highly recommend screens from Carl's Place. If you order from him, mention Sean or myself to Carl and it'll get him in the frame of mind of flight simulation, which will help him understand what you're trying to do.
John
Hey guys, just to gives you a heads up, I am selling my 6.5' x 22.5' screen that I had purchased from Carl's Place. It includes all bungees and it's in mind condition. I listed in the Classifieds Section, in case you are interested. With this screen, you can setup a 225 degree view with a radius of 5.5'.
Efrain sent you PM.