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Main => Builders Discussions => Topic started by: jackpilot on November 04, 2009, 06:21:33 AM

Title: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on November 04, 2009, 06:21:33 AM
Just to wet your appetite, this is the main axle for the 4 levers...
I am starting the assembly, based on the 787 throttle.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc29%2Fjackpilot%2FPhotoNIKON.jpg&hash=fa578238f0ee8c5e89940086889147e8e9340fa3)

this is a "paste up" of the 787 throttle in my 737.

(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc29%2Fjackpilot%2Fthrottle-1.jpg&hash=b7d84ba0c2e72f15cef637b794da14a6e71100d8)
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Trevor Hale on November 04, 2009, 08:00:52 AM
Woot..  Looks nice..  *DROOL*

Ehem..  though shouldn't you be working on a shell and liners to show us before a throttle quad??  LOL   :idiot:
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on November 04, 2009, 09:01:24 AM
I know...matter of logistics.
The MGB has to go first.
In the meantime...
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: autocadplease on November 05, 2009, 11:11:56 AM
Very nice, Jack! More photos please!
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 19, 2010, 12:57:32 PM
UPDATE UPDATE
I know...it is going slow but all parts start to line up and will eventually come together.
The big item were the 3/8" aluminum levers. Most shops asked around $300 to $400 to laser cut them. Finally a HVAC shop cut them today for $25. Worth being patient.
I can handle the finishing/polishing.
BTW: I will NOT use the 737 knobs  (+the fuel cutoffs) , They look too small for this design, selling the lot for $25 +ship.
The flaps and spoilers ones I 'll use.
(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc29%2Fjackpilot%2Fthrottle2.jpg&hash=617dfcbb3bbcbb7c8cc8dee65cb1180c6ff3c3a8)


Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: ivar hestnes on January 19, 2010, 01:03:52 PM
This looks great Jack. Very good job!

Btw, I will like to buy those knobs from you. I have some from Padraig with faults, so hopefully the ones you have is allright ;)
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: ivar hestnes on January 19, 2010, 01:11:01 PM
They look better than mine.

I will buy them from you.
I will send you my info in a PM  ;)
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Trevor Hale on January 19, 2010, 03:36:41 PM
Fantastic Jack..  Looks like waiting proved to be worthwhile.  Great stuff.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 20, 2010, 11:26:57 AM
Wednesday 3H30:

first rough lever..

Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Bob Reed on January 20, 2010, 11:50:42 AM
Very nice Jack. I am looking forward to watching this come together....
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Trevor Hale on January 20, 2010, 12:34:49 PM
Frigging Stunning.. I love it..  Good show, I can't wait to see it work out either.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: ivar hestnes on January 20, 2010, 12:35:28 PM
Absolutely top notch. This is looking good Jack. Keep it up
:)
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: when acting as a wave on January 20, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
That throttle arm is outstanding. Very nice!
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 20, 2010, 05:47:22 PM
Thank you guys.
Working with aluminum is not easy but rewarding.
Will post as it goes.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 21, 2010, 07:54:34 AM
Reversers with their mechanism...
When reversers are pulled back they lock into position and pulling again let the levers return to stowage position by spring action.

Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Trevor Hale on January 21, 2010, 08:16:18 AM
Did you borrow one of those from my screen door?  LOL.  Good usage of Hardware components to achieve such a task.  Ingenuity at its best.

Trev
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 21, 2010, 09:04:08 AM
Actually these are used for kitchen cabinet doors....hé hé hé !
I used them on my previous TQ and I bet they are good for several million cycles!
Add a microswitch and Voila!
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Boeing Skunk Works on January 21, 2010, 02:12:07 PM
Those are great looking parts. If I ever build another, I'm going to have someone cut mine too. I cut six identical pieces for the main throttle levers out of 1/8th aluminum with a jig saw.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 21, 2010, 05:32:24 PM
I tried jig-sawing, especially 3/8...disaster. I was close to buying a band saw but found that guy who cut it for peanuts. Well, I spent most part of today filing ,sanding ,steel wooling, but the results are worth it.
Actually alu is fun to work with.
Mike what you did is amazing, I can testify today!!!
Cheers Guys
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: autocadplease on January 21, 2010, 06:37:44 PM
Keep those pictures coming, Jack! Well done.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 26, 2010, 02:38:42 PM
Today's pic....
Good thing I do not put a value on my hours!!
I ordered two Clutches for friction. These can be used as a break and allow a very smooth action. Torque can be adjusted up to 13 pounds.
Very nice people:
http://www.polyclutch.com/polyclutch/mechanical-slip-clutches/slippers/ (http://www.polyclutch.com/polyclutch/mechanical-slip-clutches/slippers/)
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: phil744 on January 26, 2010, 03:39:36 PM
Wow i missed this one, Jack that looks stunning, very impressed, like the reverser mechanism, will keep that one in mind
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Boeing Skunk Works on January 26, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
Man those look great Jack! I mean really GREAT. I love the look of fine cut aluminum aviation parts. Almost like a work of art.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 26, 2010, 05:28:48 PM
Basically hand made...Tons of filing, sanding from coarse to fine and finishing with steel wool. After that it takes a lot of care to handle the parts for drilling or installing hardware...anyway lot of work lot of fun... Thanks mike.
Speedbrake and flaps lever are done, soon the TQ box will start, metal too.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Boeing Skunk Works on January 26, 2010, 06:45:34 PM
How much were those clutches? I think I'd have a problem trying to install one on the #2 throttle shaft. Please post pictures when you get the clutches mounted. I'm very interested.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: XOrionFE on January 27, 2010, 02:41:48 AM
Wow Jack.

That aluminum work looks incredible and the clutch idea is fantastic.   Can wait to see these in action!
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 27, 2010, 04:14:02 AM
Quote from: Boeing Skunk Works on January 26, 2010, 06:45:34 PM
How much were those clutches? I think I'd have a problem trying to install one on the #2 throttle shaft. Please post pictures when you get the clutches mounted. I'm very interested.

Mine came at $110 a pop. They have a wide array depending on torque, bore etc
Check the Polyclutch site and Drawings.
There is a guy there , Matt, very helpful. They can probably do custom too for your #2.
Anyway I'll report on that. Should get them next week.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Maurice on January 27, 2010, 06:55:42 AM
Quote from: jackpilot on January 26, 2010, 02:38:42 PM
Today's pic....
Good thing I do not put a value on my hours!!
I ordered two Clutches for friction. These can be used as a break and allow a very smooth action. Torque can be adjusted up to 13 pounds.
Very nice people:
http://www.polyclutch.com/polyclutch/mechanical-slip-clutches/slippers/ (http://www.polyclutch.com/polyclutch/mechanical-slip-clutches/slippers/)

I almost missed this post. That is a great find Jack. Wish I had known about that when I struggled with my TQ. Who knows, a re-build may be in the works soon (yeah right, over my dead body  :)

Maurice
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 27, 2010, 08:40:51 AM
Well the idea is not mine, here is the source (David Allen) and a very clever one....

http://www.737flightsim.com/FlapBrake/FlapBrake.html (http://www.737flightsim.com/FlapBrake/FlapBrake.html)
http://www.737flightsim.com/AutoThrottle/ClutchBrake.html (http://www.737flightsim.com/AutoThrottle/ClutchBrake.html)
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Kennair on January 31, 2010, 02:15:06 AM
Jack that 787 throttle looks remarkably like the 777.  Are they using the same style?

Beautiful work by the way.

Ken.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on January 31, 2010, 12:59:38 PM
You are right. Unless they change it on prod airplanes it is very similar, less the trim lever and some details.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Kennair on February 01, 2010, 02:42:18 AM
Well in light of that I have decided to build my 777 in grey!  I know the purists will shun me but I really prefer the grey over the brown, and looking at the 787 kind of confirmed my decision.  I also have 737 panels and avionics that I can use making it cheaper to move platforms.  Its also easier to find grey panels and hardware than brown. Anyway, I might be shot down for this decision but I'm always up for a fight :)

Ken.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on February 01, 2010, 04:38:13 AM
 YOU are the designer and it is Your airplane. Improving a Boeing design to fit your own taste is 100%OK . The 777 has a much cleaner and streamlined Instrument panel than the 737 and the 787 cockpit is grey too, so no prob!  ;D
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Kennair on February 01, 2010, 05:32:55 AM
Thanks Jack.  I also have Gwyn on board for the TQ and MIP build so expect some fairly unique things to come out of Aerosim Solutions very soon.

Ken.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Bob Reed on February 01, 2010, 05:55:25 AM
Hi Ken. Well one of things about building your own cockpit is you can build it the way you want! My cockpit has many of these "mods". I am building a "737" but my MCP is a 777, EFIS panels are real 747,why? It is what I had and real panels are so cool. I will switch them over at some point but I am in no rush to do so. They work and when I am flying and it is dark in the sim I can't see the brown or gray and I am concentrating on flying I can't "see" the difference. You know never once while I was flying an approach did I stop and shut the sim off and say  I can't do this the sim is just not right". In fact I usually say wow that was nice!!! 
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Kennair on February 01, 2010, 06:26:36 PM
Thanks Bob,  good advice.  I guess we can get bogged down in both authenticity and non-authenticity, the main thing is we have a cool sim at our disposal and flying is the aim.

Ken.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: scorpioflyer on February 12, 2010, 12:54:40 PM
Quote from: jackpilot on January 21, 2010, 09:04:08 AM
Actually these are used for kitchen cabinet doors....hé hé hé !
I used them on my previous TQ and I bet they are good for several million cycles!
Add a microswitch and Voila!

Jack

I have seen thrust reverse levers in operation on various heavy jets and they have quite a lot of travel from forward thrust all the way to full reverse thrust. It seems to me that you can't accomplish that with the hinges that you are using, unless a 737 system works differently. The hinges themselves have quite a lot of travel, but the way you have them bolted to the thrust levers arm seems to prevent that. Unless if they are not door hinges, but rather some other hardware that I can't think of.

Cheers
Antonio
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on February 12, 2010, 02:31:50 PM
Hi Antonio,
You are absolutely right.

(These things allow an angle of about 50° travel, more than enough to activate a microswitch!) They are bolted to the trottle arm and push/ pull the reverser arm via the little nylon roller that can be seen on the pics.
Most Boeing TQs have been keeping the same ergonomics since the days when all these levers actuated heavy mechanical systems, hence the wide travel of the 737 reversers.
Not needed today. And BTW on the 787, and 777, TQ reversers positions are very close to what I did.(or the other way around..lol)
My TQ is not a faithfull copy of anything real...just inspired by the 787
Cheers.
JP
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: phil744 on February 12, 2010, 08:11:24 PM
Jack, you have anything to do with this??

(https://www.cockpitbuilders.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi735.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww358%2Fsimvionics%2Fjack-the-lad.jpg&hash=e8e3748ea73243ddbfc9ad905031f3ad4f636609)
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on February 12, 2010, 09:02:43 PM
Negative...This is definitely a 787.
I had never seen the innards but this shows that they (like me...!lol) have distinct modules and that the Power levers are independent of the two others, ie flaps and speedbrake...comforting hey!
Where did U get that??
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: scorpioflyer on February 15, 2010, 07:43:54 AM
Quote from: jackpilot on February 12, 2010, 02:31:50 PM
Hi Antonio,
You are absolutely right.

(These things allow an angle of about 50° travel, more than enough to activate a microswitch!) They are bolted to the trottle arm and push/ pull the reverser arm via the little nylon roller that can be seen on the pics.
Most Boeing TQs have been keeping the same ergonomics since the days when all these levers actuated heavy mechanical systems, hence the wide travel of the 737 reversers.
Not needed today. And BTW on the 787, and 777, TQ reversers positions are very close to what I did.(or the other way around..lol)
My TQ is not a faithfull copy of anything real...just inspired by the 787
Cheers.
JP

Jack:

I am not very familiar with new technology aircraft. I used to fly 747,s DC-8's and L1011,s as a Flight Engineer, and indeed the degree of travel of the thrust reverse levers was quite high. I remember that on an L1011 you had to bring the levers to just about the full vertical position in order to get full reverse.
However great ingenuity on your part. Keep up the great work.

Antonio
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on February 15, 2010, 09:52:39 AM
Even on the 737, it has a long travel.
I will not make the reversers activate an axis, they will be full on or off. Good enough for  a simulator, as once you have safely landed the plane on the numbers or not far beyond, the rest is pure eye/ear candy.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Boeing Skunk Works on February 15, 2010, 10:48:44 AM
Quote from: scorpioflyer on February 15, 2010, 07:43:54 AM
Quote from: jackpilot on February 12, 2010, 02:31:50 PM
Hi Antonio,
You are absolutely right.

(These things allow an angle of about 50° travel, more than enough to activate a microswitch!) They are bolted to the trottle arm and push/ pull the reverser arm via the little nylon roller that can be seen on the pics.
Most Boeing TQs have been keeping the same ergonomics since the days when all these levers actuated heavy mechanical systems, hence the wide travel of the 737 reversers.
Not needed today. And BTW on the 787, and 777, TQ reversers positions are very close to what I did.(or the other way around..lol)
My TQ is not a faithfull copy of anything real...just inspired by the 787
Cheers.
JP

Jack:

I am not very familiar with new technology aircraft. I used to fly 747,s DC-8's and L1011,s as a Flight Engineer, and indeed the degree of travel of the thrust reverse levers was quite high. I remember that on an L1011 you had to bring the levers to just about the full vertical position in order to get full reverse.
However great ingenuity on your part. Keep up the great work.

Antonio

It's the same for the 727. Straight up and down for full reverse.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Sam Franklin on September 29, 2013, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: jackpilot on January 26, 2010, 02:38:42 PM
Today's pic....
Good thing I do not put a value on my hours!!
I ordered two Clutches for friction. These can be used as a break and allow a very smooth action. Torque can be adjusted up to 13 pounds.
Very nice people:
http://www.polyclutch.com/polyclutch/mechanical-slip-clutches/slippers/ (http://www.polyclutch.com/polyclutch/mechanical-slip-clutches/slippers/)

Sorry to reanimate an old thread. I just wanted to know how you attached the lever. I can find these type: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Latch-Push-Catch-Kitchen-Cabinet-Door-To-Open-Touch-wardrobe-units-Free-screws-/200966659911?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Cabinets_Cupboards_MJ&hash=item2eca8bdf47 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Latch-Push-Catch-Kitchen-Cabinet-Door-To-Open-Touch-wardrobe-units-Free-screws-/200966659911?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Cabinets_Cupboards_MJ&hash=item2eca8bdf47) but they need to fit inside each thrust lever so could I take off the screw plate and hot-glue the catch the the thrust lever? Ideas appreciated.
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on September 29, 2013, 02:03:33 PM
Hot glue will not hold . they have to be attached with tiny bolts/nuts
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Sam Franklin on September 29, 2013, 09:43:55 PM
Quote from: jackpilot on September 29, 2013, 02:03:33 PM
Hot glue will not hold . they have to be attached with tiny bolts/nuts

Did you adapt the push to open latch so that the bolt was at the side?
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: jackpilot on September 30, 2013, 04:10:15 AM
I made the best I could figure out at the time.
You have to work with what you get and adapt it to your own systems.
This is not an exact science   :D

Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Maurice on September 30, 2013, 04:51:53 AM
Quote from: jackpilot on September 30, 2013, 04:10:15 AM

This is not an exact science   :D

I always thought flight deck building was the same as paint by numbers. No wonder I got so frustrated and finally quit  ;D

Maurice
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Sam Franklin on September 30, 2013, 06:48:05 AM
Quote from: jackpilot on September 30, 2013, 04:10:15 AM
I made the best I could figure out at the time.
You have to work with what you get and adapt it to your own systems.
This is not an exact science   :D

Well I'm going to order some and give it a go! Thanks for your help again - how to I give you some rep?
Title: Re: 787 throttle for 737
Post by: Joe Lavery on October 02, 2013, 03:13:50 AM
It is like painting by numbers Maurice, unfortunately someone keeps changing the numbers...  ::)

Joe.