If you guys are monitoring the Prosim happenings over in their forum, I just made a post that should liven things up a bit. I'm hoping to entice Marty and his band of merry men to shift their next version into supporting XP10.
I for one am ready to give up the ghost on MSFS. I've been with it since the beginning but damn... buying the components to build my new system today got me thinking that I am basically building one of the most powerful systems that can be built commercially to fly a three year old version of a simulator that isn't being developed anymore... knowing that I still will not be able to max it out.
WTH people... It isn't going to get better. If I can convince Marty to go X-Plane, I'm joining Scott. Just think what X-Plane would look like with my new system! Unfortunately, I can only think it as I can't get the demo to run on my laptop... stupid onboard intel graphics.
What are your thoughts?
Not too burst your bubble, But your not going to max out xplane 10 either. With high setting and HDR enabled its going to bring your system to its knees. Its still going to be a compromise as for whatever reason the sim developers are still building for systems that will be available years down the road. Austin included.
Gary
I hear you Gary. X-Plane does have one thing going for it though... it is still being developed. Less than a year ago, there was no 64-bit support for X-plane. Now there is.
Who knows what's next?
Yep that's true, but the ongoing development is causing other problems as well. I had warpalizer working fine until one of the updates broke it. Now it doesn't work in 32 or 64bit and and to fix it would either require buying new warping software as the 2.35 opengl version is no longer supported and there is no free updates from warpalizer, or rolling back to the version that worked with its inherent issues. I don't see the point of doing either.
Gary
I guess we just can't win.
That adds strength to my argument though. All the software companies that are still writing to support FSX need to begin writing to support X-Plane instead. Maybe it's time?
I don't hold out that P3D is going to replace FSX. That only leaves X-Plane and some smaller companies that are dabbling. it would stand to reason that at some point FSX will no longer be viable. What will the current companies do to survive then?
When Austin stops moving the goal posts and one doesn't need to cross fingers and hope that something isn't broken with each update. Its definitely better than in the past and getting better. However consumers have little patience for that. I just got bitten and I wont be giving xp10 a second look.
Right now the developers follow the consumers as its what pays but it should be the 3rd party developers driving the xplane franchise much the same as it did with Microsoft. What xplane needs is a strong solid build that will be in place for a substantial amount of time for which the 3rd party guys can really get to grips with and bring some excellent addons to the table. Consumers will go where the best eye candy is. Unfortunately we all know that as soon as xplane 10 is final, The xplane 11 circus will start again, never giving the previous version the time, support and growth from the addon community that it thoroughly deserves.
Gary
If ProSim gets a stable build for xplane, I'm willing to give it a try. I'll just throw the extra PC I have in the basement out there for the third one. Guess I'll hang onto my GTX 275's for a future experiment.
Quote from: fsaviator on January 20, 2013, 10:18:31 AM
If I can convince Marty to go X-Plane, I'm joining Scott. Just think what X-Plane would look like with my new system! Unfortunately, I can only think it as I can't get the demo to run on my laptop... stupid onboard intel graphics.
What are your thoughts?
Not so fast there Warren. Before joining Scott, you will need 2 more high end PCs like the one you just bought if you still want wraparound visuals. You can't have XP with undocked windows like you can in FSX.
Anyway, maybe you already know that but this is just a reminder not to get too excited about XP unless you are prepared to invest in more PC hardware.
Maurice
I don't think FSX is that bad as far as performance at all.
I have seen it running beautifully on current i7's with very HIGH settings.
I know Ill get slammed now, but the TH2Go people who slam FSX when running 3 or 4 windows, are really not being fair/honest with FSX. I doubt XP10 would run smooth with 4 windows running! ;) (yes I know it cant, that's why I have 4 visual comps :P )
Nat
I think we can all argue the xplane FSX situation. I'm just going to honestly say my findings here as i have been snowed in the house since Friday so I have given xplane all weekend against my history of flying with FSX.
Firstly my system is an i5 with 8gig of ram and a gtx570. I use 3 of these driving one view each.
I run FSX with a huge amount of scenery across Europe and with lots of photo VFR scenery at max sliders and I get over 20fps. This is with Rex as well.
Ok so onto xplane. I have been using it on and off since it came out but not really too much. I use the beta updates and have found the constant development and updates not an issue. Ok some plugins don't work with 64bit but the good news is that all of these plugins are being developed still so will move to 64bit. I totally understand developers moaning about the goalposts moving but my view is that's utter shit! Most of the sceneries I have downloaded were developed for xplane9 or in some cases 8 and guess what they work fine in 10 with all the lighting etc! I certainly don't believe developers as aerosoft have constantly lied through their teeth on xplane!
Anyway back to the subject in hand. I installed some high spec photoscenery into xplane and comparing this to FSX I was amazed! Xplane produced clear pinpoint images all the way to the horizon. FSX blurs out quite quickly and is always reloading images, xplane doesn't.
The night lighting in xplane is so realistic and FSX again can't compare. I use HDR on and notice it doesn't take too much out of my frame rates. This being said on the 32bit version of xplane it did impact on them but 64bit doesn't and the HDR does look amazing.
Next to vatsim. I installed xsquawkbox and it worked perfectly. Although I had to run 32bit as the current build of xsquawkbox doesn't run with 64bit (again due to be released soon) I find squawk box in FSX with sim connect a nightmare. And I must admit once setup in FSX it works perfectly but it's an arse to get right and for me it never works first time. Again just my experiences.
Xpuipc I downloaded the latest build on the site so not sure if that is the latest one as I heard on here that there was a newer version for simvionics? Anyway I tested project magenta and this worked perfect and again first time.
Flight dynamics were not even close Xplane is awesome for this. I know we have argued this on here before but just my thoughts. And considering the stuff I have flown in the real world i trust myself on that one.
Next sloping runways! I'm biased here as my home airport Bristol (eggd) is famous for its sloping runway so I love the fact xplane has this. It makes you think about approaches. This said though on flat airports seeing the slight slopes does make it seem realistic especially at night with the taxi lights etc?
Also I notice that my i5 never ever goes over 50% usage when running xplane whereas FSX is maxed at 100% on all cores using the affinity mask mod.
Ok so add on scenery. Firstly freeware. There is millions of stuff on x-plane.org some of it I admit is shit but some of it is as good as some FSX payware. Just checkout Tenerife for one! The thing I do like though as said above is that older scenery for previous versions works. Plus installing is just dropping the folder into the custom scenery folder and it just works straight away.
Payware I decided to buy a highly detailed aerosoft scenery of Lugano and must say its amazing. FSX in my view still is best in his area as the choice in FSX is stunning and AES etc tops it gain. Plus the simple fact that FSX will be the king of payware to come! Just look at the aerosoft previews forum! Their next 20 releases will all be FSX and nothing for xplane.
Finally Addon aircraft (payware) I downloaded the CRJ200 and systems wise and detail wise it's up there with some PMDG products, again though FSX wins for choice here although Xplane does make up for it in the dynamics portion.
So as I said this is my findings with my system and not an argument into what's best as I love FSX just like I loved FS9 and my god the choice of everything with MSFS is brilliant. But my conclusion is.....
For me and my system with my goals of what I want to get out of flight simming it has to be xplane!! The standard clouds/lighting/weather is better than anything REX can offer and performance is around 50% better with higher detail than FSX. I gave xplane 3 solid days to convince me and although there are downfalls compared to FSX the rest of the things xplane has to offer completely outweighs this. X-plane.org is tougher to navigate than avsim and flight sim.com etc and it takes awhile to find all the freeware scenery sites etc but I remember going from FS98 to FS9 was the same!
I love the FSX setups I see out there and a lot make me wish I had that myself and agin I want to state I'm not starting a xplane v FSX arguement I just wanted to state the facts I found with my system which to be fair is a good system but not the best! I also feel as computers get bigger and better xplane will take advantage whereas FSXwont.
But hey I'm sure when P3D 2.0 comes out we will all have another thing to compare!! :)
Rhys b
Nice summary Rhys.
When I get a chance and XUIPC 64 is out, Ill give XP10 a real go.
Ill most likely keep both platforms and fire up either as I feel the need :)
Nat
Quote from: melnato on January 20, 2013, 02:01:18 PM
Nice summary Rhys.
When I get a chance and XUIPC 64 is out, Ill give XP10 a real go.
Ill most likely keep both platforms and fire up either as I feel the need :)
Nat
Nat, no probs just lock yourself away from FSX for a few days and clear your mind :)
If you want advice on scenery etc just ask and il send you a list of the freeware I have. In some cases it's as good as the orbx you use so this will help you give it a fair test as I can see from your great videos that this is what you use.
Rhys b
Just playing devils advocate here, Austin is going all in against that company that is suing him. If he losses X-Plane is gone.... Just a thought.....
Oh sorry one thing I forgot...
As its snowing here at the moment the weather effects for snow/rain/hail etc as well as the on runway effects are brilliant in xplane. Where is does fall down though is the fact that xplane does not have winter textures. FSX beats it there although as I said I use photoscenery in FSX anyway which never has winter textures either but the defaults textures would show snow.
Some third party Add ons do add snow but I have yet to try this.
Rhys b
Quote from: Bob Reed on January 20, 2013, 02:13:35 PM
Just playing devils advocate here, Austin is going all in against that company that is suing him. If he losses X-Plane is gone.... Just a thought.....
Would be interesting indeed Bob but I guess then those developers would get what they want in a product not being developed? The third party stuff would still be developed up to a point but As far as I have been made aware Aerosoft have rights to produce copies of x-plane so buying it would not stop?
But hey it's all guessing at the mo.
Very good point though Bob!!!
QuoteIn some cases it's as good as the orbx you use so this will help you give it a fair test as I can see from your great videos that this is what you use.
Thanks Rhys.
That's the hardest part for me....I live down under and ORBX covers the whole country and a lot of the International airports I love so much.... :'(
In theory is Ill use XP10 for pure "flying" and FSX for a "ORBX Airport Fix"
Nat
Quote from: melnato on January 20, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
QuoteIn some cases it's as good as the orbx you use so this will help you give it a fair test as I can see from your great videos that this is what you use.
Thanks Rhys.
That's the hardest part for me....I live down under and ORBX covers the whole country and a lot of the International airports I love so much.... :'(
In theory is Ill use XP10 for pure "flying" and FSX for a "ORBX Airport Fix"
Nat
Personally I hope Austin has a really good lawyer and beats these vultures to a pulp. But only time will tell!
Quote from: melnato on January 20, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
QuoteIn some cases it's as good as the orbx you use so this will help you give it a fair test as I can see from your great videos that this is what you use.
Thanks Rhys.
That's the hardest part for me....I live down under and ORBX covers the whole country and a lot of the International airports I love so much.... :'(
In theory is Ill use XP10 for pure "flying" and FSX for a "ORBX Airport Fix"
Nat
there is a team working on Australian airports and scenery, I will install some tomorrow and upload a video
Now we're talking. Stimulating conversation!
Mau, I know about the views in X-Plane. Computers I have... I'm not so sure I need to have i7's running all three views though. I'm willing to bet, and Scott, step in if I'm wrong, that since you are using one computer per screen, and taking advantage of all cores, you won't need near top of the line to have respectable views. Hell, my current system will run FSX very well on one screen.
The point is to get the developers to start looking at the alternatives so that we have some options.
Quotethere is a team working on Australian airports and scenery, I will install some tomorrow and upload a video
ORBX Stuff? Very Cool....any links?
Nat
Quote from: fsaviator on January 20, 2013, 02:54:07 PM
Now we're talking. Stimulating conversation!
Mau, I know about the views in X-Plane. Computers I have... I'm not so sure I need to have i7's running all three views though. I'm willing to bet, and Scott, step in if I'm wrong, that since you are using one computer per screen, and taking advantage of all cores, you won't need near top of the line to have respectable views. Hell, my current system will run FSX very well on one screen.
The point is to get the developers to start looking at the alternatives so that we have some options.
Unfortunately Warren you still need high end computers. Even with my 3 computers running i7s with 6 cores each and 16 gig of ram each if I turn up rendering full bore in xplane 10 I can still bring it to its knees. That said, my video cards are nvidia gtx 560ti type and I probably can upgrade those at some point in the future and get better since x-plane takes advantage of GPUs and video ram.
Scott
I'll also play devil's advocate and say that X-Plane would not be my choice.
I've played with it and I was less than impressed.
With the add-on scenery I use, X-Plane is not on the horizon. They are not alone as I don't see any other add-on manifacturers even talking about X-plane at alone support.
If I were happy to fly with the supplied X-plane scenery (how wonderful is the US....how crap is anywhere else in the world?) and no other add-ons then maybe it would have a shot.
I want to use my add-on scenery (like Nat, I fly the Ozzie routes, Melbourne to Brissie, etc.) and I want a fair amount of reality.
FSX still has that and as an alternative, P3D's new version 2.0 (isn't that supposed to be 64 bit?) might extend those goalposts.
Who knows what the future holds, but my money is staying with what is being developed for, now.
Frank Cooper
Quote from: melnato on January 20, 2013, 03:37:43 PM
Quotethere is a team working on Australian airports and scenery, I will install some tomorrow and upload a video
ORBX Stuff? Very Cool....any links?
Nat
Nat,
I have added a couple of links in the xplane scenery post. Not Quite ORBX quality but for freeware it's excellent.
Rhys B
Thanks Rhys.
Screen shots look great...looking forward to testing it out next month I hope!
Nat
Quote from: tennyson on January 21, 2013, 12:19:19 AM
I'll also play devil's advocate and say that X-Plane would not be my choice.
I've played with it and I was less than impressed.
With the add-on scenery I use, X-Plane is not on the horizon. They are not alone as I don't see any other add-on manifacturers even talking about X-plane at alone support.
If I were happy to fly with the supplied X-plane scenery (how wonderful is the US....how crap is anywhere else in the world?) and no other add-ons then maybe it would have a shot.
I want to use my add-on scenery (like Nat, I fly the Ozzie routes, Melbourne to Brissie, etc.) and I want a fair amount of reality.
FSX still has that and as an alternative, P3D's new version 2.0 (isn't that supposed to be 64 bit?) might extend those goalposts.
Who knows what the future holds, but my money is staying with what is being developed for, now.
Frank Cooper
hello Frank,
Don't know if you missed the post we made on X-Plane scenery but there is a ton available and more being developed all the time. http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3032.msg23934;topicseen#new (http://www.cockpitbuilders.com/community/index.php?topic=3032.msg23934;topicseen#new)
Don't discount it yet. Also, if you just "play" with x-plane a little you will not get to appreciate all it has to offer. You have to really sync your teeth into it for a bit. Mike Leavy will tell you as a type rated 737 pilot that it flys the closest to the real deal as you can get in a simulation. The night flying in x-plane stock out of the box blows FSX and prepared clean out of the water no matter what addon you put into them. Airports are growing and to say that addon scenery developers are not making scenery or supporting x-plane is just not true. It takes time and with x-plane 64 just out recently this is really a new world for developers to go nuts in. You mention a 64 bit version of Prepar3d and I am wondering if you could post a link to where you saw that as it sounds interesting.
Now the one thing that is a deal breaker for X-plane for some of you is that Prosim737 does not support it and it seems any developement towards that end died around October last year. Now Prosim is going into other aircraft without finishing all the development needed in the 737 yet and doubling their price. We'll see if they ever do anything for X-Plane in the future but if not then for sure 737 cockpit builders on Prosim won't be running X-Plane. Now for those running Sim-Avionics, you're in luck because it works great with X-Plane 10 and so does XPUIPC which also has XPUIPC 64 bit in development and my guess is it won't be long until it is available to all. 64 bit is a game changer folks. It means all this money we invest into with our hardware can really be taken advantage of.
My bet is that scenery and much more further development on X-Plane will follow and grow. Just takes a little patience.
Scott
One other note on X-Plane that is not obvious to everyone just dabbling with it a day or two then shelving it is that in the back end there is a ton of powerful tools. When you start looking into the Datarefs there is soooo much available as far as parameters for cockpit builders that are tweak able and expand greatly what one can achieve. Planemaker unlocks so many functions and is so easy to use. For those making turboprops like the Kingair, X-Plane CORRECTLY models the prop functions, reverse/beta range handling etc which is not possible in FSx or Prepar3d (if you are a turbo prop simmer in FSX or P3d you are really missing out...).
Another positive of X-plane that may not be well known is that it is super easy to back up and move to other computers. Just copy the X-Plane folder. That's it. No reinstallation needed. Can't do that with FSX or P3d.....
On a couple scenery notes in X-plane.... First of all the lighting is unbelievable. Looks the closest to real world I have ever seen including anything REX can dish out. Sun and sky are just amazing especially with 64 bit and HDR turned on. Last night I was sitting at the hold short of 32L at ORD and in night time and I looked out to my left down at the runway lighting and could see the little light housings embedded in the runway protruding slightly above the surface including the little plate and screws on top of the housing while seeing the glow of light coming out the side lense. Utterly amazing. Sounds stupid but taxi around a light pole! See the lighting effects and shadow details. Then taking off and watching the traffic flow of actual individual little cars and trucks on the free way with red tail lights moving away from you and headlights coming toward you that when passing under bridges actually disappear beneath them while reflection of headlights on pavement still showing out from under the bridge. Yep, Xplane scenery is pretty bad alright...hmmm..
again, you really need to open up and look under the hood with x-plane in order to reveal its wonders and possibilities. Take the time to really explore it thoroughly and you might just rethink your simming world as I did and a few others have here.
Scott
Scott,
I stand corrected. I had no idea that developers were making scenery for X-Plane.
As for the 64 bit version of P3D, I was referring to the future plans of P3D. I'm pretty sure I've read of their intent to do so in the coming future, either on the P3D forum or somewhere else.
I've got a copy of P3D and I loded it and ran it for some time, but I couldn't see enough difference between it and FSX, so I changed back.
As I said, I love flying the coastal routes of Australia, especially with the ORBX scenery, so I can't see anything coming along too soon that will fill that void for me.
Frank Cooper
Scott,
Well summed up!
if you are going to give xplane a fair crack at the whip run it constant for a week or a few days with no FSX go and get some of the best freeware scenery for it and enjoy.
Also xplane fully simulates icing as well. FSX can draw textures on a virtual cockpit etc but doesn't model how this affects an aircraft in flight etc.
Frank, take a look at the 2 freeware Aussie airports I posted in the xplane scenery thread they are only freeware!!
Lol, Scott you should write the cover review for X-plane packaging ;D
Have to agree on the night lighting, along with water reflections. Seeing dawn or dusk sunshine glistening over the water is amazingly real and low flying over city areas last time I saw a police car with lights a blazing racing down the freeway! It's only missing the siren noise (which you wouldn't hear in a real cockpit anyway).
As to which is better FSX, XP10 or P3D, its always going to be up to the individual but it sure is great to have a choice. I do think however that using a PC per view changes the game entirely for any of the platforms and takes it into another league altogether.
Ken.
BTW - to be totally fair and show that I am not fully biased toward x-plane, on my GA sim I have all the Orbx scenery which I think is the best out there bar none for FSX along with most of the Aerosoft airports. I love flying in Orbx with my Flight1 C182 and Flight1tech/emuteq G1000s. Perfect setup for GA and a TH2Go 3 monitor setup.
I love that we have choices.
As for X-plane suit, it would be nice if everyone could go to their site and support Austin against these thugs trying to bleed money with frivolous unfounded lawsuits by signing his petition. Whether an Xplane fan or not we all need to help protect these developers with our strong unified voices!
Scott
Quote from: XOrionFE on January 21, 2013, 04:49:03 AM
BTW - to be totally fair and show that I am not fully biased toward x-plane, on my GA sim I have all the Orbx scenery which I think is the best out there bar none for FSX along with most of the Aerosoft airports. I love flying in Orbx with my Flight1 C182 and Flight1tech/emuteq G1000s. Perfect setup for GA and a TH2Go 3 monitor setup.
I love that we have choices.
As for X-plane suit, it would be nice if everyone could go to their site and support Austin against these thugs trying to bleed money with frivolous unfounded lawsuits by signing his petition. Whether an Xplane fan or not we all need to help protect these developers with our strong unified voices!
Scott
I hear you, Scott. I'm the same on the scenery... not a day goes by I don't regret getting rid of my Piper sim. I do miss flying low and slow over nice scenery.
As for the petition, already signed
Having had a chance to fly Scott's sim with Xplane 64bit I'll +1 him, and say it really is amazing visually, the colors, lighting, fluidity and detail make my P3D look cartoonish.
Until I get time to upgrade 2 more machines, I'll be stuck with P3D :)
Then again, I could go fly it stretched screen across 3 as I have it loaded on my GA pit in the basement.
I think its fair to say that xplane 10 has a lot of great features, looks nice, fly's nice. For me it isn't even about the lack of scenery as with HDR enabled the sim looked fantastic.
But what good is all that when you cant even get the latest version in 32 or 64 bit to project onto a curved screen with $$ warping software that works flawlessly in any other program without having to put your hand in your pocket once again to purchase updated software ?
I gave it a shot. A good shot. Alot of us are using projection on curved screens so I ask: What version of xplane are you using, what warping software are you using and does it work?
Gary
hello Gary,
I had no problems with warping and looked great with projection at 1920x1080. I just had projector problems with bad pixels so switched to TVs. I ran on both FlyElise and Nthusim and neither had issues with X-Plane so not sure why you think there is a problem.
Scott
Thanks Scott, good to know.
Is anybody else then having issues with the warpalizer plugin not working?
Gary
Hey Scott,
Just so you know, you can get proportional reverse on jets and turboprops in FSX. Just have to set it up right. ;)
Quote from: 727737Nut on January 21, 2013, 10:49:58 AM
Hey Scott,
Just so you know, you can get proportional reverse on jets and turboprops in FSX. Just have to set it up right. ;)
Please share
yes, please share. I have never been able to and researched it pretty heavily. Especially turbo probs. Everything I ever read about it in FSX said forget about...its broken. I had the PMDG J41 and even in their documentation they say it is near impossible to make it perfect because FSX lacks the right code to handle it.
Scott
Not sure what the program is doing, but when I pull up one reverser is show a proportional input on my MiP
I talked to Scott on the phone, all I did was set up my real 737 TQ as follows, using fsuipc, full throttle was +16383, Idle was your 2 center boxes, and full reverse was the other box. This gave me proportional reverse in FSX everytime with any Jet.
Rob